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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Jul 2015 08:15pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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I got this from a good friend....
"The House last week passed "H.R.1599 - Safe and Accurate Food Labeling Act of 2015" by a margin of 275-150. This law would deny states the ability to require producers of genetically engineered food products from having to disclose them to the public.
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The FDA must allow, but not require, GMO food to be labeled as GMO.
The FDA must regulate the use of "natural" on food labels.
This bill amends the Agricultural Marketing Act of 1946 to require the Agricultural Marketing Service to establish a program to certify non-GMO food.
This bill preempts state and local restrictions on GMOs or GMO food and labeling requirements for GMOs, GMO food, non-GMO food, or "natural" food.
A very few states have managed to pass laws requiring companies to label GMO food, just as at current count, 64 foreign countries have done. 100 million dollars later Monsanto has managed to get this bill passed to prevent this and to invalidate those state's labelling requirements... thank you representatives >
I've come to realize that most Americans really don't know what a genetically modified organism is, if you don't please google for a definition. As always, watch your sources, from both sides. What we are currently talking about is trangenesis of DNA from unrelated organisms. A relative representing hundreds of seed companies and his plant pathologist wife were here last week, the coming twist is sysgenesis, hopping evolution on the backs of viruses. I would certainly rather we didn't play God, we're not that bright. I do think we need to demand the right to know whether someone has tampered with our food. These folks are not interested in feeding the world, these are power brokers, the same people who brought us chemical warfare. The end game is who will control the food supply of the planet, who will get food. If they are as blinded as I think, it may end up being no one."
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Jul 2015 08:16pm
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In many places you get a lot of blank looks and "so-what" shoulder shrugs if you mention GMO. Very sad state of affairs. Mass confusion over the label "natural" as well.
This link shows how your rep voted, so you can ask them why or congratulate them. :o This time my rep agreed with me! Doesn't always happen. ???
While having one system of labeling for the entire country would be good, it is only good if the law means that the origin must be noted as GMO / Non GMO, IMO. There are lot of seemingly good points being made in favor of the bill. Like many Gov Bills the title is misleading.
Note, there is another bill, HR 913 that is a good bill but is still in committee. Call your rep button on that page
And on the good side... it is commonly thought that when the senate gets to its version of HR 1599 they will not pass it.
Right-to-know-gmo
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darz5150
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# Posted: 26 Jul 2015 09:29pm - Edited by: darz5150
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I read an article that Bill Nye the ( make up your own science ) guy recently visited Monsanto's St.Louis GMO head quarters. It said that he suggested that they voluntarily, and proudly label their GMO food type stuff, but after $100 million in litigation, Monsanto said " Read my lips...... No new labeling!"
That isn't a quote although I put it in quotation marks purely for humor sake.😂
It amazes me that the surgeon general requires labeling on cigarettes that says they pose a health risk, but nothing on GMO's that cause tumors etc. in rats in lab tests!!
In the '70's they warned of a mini ice age, then Al Gore started with global warming. Now its politically correct to say its climate change..
They just had to cancel an expedition to one of the Poles because there was too much ice.🎅 ho ho ho too much snow
How much more Weird Science do we need???
I think I am going to mix myself a drink, go outside and smoke a cigarette, and while I am out there I will make sure my neighbors cows aren' t farting too much, destroying the earth!! I might even look up and make sure the sky isn' t falling!
If no one hears from me after that, you all will know that chicken little was right and it will finally prove that she was the worlds greatest scientist and way smarter than Nostradamus.😱😵
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leonk
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# Posted: 26 Jul 2015 10:11pm
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Interesting law.
GMO labeling is big in Europe, Americans are certainly kept in the dark.
Monsanto developed technology to render seeds useless after a generation or two (so farmers have to buy new seeds instead of using part of the crop) and had US government pay for it 
I recently came across info about Gates foundation's part in Arctic seed vault project (Svalbard), very curious.
Controlling food is almost as much fun as controlling oil.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 26 Jul 2015 10:54pm
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The recent edition of the Union of Concerned Scientist's journal, "Catalyst" just came in the mail. It has an article summarizing the contents of over 80 internal documents from big oil companies and their trade groups obtained recently thru FOIA requests and other sources. These internal documents show conclusively that the oil companies have known for years that global warming is being caused by burning fossil fuels, and that they have been secretly been spending tens of millions of dollars to fund 'public interest' groups and other astroturf organizations to cast doubt on the science, even though they acknowledge the science in their internal documents.
The tobacco companies did the same thing, and so is Monsanto. As long as the public doesn't pay attention the corporate board types do whatever it takes to make next quarter's numbers look good. It's their job.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 12:00am
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Read up on Monsanto.... they do seem to go beyond the normal range of tricks in trying to make a profit. Research glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup. Here's one link Some studies suggest glyphosate may be worse than DDT.
