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paulz
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2020 05:33pm
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I've dreamed about doing this since I bought my property a decade ago. I have parking for about 20 cars, and a great spot to put a screen up above my carport.
Alas, I have no audio/visual experience. How would one go about having a big, big screen? Is it the same old tech with a projector and reels, or are there new high tech methods that won't break the bank?
As for sound, I'm thinking some kind of transmitter that would go out to the car radio, or maybe a cell phones?
This would be a real gas to do, if possible.
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hueyjazz
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2020 06:16pm
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These days the way you would want to do it is using a projector off a laptop to play a Blueray or DVD. The bigger the image the better the projector will need to be as the resolution falls off quick on the cheap ones
No the sound for twenty cars will be toughed if you want to broadcast to a radio. They do make 2.4 GHz but these tend to be low power so you don't step on toes
I've kind have done what you plan to do except I just used a decent speaker system and had people sit on chairs on our porch and screen across a couple of trees with bottom anchored well so it did flutter in breeze
Popcorn, pop and adult beverages. Why I even think there was some necking going on in the back row
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jhp
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2020 07:10pm - Edited by: jhp
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I think it's totally possible, even at somewhat low cost. Don't get me wrong I think it would be awesome but to pull it off you'd need to consider two things:
1. You'd have be careful who is in attendance or what you are showing. Violating copyright law could get you in a heap of trouble.
2. The simplest solution for audio I can think of would be to use a low power (~10watt) FM transmitter - the kind of thing you might find used in a large megachurch to broadcast the service via FM radio to all the rooms, or used in an amusement park for wide simulcast to announce lost kids or that kind of thing. The rub here is the technology is cheap but you need a license from the FCC (technically) to use it and they definitely don't mess around with fines. You won't have a problem buying the equipment on Amazon or Ebay from China.
So you'd have a decent quality, long-throw 4K projector with the most lumens you can find sitting about 20' in front of wherever you are throwing a ~300" image (that's like 12' high x 20' wide). A projector in this range with the brightness you need is going to run at about $2k.
You'll feed that with whatever the cheapest Blu-Ray player you can find is, probably around $25. Also plugged into the back of this player is your unlicensed FM transmitter via good old RCA cables.
I'm guessing the picture quality would be decent anywhere from about 40' to 60' and trail off after that. Front row parked about between where your two trucks are should be good. Back row, try and keep them close as you can, maybe no further back than the grassy area on the right.
I won't even wager a guess at a cost to put a decent screen on top of the carport, at that size it would be crazy expensive. I think the best you could do would try and build something cheap and functional and just accept the loss in quality.
I think your biggest issue might be the viewing angle. Screen on top of the carport and people in their cars would have a pretty steep view upwards from eye height to center of the screen - that's going to cause some distortion and wash out in the front row. Maybe not bad, but mounting the screen haflway down off the roof would help.
The audio wouldn't be surround sound anymore, the FM transmitter can only transmit a downmixed 5.1 to stereo, but a 10 watt transmitter should be more than enough power to give you a real strong in-car signal. Tuning it down to just enough power to get across your yard will probably keep the feds away.
Anyway. If you've got $3k and some pirate tendencies...sounds pretty awesome to me.
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ICC
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2020 08:00pm
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Quoting: jhp Violating copyright law could get you in a heap of trouble.
That warning appears at the beginning of every movie, does it not? The retirement home in town had to stop movie night because of that. They do now watch movies via Netflix. I guess that's because of the fees paid to Netflix.
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paulz
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2020 08:11pm - Edited by: paulz
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Thanks guys. The only attendees would be friends I have had for many years. It would be somewhat visible from the road however, I suppose someone could do bitch if they really wanted to. I'm thinking about old movies (since we are all old..), possibly in the public domain (already on youtube etc.).
Another alternative for sound might be to wire up a half dozen speakers around the place.
I could frame a screen of any size, would a white poly tarp do?
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Ontario lakeside
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2020 10:54pm
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They make inflatable screens, think bouncy castle in white. check amazon
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2020 08:47am
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Quoting: jhp You'd have be careful who is in attendance or what you are showing. Violating copyright law could get you in a heap of trouble.
As long as it is family and friends.... Via Legalzoom.com ...
"Most movies are intended for personal, private viewing only. If you're watching a movie in a group with your family and friends in your home, there is no issue under copyright law. Similarly, if you rent out a space for a private party and screen a movie for family and friends, and the party is exclusive to your guests and closed to the general public, there will not be a copyright law violation. However, if your event was open to members of the public outside your small group, the movie showing might be considered a “public performance." "
I think the "closed to the general public" is the key. We fully intend to do movie nights at the community pavillion this summer... if we can gather...
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jhp
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2020 09:24am
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Quoting: ICC That warning appears at the beginning of every movie, does it not?
Yes it does.
We live in a world where ambulance chasing lawyers no longer have to chase ambulances. All they have to hear about is how the bar down the street bought the latest UFC pay-per-view and showed it to the whole bar, or how the nursing home showed all the residents a 30 year old comedy to give them a fun Friday night - and they have all the ammo they need to strong-arm some settlement money.
