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jsahara24
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# Posted: 8 May 2020 09:03am - Edited by: jsahara24
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Glad to hear you were able to save her life, my grandmother had a stroke 2 years ago and its been a tough road since. I wish you all the best in her recovery!
Quoting: ICC Because they knew there were not enough to allow everyone to wear a mask and still have enough for the medical personnel. Nothing more sinister than that.
You're OK being lied to by your government? I struggle with this.
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ICC
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# Posted: 8 May 2020 10:39am
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Quoting: jsahara24 You're OK being lied to by your government? I struggle with this.
I never said I'm OK with that. Sometimes, my entire thought does not come across the way I write it. Thank you for the query.
NO, I am not OK with that. I was simply pointing out that we were being lied to out of a matter of convenience by the federal government. I probably should not have added the sinister comment, as being lied to by your government is about as bad as it gets and it seems to be happening a lot in recent years. But at the time the federal government originally said there was no need to wear a mask I believe that IF masks had been stockpiled in large numbers, they would have recommended wearing a mask.
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 8 May 2020 12:52pm
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Quoting: ICC I never said I'm OK with that. Sometimes, my entire thought does not come across the way I write it. Thank you for the query.
Ok, we are on the same page with this one...Frustrating for sure no matter how they want to justify it.
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hattie
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# Posted: 8 May 2020 01:16pm
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darz5150: I hope your Mom makes a full recovery. She is fortunate to have you jumping in to help!!
I agree we must all look after ourselves. Living where we live we learned a very long time ago that if you wait for help you'll be dead before it arrives. I believe in watching the news, reading reports and sifting through everything to find the facts. Based upon what I feel is truthful, I will act.
My step-son is an ER nurse. When I told him I was quite concerned about this new virus (back in early March) he laughed at me and said it was the flu. He changed his tune pretty quick after that.
Later when I told my step-son we were wearing masks when we went into the "beyond" (translation = any place other than home), he laughed at me and said it wouldn't do anything. He called me a couple days later to say we need to wear a mask.
I'm not a rocket scientist, but I can read and listen to news. I think I am smart enough to separate the garbage from the truth. I will always do what I believe is needed to be done and, so far, it has worked pretty well for us.
It is much easier to do nothing and then complain later if something bad happens - but that won't fix the bad things that have already happened. It takes work to think things through, stock up on supplies (medical and food) and decide what the best path for YOU is.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 8 May 2020 04:26pm
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Quoting: hattie It is much easier to do nothing and then complain later if something bad happens - but that won't fix the bad things that have already happened. It takes work to think things through, stock up on supplies (medical and food) and decide what the best path for YOU is.
That Is soooooo true.
I have always been a believer in the saying.
You can make things happen.
Sit and watch things happen.
Or wonder, what the hell happened?
I have probably said this hundreds of times.
Noah didn't wait for the rain before he built the Ark.
Luckily I was able to built my Ark years ago.
I wish the best for everyone. This too shall pass.
Hopefully sooner than later. 
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ICC
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# Posted: 9 May 2020 03:35pm
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A good read.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 11 May 2020 10:38pm
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I'm skeptical of anyone who says life will never be the same again. Will it be different? Maybe. But, they're saying it as if different can't be better.
Switching subjects - do you believe the virus originated in nature, or from the Wuhan lab? I believe it was an accidental release from the lab. To me, it comes down to probability - when you think about all the variables, it points overwhelmingly to an accidental release. It's not possible to PROVE it originated in nature, and you can't trust anything China tells you.
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ICC
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# Posted: 11 May 2020 11:32pm
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Nature.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 11 May 2020 11:55pm - Edited by: darz5150
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Quoting: spencerin I'm skeptical of anyone who says life will never be the same again
If you saw my last previous posts. I can honestly say, that my life will probably never be the same again.
The denial of basic/required health care is what pisses me off the most.
This happened earlier today. A friend of mine called me. He has a pacemaker, and a not so good cardiac resume'.
He thought he was having a heart attack. Got to the ER entrance, and was met by fully decked out police officers. They blocked him, and said can I help you? He said. No, get outta my way! I didn't get robbed!#@&?! I think I'm having a HEART ATTACK!
Is this how its gonna be?
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 12 May 2020 09:29am
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Nature... having lived in China for 6 years, I am well aware of how "face" means everything to the Chinese people and especially the government. It is all about how it looks. So yes, it is hard, if not impossible to trust the information coming from the Chinese government. We found there were things about their history that we knew more about than the people themselves...l they only know what they are told.
