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Borrego
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2017 10:40pm
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Quoting: darz5150 Its sort of like a fire extinguisher. You might feel better knowing you have one before your house burns down.
This ^^^^^^^ 
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2017 11:48pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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...
However if it's a low probability risk how much effort do you expend to protect yourself?
Here (see article below), this is a big city, yet the risk still seems pretty low. Out in the country? I'd say the risk is far, far lower. (And my city at times had been called the murder capital of Canada)
... A: In Toronto, about 12 people per year are killed by a stranger. There are 2.6 million people in the city, so your chances of getting killed by a stranger are about one in 220,000. So, not very likely at all. ... Q: How do you calculate that? A: We work in terms of statistics for recent times, like the number of homicides per year. In 2007, there were 84 homicides in Toronto. (It usually goes from 60 to about 80.) There are also statistics on the victim-offender relationship. Only about 15 per cent (of victims) are killed by a stranger. So 15 per cent of 80 homicides ... In comparison, your chances of getting killed by your spouse are one in 135,000, or about 50 per cent higher. ... Q: What else can you compare it to? A: In Canada, one out of 440 people dies of cardiovascular disease, 125 times more likely than getting killed by a stranger. About 3,000 Canadians die in car accidents each year, so nationally, the odds are one in 11,000 – 20 times more likely. But people worry a lot more about getting killed, when in reality, they should worry about car accidents. Q: Do individual behaviours or characteristics affect the risk of getting killed? A: There are variations for personal lifestyle and habits, but it's difficult to calculate. Obviously, if you hang out in nightclubs a lot or you live in a (dangerous) neighbourhood ... your odds increase – or if you have a job that takes you into dangerous situations, like a police officer. https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2008/01/19/youre_safer_than_you_think_statistics_e xpert.html
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Malamute
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# Posted: 2 Aug 2017 12:05am - Edited by: Malamute
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Quoting: bldginsp My neighbor's wife was a little put off when I showed her the security screen door on my cabin. "Don't need that here" she said, and she's lived there 20 years. There was a time- and it still exists in some places- where no one saw a need to lock their doors, and they trusted all local residents. Or rather, it simply never occurred to them that they should not. Call it innocence, or the good fortune to live in different times. If you need guns you need guns, I suppose, but I'd rather not be in a situation where I do.
In a discussion elsewhere, it was brought up that theres almost always been horrible things happen, even in the places and times we like to think of as safe or remote from them. I think today its easier to hear of it past the local area.
Quoting: KinAlberta However if it's a low probability risk how much effort do you expend to protect yourself?
Canada. Yeah, Canada is different. Different folks, different culture, different laws. Not sure theres really a way to correlate Canada to the US. Enjoy it if its home.
Id expend as much effort to protect myself as seemed required to stay safe, even with low odds. That can vary, even in the states. Each has to decide for themselves what the balance is between the odds, and the stakes. Many people also have really poor judgment about the actual risks and stakes.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 2 Aug 2017 11:10am
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Maybe I'm wrong but I think that most of the US is like Canada. Very low odds of getting shot by thieves and that the high levels of violence are limited to certain areas (cities with gangs, economically depressed areas, etc).
Nonetheless I do enjoy thinking about preventative measures for all kinds of risks, even lower probability risks - particularly if they have severe consequences.
So I enjoy thinking about possible preparations for things like 1 in a 100 yr flood risks followed by another of the same (due to climate cycles), especially when a flood hasn't occurred in a long time. Also things like preventing a break in, tornado response, etc. are sometimes concerns of mine. However I still haven't built a tornado bunker at the cabin.
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Malamute
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# Posted: 2 Aug 2017 02:06pm
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Quoting: KinAlberta Maybe I'm wrong but I think that most of the US is like Canada. Very low odds of getting shot by thieves and that the high levels of violence are limited to certain areas (cities with gangs, economically depressed areas, etc)
I agree with your assessment. There are many factors that enter into the picture, but yes, the odds are pretty low in most places and for most people. There are of course exceptions, things sometimes happen to people in what wed generally consider low risk areas, lifestyles and situations.
Theres a saying, avoid doing stupid things, with stupid people, in stupid places, at stupid times.
