|
| Author |
Message |
KinAlberta
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2017 05:49pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply
I just had to post this story.
Yes, $65,000 is insanity. So is $550. Just a few more dollars were or are needed.
However, leaving anything like this as is... is a scary proposition. Think: joggers hitting the treads on the run, 250+ lb walkers (wider people stepping down along the edge of the treads... or 5 yrs of weathering and rot, non-ACQ screws in PT wood, etc.
So, the journalist may have been trying to be kind (since the stairs are closed off anyway), or unaware himself, but in today's world stories like this are viewed far and wide and it's scary to think that people may look at this and the photos as an example of what they could do.
I do wish the various articles and news coverage would have subtly pointed out the failings or referenced a guide.
First have a seat, then click on the pictures:
Toronto man builds park stairs for $550, irking city after $65,000 estimate...“I think everyone will understand that it will be more than $550,†he said on Wednesday. “We just can’t have people decide to go out to Home Depot and build a staircase in a park because that’s what they would like to have.†... Area resident Dana Beamon told CTV Toronto she’s happy to have the stairs there, whether or not they are up to city standards. “We have far too much bureaucracy,†she said. “We don’t have enough self-initiative in our city, so I’m impressed.†http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toronto-man-builds-park-stairs-for-550-irking-city-after -65-000-estimate-1.3510237#
http://globalnews.ca/news/3610696/tom-riley-park-stairs-toronto/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/etobicoke-park-stairs-1.4213586
Stepgate shows City Hall reality check needed Which would you prefer: A series of 10 wood steps built to the Ontario Building Code, with legal railings and set-in concrete footings warrantied for at least two years, courtesy of a private contractor for $3,000? Or seven concrete steps with a metal railing built for the city’s Parks, Forestry and Recreation department for a grand total of $70,000? http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/19/stepgate-shows-city-hall-needs-reality-check
|
|
Littlecooner
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2017 06:05pm
Reply
Really obvious that Mr. Asti does not understand the principle of kickbacks and money under the table for government projects.
|
|
KinAlberta
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2017 06:09pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply
Quoting: Littlecooner s that Mr. Asti does not understand the principle of kickbacks and money under the table for government projects.
Most likely.
Or a city admin that just doesn't want to have this prioritized or in the plans at all. So use unbelievable estimate Shock & Awe to kill it for good 'so we can get on with doing what we want and not what the citizens want'.
|
|
KinAlberta
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2017 06:36pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply
Love this comment - see quote below.
Plus John now has dig fast and furious while making zero mistakes in order to meet the unbelievably short deadline to completion - a deadline "set in stone" month's prior when a manager said to the Grand Poobah: "Oh, sure we can have that done in 3 months time - August 1st for sure." The Grand Poobah pondered on the idea for a few weeks, then said: "Yes, lets do it. August 1st right."
Then the senior managers spent weeks trying to decide what wording to use in the press release and what font to use in the project signage, and... and... and finally, a week before the deadline, John got sign off to buy a shovel and start digging.
Everyone else came to watch because of all the time they'd vested in the project.
|
|
toyota_mdt_tech
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2017 09:01pm
Reply
Its not up to code or specs, looks cobbly IMHO, but you know for a $1000, you can do that first class, safe and durable. Much less than the 65K
|
|
NorthRick
Member
|
# Posted: 21 Jul 2017 11:51am
Reply
It's amazing how ridiculous things can get cost-wise. Here in Anchorage a full size old locomotive in a park was vandalized by graffiti a while back. City estimate to remove the paint - $10,000. Next day a guy and his two young daughters cleaned all the paint off for free. Didn't ask, just did it. I have no doubt that if they didn't do that, the graffiti would still be there today.
|
|
Steve_S
Member
|
# Posted: 21 Jul 2017 12:06pm
Reply
@Northrick, that loco story really says a lot doesn't it... scary indeed.
Well the military still spends $500+ for a $20 hammer and most anything that is touched by government is a minimum of 50% more expensive but typically 100% more. Even worse If the work has to go out to contractors & sub-contractors because they each add their 100% markup for the hassle of dealing with Government.
