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MtnDon
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2016 11:14pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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This morning we got one of those phone calls you hate to get. The Jemez Pueblo Police called and asked if we owned a green Yamaha ATV. Answer: yes. Next they asked if we had given permission to anyone to use the ATV. Answer: No. Turns out thieves were there probably last night or early this AM. They broke the padlock off the shed where they found a 6 foot steel digging / prying bar they used to pry open the barn doors where the ATV was stored. The same bar was used to do one of the best/worst demolitions of the cabin door.
Good news is the police apprehended one person in possession of the stolen ATV and a 12 gauge shotgun we kept in the cabin. The cop saw the ATV being driven on a public road, a no-no here, and did a traffic stop. We pick the ATV up from the police impound tomorrow. The thieves packed the three totes on it with assorted camping gear, some tools and a bunch of our favorite oatmeal from the cabin. We met with county detectives up there and I already have the shotgun back.
Missing still are some biggish items; Honda EU2000i, ATV utility trailer, Husky chain saw, 40†TV and some ammo, about 400 .22LR, 100 .45LC and 50 assorted 12 gauge shells. And a bunch of smaller stuff like 2 way radios, IR thermometer, gasoline…. With any more luck we had with the timely apprehension of one of the thieves we may recover some other goods. And then maybe not.
Our neighbors were also hit. We know this happened after Wed night because James was there then.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2016 11:26pm
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Sorry to hear it Don. Hope you get the other things back- it's rare that burglarized items get returned.
Riding down the road on a stolen ATV- what an idiot- lucky for you.
I researched security a bit and concluded that padlocks are the worst- they do no more than keep honest people honest. I replaced the padlocks and standard hasp on my sheds with puck locks, with the hidden hasp. If they really want to they can still get in, but the puck locks will not be the easiest way to get in.
On the front door of my cabin I installed one of those metal screen/security doors. Now the easiest way to get in is to break a window. I considered bars on the windows but no, too prison-like. Now I'm considering steel shutters that will double as fire protection.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 16 Sep 2016 11:35pm
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We had considered the roll down steel shutters and didn't go that way because they are very pricey.
Thinking about it now I think a cheap padlock may have been a better choice. The super duper deadbolt and the installation with long, strong steel screws resulted in some of the more serious damage to door and framing that I have seen. It will not be a simple repair.
The double steel doors on the barn gave way after much deformation done with the steel pry bar. The oak drop bar on the inside was undamaged but the 1/5" steel brackets bent enough to let them get the bar in and then pry the oak drop bar up and out.
The shed had a simple padlock they pried off first. That will be a $7 repair and the lock is still good too. They didn't even try the steel security door on the barn walk in door but went for the vehicle doors instead.
They could take their time as the place is near invisible. It was invisible for 8 years.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 12:03am
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Scum of the earth. Hope you get all your gear back.
I am adding a container to mine and I will add the security lock cover. So far, I haven't left anything real valuable there, pack it all hope. Just some personal items no one would really be after.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 08:33am
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Sorry to hear MtnDon but at least the local constabulary seems to be working it and getting things done, hope they recover all the stuff.
Sadly, if someone is determined to get in, they will, no matter what defences you have in place. Being Visible / Seen is a fair deterrent and we all know how that works at 3am, unless it's high traffic & visibility and even then.
Making it tough to get in is one approach, making it tough to get out is another... IE using a deadbolt that is keyed on both sides, get in and want to open a door that is locked.... makes crook grumble as now they have to shove things out windows...
I have a Sea Can, they are tough as heck but still can be broken into with serious effort or good cordless tools but either would be terribly noisy to do increasing chance of being caught.
Would a Cabin Alarm be worth considering if you have neighbour not too far off ? Something like this below:
Cabin Alarm Systems
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Just
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 09:58am
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We leave the door open ,they still steal but the don't break much .
They have taken maybe 1000$ worth of stuff in the last 10 years but it made me mad when they took my mounted beaver pelt.Not much you can do.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 11:49am
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I'm thinking about a game cam with cellular function. I have hidden game cams already so at least I can see who dunnit.
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hattie
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 03:40pm
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I am so sorry to hear this MtnDon!!  I'm glad you got some items back and hopefully you will get more. Let's hope the guy they caught will squeal on his partners in crime!
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rockies
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 06:29pm - Edited by: rockies
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Sorry to hear about that. Did you consider having a security camera system that can be monitored from your home computer or cellphone? I think you can get cameras that are motion activated.
As for secure design I plan on all the cabin access doors being outswing so they can't be kicked in. You can order the door frames made out of metal too for added security. As for windows I plan on installing metal "U" channels above and below windows so that metal sheets can be slid in place and locked if I'm away for a while or for fire protection.
A 20' metal shipping container makes a good secure storage shed. At least they didn't burn the place down.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 07:01pm
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MtnDon
That's just sickening. I'm so sorry.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 07:46pm
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I didn't think to take a photo until I had removed the locks. Never took a photo of the door jamb but it has lots of splits.
I used the sawsall to trim of the mangled metal. Then screwed a 1x6 inside and outside. Mounted a gate/shed latch and used a padlock today.