Theres another cute one, do stupid things, win stupid prizes. The news bit about the motorcycle crash on I 495 in Maryland reminded me of this saying.
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naturelover66
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2017 08:22am
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Well im a 51 yr old lady who isnt comfortable with guns. We have a 45 long colt and a 9mm but ive never shot them. I carry a kimber pepper blaster in the outside pocket of my purse . Got it for mothers day
I live in a nice burb 10 minutes from Detroit and feel much safer at the cabin in North west Michigan. I feel like the pepper spray is better than nothing... Our world scares me.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2017 09:38am
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one thing to remember is that the police are reactive not proactive. They show up after things go bad. When you are in remote areas you are the police, fire fighter and EMT. You are the first responder!
There is ALOT of responsibility that comes with being remote, even if it's just for a few days, few weeks or long term.
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naturelover66
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2017 11:17am
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This is the truth sparky.
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LDamm
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2017 11:23am
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Quoting: sparky30_06 They show up after things go bad.
When seconds count, help is minutes away.
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Kamn
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2017 12:13pm
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Im in Canada and still feel better having my 12 gauge around due to being so remote.......not just for security from people but also Bears. And because we are so remote, I always have a good first aid kit and suture kit handy because you never know and EMT will be a while until they get to me
I would rather be safe than sorry and plan for the unexpected
My 2 cents...but since we don't have pennies anymore I guess its a nickel
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2017 01:52pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Well I have no problem with guns and see their utility for some threats (black bear, grizzly, wild pigs, etc.) but I don't see the need for just brown bear, cougar, and the like. I also see a human downside to having a gun laying about.
However growing up: my dad always took a shotgun with us to the cabin (mostly for porcupines), part of our basement was a target range for our air rifles, my father AND MY MOTHER each had their own bird guns, family shot skeet at the cabin and there's even an Olympic shooter connection. Plus there was the 'homemade' 4? gauge toy which could blast a hole right through a small tree. (An older sibling and friends made it.) Then the time they 'played around' with dynamite - which unfortunately I missed. In today's world that would just get everyone on some nasty government list - hence I don't even want to blow up beaver dams.). One sibling followed the bigger is always better approach to handguns and rifles. So I'd been around guns as a kid, but not so much as an adult.
As for the downside, if you take a gun to the cottage but don't lock it up or keep it with you, it could be used against you.
My break-in stories:
I may have posted this here before, but before I was born my parents came home to unmelted snow still on the floor and a gun or two on their bed - a rifle was stolen - later sawed off and used by the kid that took it to shoot through a window and hit an innocent person (a maid where the kids mother worked and was let go.) Basically access to the gun allowed some dumb kid to go and screw up someone else's life.) Anyway, that was long before we had any requirements to secure guns.
Then maybe 20 or so years ago my neighbour, the husband, was a hunter and had guns in the house. So one afternoon the wife comes home to find a gun leaning up against the wall near the door (at first she thought the husband was at home and had pulled out a gun), then she saw another gun near another door, and a hunting knife out on the kitchen table or something. The thief had gone. (Interestingly I was a home that day, very likely sitting in the livingroom of my house and and didn't hear or see a thing.) Anyway, again you better make sure you have access and that someone that beaks in doesn't have access to your guns while you're out tinkering, or for a walk, or fishing.
My unpredictable husband story:
More recently there was the time we thought we heard a gun shot in nearby. Well a couple years later we heard from a neighbour lady who'd kicked out her spouse for a number of reasons. She mentioned that one night, a couple years earlier he'd taken some kind of drug, then lost his temper over something and fired off his rifle in the house. It freaked her out a bit. (This guy was an avid outdoorsman, former cowboy and mostly or 'normally', a great guy.) So again, having a gun around at the cabin could have unintended consequences when people you know get upset over something. (I could see guests or their kids squabbling and flipping out or something. Rare and unlikely? Exactly, my point. Same with someone trying to kill me at the cabin - in my part of the country.)
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2017 03:56pm
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Some one could grab a piece of fire wood you have split and stacked and use it to break into your cabin and beat you or take it to your neighbors and beat them.
They can grab your axe that you split that wood with and go do lots of harm too.
You could be sound asleep in bed and a tree could come crashing down, punch right through the roof and seriously hurt or kill you.