How do I know... I used to sub-contract to the government, under IBM Contracts ... It was astronomical how the funds are abused and how these things just never see the light of day.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 21 Jul 2017 02:08pm
Reply
I hope that guy didn't build his house!
A for sticking it to the man.
F for execution.
|
|
|
Cowracer
Member
|
# Posted: 21 Jul 2017 02:46pm
Reply
Quoting: Steve_S Well the military still spends $500+ for a $20 hammer and most anything that is touched by government is a minimum of 50% more expensive but typically 100% more
The reason for this is the specifications. I have worked for manufacturers of military equipment and the specs on something as simple as a hammer run 18-20 pages. Each specification point has to be inspected, measured and verified. They may say something like "hammer to have a rubberized coating over the handle of no more than 92 durometer (A scale) and no less than 88 durometer (A scale) with the coating extending 9 inches (+.125 -0 inches) from end of handle...... yadda yadda yadda... ad infinitum"
Every hammer will then have to the have the hardness and length of the rubber coating on the handle measured. Each hammer will have to be given a serial number or another unique identifier and all records of that particular hammer as opposed to specifications must be retained for many years by the manufacturer.
yeah, it still takes only $20 to make a hammer. It takes the other $480 to PROVE you made a $20 hammer the way the government wants it.
Tim
|
|
Kamn
Member
|
# Posted: 21 Jul 2017 04:26pm
Reply
Update,
the city has taken down his stairs and will have a new set up within the week for under 10K (built to code)
The point was made and brought the insane price tag out to the public eye which made people ask LOTS of questions.
As poorly as those stairs were made, it served its purpose
|
|
Littlecooner
Member
|
# Posted: 22 Jul 2017 10:29am - Edited by: Littlecooner
Reply
Also note - 10 k to build to code, guy builds a working set for 550. We are going to regulate our self out of existence as a civilization. Way, way to much code - build a good set to minimum working standards for 1000-2000 bucks. The legal profession has ruined our civilization - sue for a million bucks because the 400 pound lady slipped on the steps that did not have the latest and greatest no slip cover on the steps. kid gets his hand caught in the handrail, cost city 2 million dollars because spacing was 3 1/2 inches, not 3 inches, etc. See the pattern, so we need steps, it takes 3 years of design and review by every profession know to man kind to approve construction, trying to avoid the millions paid out when some fool hurts him or her self because of their own stupidity, not the fault of "the government". This old retired guy spent 20 years on one side of the fence and 20 years on the otherwise of the fence and have lived this stuff for a lifetime. If we could rid the world of 95 % of attorneys, it would be a better civilization to live and do business with each other, including "government" ok, rant over.
|
|
toyota_mdt_tech
Member
|
# Posted: 23 Jul 2017 02:44pm
Reply
Quoting: Kamn Update, the city has taken down his stairs and will have a new set up within the week for under 10K (built to code)
So for $550, he saved taxpayers $55,000, this was a great investment. 
|
|
KinAlberta
Member
|
# Posted: 23 Jul 2017 10:39pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply
When someone sees a dirt slope they know the risk they are taking by going down it.
Come upon this from the top, and what do you get?
Answer: a visual warning in the form of a very weird first step design. Ignore this and you get a top step that will have inexplicably guided you to one edge or another of the treads... if you're heavy, or a jogger, and/or it was screwed together with incompatible screws...
http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170720180837-ctv-toronto-stairs-1-exlarge-16 9.jpg
Scroll down this link for more pics. One shows galvanized screws in hand rail. Above, note ground contact lumber used for treads.
http://nationalpost.com/news/toronto/toronto-tears-down-elderly-mans-550-staircase-pr omises-to-build-new-ones-for-10000/wcm/fe0c3bff-788d-4cd8-b8ba-075e2b21bf49
|
|
creeky
Member
|
# Posted: 24 Jul 2017 01:24pm
Reply
the problem was people who were going to the garden this path led to had already fallen and hurt themselves.
not the best tread design. but it was in place and saving falls quickly.
|
|
Jabberwocky
Member
|
# Posted: 24 Jul 2017 03:53pm
Reply
Those stairs have a lot of um.... character. 
|
|
|