Next time, some paint.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 07:49pm
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Security cam systems that can do live feed need a 24/7 power supply and a cell #. It's all off grid. This far enough off the beaten track that by the time anyone was sent there the thieves would probably have stolen the equipment as well as the other stuff. Steel shutters work but can also shift the method of ingress to chain saw through the wall. It's happened in the county.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 08:37pm
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Easiest way to get in is what they'll use. Next they'll bring a backhoe and chop a hole. Faster than chainsaw, and you don't have to sharpen blades when you hit nails.
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Bret
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 10:18pm
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Man, I am so sorry. This is something nobody wants to have happen. This and a fire. I lost a house in 1999 to fire. It's the same as someone coming in and destroying alot of hardwork.
You seem to be a resilient dude and stuff is stuff. Still, it's a pain in the ass knowing someone can waltz in and take what doesn't belong to them.
These words don't mean much, it could have happenbed to any of us.
Again, this hurts us all.
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LoonWhisperer
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 10:27pm
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Sorry Don. Glad they nailed one of the clowns involved. Shaking my head that buddy decided to cruise down a public road with the ATV he just swiped.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 17 Sep 2016 11:18pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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My guess is he was taking it home. Half a mile further and he'd of been in the developed area of the pueblo. I have profusely thanked the officer in person. That was a lucky break.
The gas tank was still nearly full,so I think he had left the cabin and headed south down the forest service road which turns to pavement a few miles from the junction where the officer saw and stopped him.
There was at least 1 other ATV. They came in and left through the national forest land. Drove through the barbed wire after cutting the top strand. Never bothered with the locked pipe gate.
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DaveBell
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2016 05:18am
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Sorry this happened to you Don. I wonder if the judge will make them pay $$ for the damage and lost items? I wonder if you could put a lien on their property (with compounding interest)?
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Asher
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2016 08:50am
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Sorry for your loss, I know the feeling about thieves.. I am guilty of locking things up, but then walk right pass a giant demolition bar, shovel, crowbar, etc that I forgot to put away (might as well be considered a thief's skeleton key)...
The other problem with these scum balls is that they are usually renters, already on the lamb from every credit collection company known to man, and don't work... So trying to get anything out of them is useless..
Hopefully you had insurance to cover the cost, and it's a good thing that they caught one of the scum balls, because they would have been back in a couple months after the place got "restocked"..
Anyone that has never been a involved in a theft doesn't know the mental/emotional effect it has. Loosing a couple things is easy to over come, the mental violation is much more difficult to over come...
Good luck, make sure to be involved with the prosecutor so they don't just blow off the case and allow a "slap on the hand pea" be there for the hearing, but pray for the strength to forgive and forget because your going to need that peace in your mind...
I have been involved 2 different times where I showed up to court for the hearing and both times was thanked by the cop and the attorney for supporting them, it kept the cases moving forward instead of getting plea'd and not going before a judge..
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2016 10:24am - Edited by: KinAlberta
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On a couple buildings I've long planned to install drop bars with a pull rope to the outside (hidden of course). I'll probably do it shortly after we get robbed.
On an old garage, where cosmetics don't matter much, I also have a 32" wooden hollow ore mandoor that needs to be replaced because someone simply hammered a large hole through it to undo the door knob (they'd already cut the padlock).
I think I may just take an old used metal 36" door (of which I have several sitting inside the same building) and frame it with 2x on the flat with surface hinges making it outward opening and reinforced by the 4" overlap over the old frame/wall.
In the city I've installed Bolt Buddies on a couple doors. It's nice because it both reinforces the frame and the door with heavy metal. Super easy to install as you're not having to chisel or plane edges for those metal wraps or open up things to put in reinforcing bars, etc.
http://www.boltbuddy.com/boltbuddy.htm
A big picture:
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DaveBell
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2016 02:43pm
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Quoting: KinAlberta On a couple buildings I've long planned to install drop bars with a pull rope to the outside (hidden of course).
Very Interesting....
Going to make sure my doors will be steel with steel jambs and steel studs.
Windows will be less than 15" wide.
My buddy down in Georgia recommended putting the dead bolts 24" up from the bottom and 24" down from the top.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2016 06:21pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Quoting: DaveBell Very Interesting.... Going to make sure my doors will be steel with steel jambs and steel studs. Windows will be less than 15" wide. My buddy down in Georgia recommended putting the dead bolts 24" up from the bottom and 24" down from the top.
Right after we replaced out home's front door with a metal door, I found out that some metal doors are just metal skinned with wood down the edges and others wrap metal completely around. We had the cheap version.