All that said, I have walked through and even shopped at these wet markets.... Wuhan is certainly not the only city to have them.... the conditions there, by western standards, are appalling! The opportunity for cross contamination is ripe. And, this is not the first "bug" to be traced back to a wet market.
I wonder as well.... there are theories out there by researchers supporting manufactured and natural. I have read many from both sides. But for me, and only my opinion, I cannot imagine a lab producing a biological weapon without first having a way to neutralize it for their own people. If it is to be believed that China had less than 4,000 deaths (I do not believe this at all) then possibly they did have a way to neutralize the bug.... but there is no way that would have not gone public.
Natural.
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spencerin
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# Posted: 13 May 2020 06:44am
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An accidental release doesn't necessarily mean the virus was purposefully genetically-engineered. The lab had/has been studying coronaviruses in bats for years. I think they were messing around with a strain of the virus for research purposes only, and it emerged from the lab either by infecting a person in the lab or by surface transmission.
The wet market conditions are unequivocally appalling. But, when you think about the near-infinite number of human-to-animal interactions that have occurred at wet markets all over the world over time, what are the chances that this virus *coincidentally* emerges from a wet market 2 miles from a lab that's also studying the same virus? That probability alone has to be as close to zero as you can get, and when you consider what else we know, including the fact that it can't be *proven* the virus originated from the wet market, random chance seems impossible.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 13 May 2020 08:41am
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Possible
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Brettny
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# Posted: 26 May 2020 11:06am
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Quoting: hattie It is much easier to do nothing and then complain later if something bad happens - but that won't fix the bad things that have already happened. It takes work to think things through, stock up on supplies (medical and food) and decide what the best path for YOU is.
Well said! In times like this you may be the only person you can rely on.
About 2 months ago living 2hr from NYC and working on public transit that goes in and out of NYC. My job is essential, I had a choice to make when I saw the company doing nothing and the cases getting worse. Let's just say today was my first day at work for 2 months.
Some times not having loans and money in the bank is the best help..especially in this situations. Many of my co workers have family members who are no longer with us.
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paulz
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 10:26am
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Just thought I'd check in and see how you guys are doing, since, y'know, I need you..
Crazy times. Large protest groups in the middle of a pandemic.. Anyway, not much has changed around here. I have been tested 2-3 times, all negative. In fact, despite the large numbers, I don't personally know anyone who has died, gotten sick or even tested positive. But it is happening.
It's difficult not to become complacent after all this time and ditch the mask sometimes around friends etc..
Hope everyone else here is managing.
Reliable vaccine coming? Sure hope so.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 10:53am
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Why where you tested?
We know 4 people who tested positive in the last 4 weeks. One got s test just because she was there with her BF and his job mandates he get tested. One felt fine and had a fever, and her BF also tested positive. One in FL who paid $150 for the test.
I'm starting to thing these positive/deaths cases are oddly high in NY. Now NYC has started road blocks for out of state people.
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paulz
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 11:50am
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I'm a volunteer fireman and EMR, mandated. My wife got tested too last time, just 'cause she was with me. She also has only one arm and can't go 5 minutes without holding something in her teeth.
The chief of the county department (whom I don't know personally) tested positive way back when but has never had symptoms. His wife was positive, got sick and recovered. That's really the only case I know of other than news reports. The retirement homes have been hit hard of course.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 12:07pm
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These 4 people had minimal to no symptoms. The people who I know got it months ago said they where laid out and didnt get out of bed for 5+ days.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 02:00pm - Edited by: darz5150
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My mom died June 5th. Not from the virus. But because of the restrictions. She had a pacemaker put in. Was recovering well. Then they put her in a nursing home. Locked her down as per the covid rules.
We called every day. She cried, begging us to come see her. She wanted to hug my dad. Her husband for 60 + years. They wouldn't allow it.
She was alive and doing well, until they locked her in solitary confinement. She died alone from a broken heart.
The death certificate listed cause of death as Natural Causes. I don't think so.
Yet the next day on the news. Her death was added to the covid death toll.
I agree. My mom is dead, not from the virus. But because of the virus!!
Absolute over reach. Bullshit.
My story is only 1 of many.
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paulz
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 02:05pm
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Geez Darz, that's brutal. So sorry.