In paulz' example, yeah if everyone there is family or invited friends and it's closed to the public it's probably fine. He's probably far off enough in the middle of nowhere that nobody would notice or care, I just think its worth mentioning because some people have no idea that it's a real thing.
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jhp
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2020 10:05am
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I looked at the first page, and this is about the best one:
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ele/d/mountain-view-panasonic-lcd-projector/70901354 87.html
It's rated at 4500 lumens which is about the highest of any on there. More lumens = brighter/better image reaching your screen. Downside is that the native resolution is only 1280x800 so you are losing image quality right there.
He's looking for $500 though, so it's still a bit much to take a shot on.
Most of the others on there were around 2000 lumens or aren't set up to project at the distance you're looking at.
In a case like this it might be worth buying a cheap "disposable" projector to prove the use-case and get your setup dialed in. If you really love it, then invest in a projector that will last you years.
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paulz
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2020 10:05am
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I've been reading about projectors.. If I want to show old Humphrey Bogart movies, do I need 4K? I mean, if the source is not hi resolution, does it help to have a hi res projector?
If I have the projector hooked to a laptop, why not just use streaming video?
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jhp
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2020 10:15am
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Quoting: paulz I mean, if the source is not hi resolution, does it help to have a hi res projector?
Not really.
What a high resolution projector does get you is just a better image quality from the source that will ultimately translate to a higher quality image on the screen.
Think of it like your TV. If you are sitting a few feet from it, you can notice the difference in quality between broadcast TV, a DVD, and a Blu-Ray. The difference between low resolution and HD level resolution is obvious, but at this distance they are all tolerable/enjoyable. Now imagine not moving your view distance but blowing up the TV and make it 10x bigger.
Now the low-resolution sources will look blocky and the high resolution sources will still look good.
As far as streaming video - sure you can do that too, or hook up an XBox and play video games. I was thinking if you're trying to do movies at the cheapest possible method and the highest quality source it would probably be a cheap Blu-Ray player and buying used Blu-Rays at the pawn shop for $3-$5 a piece.
Netflix would work just fine.
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lburners
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2020 11:13am
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Hit me up with a pm if you want. I have a bunch of low hour projectors that might suite your needs.
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paulz
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2020 11:15am
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Thanks jhp.
Last video game I played was Pong. 
You mentioned 12x20 screen. Is that about the max I could hope for? I may frame up a quick rectangle so I can stand back and take a look. Won't be back out there until next week though.
So with either Blu-Ray or streaming, the projector is the same? I'm seeing some inexpensive used projectors offered by guys that have upgraded to 4K projectors. If one of those is good enough for old drive in type quality that's probably all I need.
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lburners
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2020 11:47am - Edited by: lburners
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1080p will be more than enough for your needs I would imagine. Im guessing brightness is more relevant for you. The bigger the screen the brighter the projector you will need. Assuming there will be little to no light when you are showing I would not get anything below 4000lumens and that will be a stretch depending on your screen size.
Just re-reading a 12x20 screen is pretty large I would prob bump up to at least 5000lumens. Make sure you use a screen calculator to get the appropriate 16:9 aspect ratio.
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paulz
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2020 01:53pm
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JHP, I see the projector you mentioned has been on CL for 25 days, is down to $500. I emailed them, we'll see.
Iburners, thanks, you have anything that lumenish?
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lburners
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# Posted: 3 Apr 2020 02:26pm
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Yeah I run an audio visual business so I always have a bunch of stuff. I dont really see that there is a private message on here but feel free to shoot an e mail and I can send you a list.
info@vtaudiovisual.com
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 4 Apr 2020 10:11am
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Had another look at local ads, here are 3 high lumen projectors for sale. Why is one only $155?
Please have a look
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jhp
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# Posted: 4 Apr 2020 01:53pm - Edited by: jhp
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The one that is $155 brand new on Amazon is like $250. 6800 lumens is probably a stretch, maybe it will actually output half of that if you're lucky? Like a lot of cheap electronics its sort of you get what you pay for. It might work for you, it might not. The Panasonic you emailed that guy about almost certainly will perform as advertised.
The other two, those were built to do what you're trying to do - project across a very large space like a church. They're probably 10+ years old and are probably due for bulb replacement. They might be worth that much to the right buyer but I think you can do better for less money. An equivalent projector now would probably be in the $5k+ range. They are meant to be high performance at a long service life.
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paulz
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# Posted: 4 Apr 2020 06:10pm
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Thanks jhp, I really do appreciate it. No reply yet on the Panasonic. Here's a couple more I could drive to get. Not really any rush, a month or two from nice evening weather, but if a good deal comes along I might as well jump now.
Saw one with 15K lumens, but $5K. You could do a full fledged drive in movie theater with that I guess!
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paulz
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2020 09:12pm - Edited by: paulz
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Here's the 12x20 screen mockup. Too high i think, the first would need ramps. I can lower it to roof hight and top those little trees. Buddy the dog is about 100' back, 3rd row parking. .