Security tests by Consumer Reports Magazine in the 1990s found that many residential doors fail or delaminate when force is applied to them. Solid wood doors withstood more force than the very common metal skinned wood-edged doors used in newer construction. A broad range door manufacturer, Premdor (now Masonite) once stated in one of its 1990s brochures entitled "Premdor Entry Systems" page 6 that "The results of tests were overwhelming, Steel edged doors outperform wood-edged doors by a ratio of 7 to 1. When you consider the practically two-thirds of all illegal entries were made through doors... One hit of 100 lb [lbf] strike force broke the wood-edged stile and opened the door. To actually open the steel-edged door required 7 strikes of 100 lb pressure [force]." Most door manufactures offer a number of different types of doors with varying levels of strength. Consumer Reports Magazine also reported in its test results that door frames often split with little force applied and lower quality deadbolts simply failed when force was applied to the door." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door_security
Here's and example of a pretty useless wood edged metal door in terms of security (less strength than a solid wood door)
http://www.doorsecuritypro.com/i/Split_Door_From_Kick_In.jpg
This company's link provides quite a bit of information on security:
http://www.doorsecuritypro.com/index.html
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2016 07:12pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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I have come to the conclusion, belatedly, that strong doors and heavy duty deadbolts are better suited to the city or suburbs than to cabins in the woods where the closest neighbor is a quarter mile away and completely out of sight and probably not there at the time thieves show up. Walking through the scene in my mind I believe they were there a couple of hours minimum and were not feeling rushed. They took time to remove the screws that held the TV arm to the wall. The TV could have been lifted of the arm more easily. Time was taken to go through the cabin, shed and barn looking at everything. They selected some things that were out of the way, not necessarily hidden, but behind other things. The ATV key was not in the ignition lock, but it was hanging in the barn on a nail under a rag that was covering it.
My deadbolt held amazingly well. A full one inch throw and equipped with a heavy plate in the jamb. Just like the one on the city home. It is still operable. Eventually the jamb split and gave way. I feel the only reason they did not abandon the effort to break through the door was with the cabin floor 28" above ground level going through a window and especially exiting a window with merchandise would be difficult. So more time was spent breaking the door open.
So anyhow, my remote cabin approach to security will be less resistant to forced entry. These guys have shown that given little fear of neighbors hearing the break in the thieves have time to do whatever is necessary.
As long as there is a little resistance that will at least provide an insurance company proof of forced entry I believe it will be less costly to recover / repair.
YMMV
I think the above quote from CR reinforces that. Remote location thieves have time. In the city they don't want to take so much time and have more chance of neighbors hearing the thuds and crashes.
BTW, the game / thief cameras which were slightly obscured were stolen from where they were outside.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2016 07:54pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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That's what we face. They could chainsaw their way in and no neighbour would know. Still, we are in the position where some of our older possessions wouldn't be valued very high on any insurance claim, but they are so lightly used and well kept that despite their age they are like new and would be hard to replace with any amount we received from insurance.
With small stuff like chain saws, etc, maybe a secret hiding place would be the best option. Also maybe marking and/or etching one's name all over the items.
I don't know what anyone can do to really secure big items like canoes, outboards, generators, etc.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2016 09:15pm
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What about a super loud alarm- like a fog horn. No one might hear it, but they don't know that.
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2016 06:21am
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thats just terrible.i am so sorry.
i hope u get your belongings back.
but i am glad u guys are ok.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2016 07:33am
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Quoting: MtnDon I have come to the conclusion, belatedly, that strong doors and heavy duty deadbolts are better suited to the city or suburbs than to cabins in the woods
Unfortunately I came to the same conclusion after my last break in. Now cheap hasps and a small padlock to keep more honest people from snooping around. The damage repair is much easier.
Sadly, I just don't leave things I'm not willing to lose. I'm pretty sure the little the last thieves got away with, will keep them from making the effort to get to my place again. New thieves unfortunately won't know its not worth their while.
I have a number of cameras that work and even more that don't around the property. Some are very visible, just hard to get to, and some not so visible. I have lots of signs warning of cameras. Not sure if it deters anyone or not.
Sorry for your troubles mtndon.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2016 09:52am
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FishHog, re cameras... Talking with the two neighbors we do have, one told us he doesn't go looking around our place much when he is up there unless he hears us or sees us or our truck. He said he doesn't want to be seen on our cameras. We do have video surveillance signs and two cameras other than the game cameras that were stolen. The other 2 cameras are real, but not hooked up. So it seems the warning signs may keep away the honest folk more than the thieves.
Like cheap locks keep out the honest folks.
One of the aspects that is disturbing is that we have to alter what we do, what we want to have on hand, in order to minimize our risks.
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Just
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2016 10:48am
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Quoting: MtnDon One of the aspects that is disturbing is that we have to alter what we do, what we want to have on hand, in order to minimize our risks
At the hunt camp we have had to do the same thing , we only leave junk there now , The problem with that is I hate junk .
At the lake we have the solution , all be it expensive , it is a gated community with live 24 \ 7 security and controlled access,
[I feel your pain]
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FishHog
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2016 11:47am
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Quoting: MtnDon So it seems the warning signs may keep away the honest folk more than the thieves.
sadly that is probably true. I hate the fact that I have to work around what might get stolen also, but to get some isolation, you need to be isolated. I wish there was a better solution, but lethal force is frowned upon.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2016 02:59pm
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On the bright side, we have one person in jail and some sort of undisclosed links to many other break ins in the area. We also have names of 2 others but they are hiding. No word on any further goods recovery.
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