Lots can go bad, lots can go wrong. BUT with proper precautions and training we can mitigate these hazards. You can NEVER eliminate all hazards.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2017 03:59pm
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Quoting: KinAlberta So again, having a gun around at the cabin could have unintended consequences when people you know get upset over something.
better remove everything and anything that can be used as a weapon. knifes, fire wood, lamps, axe, chairs, toothbrush, oh and even your credit card in your wallet can be used to kill someone. How?? you can sharpen the edge and use it like a razor.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2017 10:36pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Quoting: sparky30_06 Quoting: KinAlberta So again, having a gun around at the cabin could have unintended consequences when people you know get upset over something. better remove everything and anything that can be used as a weapon. knifes, fire wood, lamps, axe, chairs, toothbrush, oh and even your credit card in your wallet can be used to kill someone. How?? you can sharpen the edge and use it like a razor.
Credit cards have long been weapons of mass destruction, sharpened or not.
Nonetheless, why go to the hassle of having a gun when you have knifes, fire wood, lamps, axe, chairs, toothbrushs etc at your disposal?
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olskool
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2017 09:44am
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I never go anywhere unarmed. CWP is a must. if you are unarmed then you are a victim,,,,,
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Borrego
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2017 08:21pm
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Quoting: KinAlberta Nonetheless, why go to the hassle of having a gun when you have knifes, fire wood, lamps, axe, chairs, toothbrushs etc at your disposal?
If a dozen illegal Mexicans come through my camp and decide to get nasty, throwing firewood and chairs at them would have poor consequences. 
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darz5150
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2017 09:13pm
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Never bring a toothbrush..to a lamp fight! LOL
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2017 08:02pm
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Sounds like something out of Shrek.
Maybe offer to cook up some breakfast. Eggs come by the dozen too.
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95XL883
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2017 12:16am
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The decision to carry a weapon is highly personal and one size definitely does not fit all. If someone doesn't have the mindset to use a weapon they may indeed be somewhat better off without one. For me, i carry whenever I am awake. When I am asleep, my primary self defense weapon is within arm's reach. The doors and windows are securely locked and my GSD is sleeping in my room. (She is quite protective.) If someone doesn't want a weapon because they are afraid of bad consequences, more power to them; it's their decision. They just need to remember not to whine and cry (if they survive) about what a really bad person will do to them.
For the record, I am the victim of a violent predator. I'm lucky/blessed by God to be alive. I will not willingly be that defenseless again. I don't go looking for fights but I will do whatever is necessary to protect my wife, my children and my life. Mindset, skill set, tool set in that order. Without the first one, the other two don't count for much.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2017 09:51am - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Similarly our girl is taking Tae Kwon Do and I think it's incumbent on all parents of girls to equip them with self defence skills since the probability of violence by males is significant. (However male vs male violence is also significant.)
Here's an interesting map and table. See below.
Note some of countries in the grey. I'd like to see the same at a detailed city/town/district level.
VIOLENCE DEATH RATE BY COUNTRY - World Life Expectancy
Interactive Charts and Maps that Rank Violence as a Cause of Death for every country in the World.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/violence/by-country/
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ICC
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2017 10:06am - Edited by: ICC
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I find the contrast between Canada and the USA somewhat astounding. In many ways it seems we have similarities, but Canadians are less prone to kill each other. And Canadians kill each other more frequently than Europeans. Why?
USA map by the same website
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/cause-of-death/violence/by-state/
and one by county
http://www.oregonlive.com/data/2015/10/where_do_americans_die_by_gunf.html
Suicides are also counted it seems. So the data in not simple murders. Gets confusing.
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ICC
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2017 10:17am - Edited by: ICC
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Another interesting map, licensed importers, pawnshops and sellers of firearms per 100,000 residents
http://projects.oregonlive.com/guns/dealers
Other maps on that site too
OK here's the best set of maps, by county, 1 for total of gun deaths per 100,000, then a suicide and a homicide map.
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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2017 09:13pm
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I live in a fairly large city, Columbus Ohio and most of our murders are by thugs and gang bangers usually involving drugs. I don't know if Canada has this problem like we do in the US. It really is a cancer. Look at Chicago. 400 murders YTD so far.
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