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ICC
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 02:37pm
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I now know 3 people who died from covid19 in the hospital, on ventilators. And about 10 or so who have been mildly ill to "can't seem to get energy or strength back" after 4 to 6 weeks. Plus hundreds more who seem to be fine, no symptoms and no tests because they have no signs and tests are still not for everyone in NM because their are priorities.
Most of the ill and all the deaths I mentioned were in the Navajo nation. But two nurses I know are working hard in their ICU sections of their hospitals. Their reports are not pretty; real ordinary people are dying.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 02:56pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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This virus was just another low probability, high consequence threat. Unfortunately even when the risk around someone seems low, people need to focus on the potential consequences of being wrong. Like a small overlooked or untended crack in a dam. Total dam failure is probably pretty low however ignore it at great risk. (Beirut just learned that lesson. Some unbelievably moronic thinking occurred there.)
Riddle of the coronavirus superspreaders who infect hundredsWhy do some people pass the disease on to many, when others infect nobody? July 24 2020, The Times “ Then, a month in, Patient 31, a 61-year-old woman, decided to go to church. What happened next is the best example of a phenomenon that scientists think may not only make the pandemic harder to contain but could be much of the reason there is one. It is seen around the world, from a zumba class in Asia to meatpacking plants in Wales to a funeral in the US (which, we now know, led to more funerals). ... As a member of the Shincheonji Church of Jesus, Patient 31 believed that the apocalypse was imminent. A terrible cataclysm was going to afflict the globe and only the faithful would be saved. We will never know precisely what happened on that day in mid-February. She went to church, feeling ill, seeking her salvation. ... We do know, however, that two days after she eventually did test positive, Patients 32 to 47 were linked to her. A month later, Patients 48 through to 5,047 were linked to them and the outbreak was no longer controlled.“ ... https://apple.news/ABIdvCNLjR5yLBS6ICDiYgA
From 32 to 5,047+ !!!!
(Actually she was only #31 for that geographic territory.)
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ICC
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 03:07pm
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KinAlberta, eye-opening 
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 03:21pm
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So sorry Darz.....
Had a neighbor in AZ, same scenario but a broken hip... 85 with Dementia husband had been caring for her. They let him see her when she came out of surgery after he threw a stink. Would not let him see her again while she was in the hospital, nor after she was transferred to a nursing facility "to recover." She died there of "natural causes, " yeh right....
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 03:31pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Any thoughts on those people refusing to wear masks because it’s their “right†not to?
I think its acceptable as long as they social distance and if the vast majority are wearing masks. (I can tolerate a few exceptions.) That said, I wonder what they’d do if you walked up really, REALLY CLOSE to them saying that you are no sheep and its your right not to social distance.
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ICC
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 03:57pm
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Quoting: KinAlberta Any thoughts on those people refusing to wear masks because it’s their “right†not to?
I believe that what some people call freedom is actually an absence of personal responsibility.
We are all in this together and need to cooperate as a group to have the best outcome.
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ICC
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 04:54pm
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Quoting: ICC I believe that what some people call freedom is actually an absence of personal responsibility.
Or to put that thought in other words, if something, anything (call it action A) somebody does has any effect on other people, maybe the freedom to do "action A" needs some sort of restriction. My personal freedom (to enjoy life, whatever legal things I do) should not be impinged upon by the actions of others.
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2020 07:39pm
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My thoughts:
It's your right to wear mask or not to wear a mask.
It's my right as a business owner to not serve you if you don't wear a mask
It's my right to not go to businesses that don't require mask.
.gov has no right to dictate mask. They can recommend strongly that they be used.
Insurance company has a right to demand you wear a mask or risk them not paying. ( kind of hard to prove unless you post on facebook photos of swapping spit at a bar...)
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2020 09:41am
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Very sorry to hear about your mother Darz......Very unfortunate it had to go down this way.....
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KelVarnsen
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2020 11:30am
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Quoting: mj1angier gov has no right to dictate mask. They can recommend strongly that they be used.
I don’t like political topics on this forum, but I have to ask. Why is okay for the government to mandate and enforce building codes, fire codes, seat belts, etc. in the interest of public safety, but not masks? And don’t tell me it’s about breathing issues. The government has indecent exposure (nudity) laws too and that is about personal clothing choices.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2020 10:55pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Coronavirus: Asymptomatic cases 'carry same amount of virus' - BBC News
“ Results of 1,886 tests suggest people with no symptoms at the time of the test, including those who never go on to develop symptoms, have the same amount of viral material in their nose and throat as people with symptoms.â€
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53665008
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