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2020 10:22am - Edited by: justincasei812
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We do something similar to what you want to do in our backyard and what someone else mentioned by putting up a screen (old canvas painted white so the nothing bleeds through or is absorbed) then just use as others mentioned above with using a projector and a laptop. I use old stereo speakers plugged into either the laptop or projector for sound.
I remember seeing last yr that a school or something like that in CA. had to shut down their movie night and was sued by Disney (??) for showing their movies. Problem was it was a public event and they were doing it as a fundraiser I think. We have had less than 10 people or the kids go out back to watch whatever off of netflix or hulu.
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paulz
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2020 10:55am
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Thanks, looks very nice. Yeah a white canvas painters tarp maybe.
I'm complicating this I'm sure by wanting a drive in but for one I don't have your nice lawn and two my friends are old car hobbiests and will enjoy bringing their cars.
After looking at my mockup I think 12x20 is about the minimum screen size and also being that the viewing area will be 50-100' away I should make sure and get a powerful projector. No sense in skimping if the results aren't satisfactory. Another thought might be to try and rent one for the first go.
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2020 11:38am
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I think our canvas is actually something that would used for beer/ advertising signage but nothing printed on it. If you can find one that will work. I throw some water and soap on mine once in a while and scrub it off.
I am sure your friends could drive in with some camp chairs and sit in front of their cars if they wanted??? That way you could just do speakers and not get into how to produce individual sound for each car or get real small desktop speakers and wiring so it can be put on their dash or blue tooth speakers that will sync up. See how that works and upgrade if it's a hit.
My projector was a freebie from work. They were upgrading and got rid of what they had. A little older and set up for an office or class room environment. Basically it has to be real close (within 6') to the screen or the picture gets distorted. It works for us, we are in Michigan and it's only used for summer when the nights are warm. The bad thing is in the summer when it doesn't get dark until 10p and you can't see anything on the screen until after that.
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paulz
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# Posted: 10 Apr 2020 11:58pm
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Got home from the cabin yesterday, was poking around the 'net for projectors when fate stepped in, FREE projector on the curb in Oakland on Craigslist. Didn't say what it was but the wife was jonesing for a road trip so off we went. Luckily it was still there. The usual bay area commute gridlock was gone, it's like it was 30 years ago driving around.
It's a bit of a dinosaur, no wifi or 4K but it's a Panasonic with 6k rip roaring lumens, $10K when new a decade ago. A good learner anyway, and it works! I have it hooked to my laptop, with some help from @Iburners, and it's playing DVDs. Just a quick test in my living room.
Also realized that I have one of those portable canopies out at the property with a white tarp, about 16x20, that might work for a screen.
Looking forward to getting back out there next week and see how it flies.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2020 09:59am
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You are the luckiest guy around! Free generators, Wheel saws, Pavers.... now a projector! Dang man!!
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2020 11:03am - Edited by: paulz
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You left out the Datsun 4x4..
Yeah I do get a lot of free stuff, for a few reasons. San Francisco, San Jose, Oakland even Sacramento are in my scrounging radius, so there is an abundance of stuff to be had, and the economy around there has been booming for awhile now. There's a lot of building, remodeling and what not going on. It's amazing the stuff they 'just want gone' after construction projects.
My cabin property is also located in a fairly well to do area, I was only able to buy it because of the 2008 economic crash, and because a developer friend was in dire straights with unsold spec homes and unpaid construction loans. I had never owned property before, and really never intended to, but it was such a nice spot and I figured it was better than letting my life savings just sit in the bank.
Anyway, I am the lowly but loved mechanic/welder/machinist in an area with many doctors, lawyers, high techys and business owners. When their stuff breaks I fix it. I rarely charge anyone for labor. So when they no longer want something I'm pretty high on the list of recipients.
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2020 01:05pm
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You might check with a billboard company. They use painted tarps to do the signs on and sometime they give/ sell cheap. They are kind of heavy.
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jhp
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2020 01:24pm
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Great score, looks like its moving right along.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2020 02:00pm
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Actually I just bought one of the billboard "tarps" that I'm going to use as a vapor barrier under the cabin.... really it is drier than a bone under there so more than anything a clean surface to crawl around on. A 14' x 45' tarp was $75.00.
All this to say... yes they are heavy tarps... white on the back side and printed on the other, would be a perfect projection screen I think. If the back bleeds through you could paint it flat black.
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paulz
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2020 02:19pm
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Thanks, I will look into the billboard tarps.
Now that the video portion seems to be coming along I'm thinking about the audio, because it really won't be enjoyable with bad audio.
The laptop I have connected has an audio output jack, and also bluetooth. I took a battery powered bluetooth speaker and got about 30' from the laptop before it started cutting out. Almost enough, assuming the laptop was in the center of the viewing area, and the signal could go out to a bunch of speakers. I see they make range extenders.
That might be the easiest way to go if feasible. Then there is the output jack, maybe hooked to a small radio transmitter to play on the car radios.
Or a bunch of hard wired speakers.
Any advice appreciated.
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