As was stated in my OP, we should not play at being God, we're not that smart. I think that has been proved a few times over the past couple centuries.
The old Dupont slogan "Better Things for Better Living...Through Chemistry" was something I used to believe in. Now I cast a jaundiced eye at much of what is pushed on us by big business. Big government too for that matter.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 12:18am - Edited by: darz5150
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Well said.
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Pookie129
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 07:10am
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Clearly there are way more intelligent people on this forum than I, so I will leave the science to those more informed...however, I will say this, if anyone does choose to do the research or dig a little deeper, the increase in human and animal diseases, conditions, ailments, etc has a direct tie in with commercial farming and conglomerating of farming that has unfolded the last 25 plus years.
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Just
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 08:06am - Edited by: Just
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20 years ago I had a spot of skin cancer removed. It has 'not' come back' because' I quit hoeing in the hot son .I was able to quit hoeing because I switched my soy bean seed to GMO ,
ITS A ILL WIND 'just ' sayin
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creeky
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 08:43am
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the science on harm to the environment and those animals consuming the GMO materials is darn poor. short term studies by subsidized scientists is not enough.
glyphosate is already starting to fail as a control measure. i read an interesting article in a farming magazine I receive. the fellow has gone from seeding 30 inches apart and using glyphosate weed control (as it was no longer working on his fields) to seeding 10 inches apart and using the bean cover itself to control weeds. net result. an increase in harvest of 5-6 bushels an acre and lower overhead costs in spraying.
The world health organization now lists glyphosate as a 'probably carcinogenic'. There is substantial research that indicates a link to increased cancer in a broad population. Farmer's and their families of course taking the brunt of the load.
There is clear evidence linking it to bee and monarch butterfly declines.
To hide the fact that a product contains GMO and remove the freedom for the father or mother of a family to make choices on diet that protect her family, is, I believe, wrong.
good luck with getting that bill squashed.
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LastOutlaw
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 03:56pm
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GMO...taking control of American's food supply.
One day we all may have to beg them all for a bite.
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 05:49pm
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This thread is a good read. I enjoy learning peoples opinions on hot topics. If a conversation doesn't have a few opposing views, it can be rather lame.
I will point out that all you folks going Ape $hit about GMO's are expected to live more than twice as long as your forefathers in the 1900's.
Find a lagitimate point to make if you want to throw in your expertise.
Salty
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 06:22pm
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Dictionary definition of 'lagitimate'- "Intimacy that lags behind in relative intensity and passion from what it did at some point in the past, common amongst middle aged couples that have been together for some time".
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creeky
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 06:52pm
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ah, that explains the "testy" comment.
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 07:03pm
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Ok, so I bombed the spelling on that one. Big deal. I would rather misspell a good point than ramble all day with Webster like accuracy.
Craig
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leonk
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2015 07:36pm
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Quoting: LastOutlaw taking control of American's food supply.
not Americal, world.
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creeky
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2015 11:11am - Edited by: creeky
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Quoting: LastOutlaw One day we all may have to beg them all for a bite.
or pay them for a cure
not that I'm paranoid or anything
hey Salty. lifespan has increased, in good part, due to antibiotics (say thank you to Mr. Flemming, a Canadian!) and childhood medicine / birth improvements.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2015 02:50pm
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Quoting: creeky lifespan has increased, in good part, due to antibiotics (say thank you to Mr. Flemming, a Canadian!) and childhood medicine / birth improvements.
Not to forget about improved sanitation which also helped improve the safety of drinking water. How about seat belts. Compare the ambulance and ER of today to those of even the 1940's. Less tobacco use......
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2015 03:19pm
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They say that simple indoor plumbing waste lines are responsible for more of our better health the last 100 years than any other single source. A sobering thought for those that experiment with 'alternative' waste disposal methods.
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creeky
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2015 03:35pm
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Time to quibble!
Oddly, not one of the first three google results for "reasons for longer life expectancy" lists plumbing waste lines ...
"Reduced infant mortality, more than any single contributing factor, has been responsible for the spectacular rise in American life expectancy"
"decline from high to low fertility; a steady increase in life expectancy at birth and at older ages; and a shift in the leading causes of death and illness from infectious and parasitic diseases" (this one could reflect better water/sanitation)
"This increase can be attributed to a number of factors including improvements in public health, nutrition and medicine. Vaccinations and antibiotics greatly reduced deaths in childhood"
Broken down even further. My area of Canada has an unusually high death rate in men over 50. Gulp.
Okay. It's about a billion degrees outside and I'm trapped in an air conditioned living room.
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2015 07:46pm
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creeky
My response disappeared. Moderator has had enough. Sorry pal, you would've loved it. Oh, and I was slamming my country not yours.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2015 09:32pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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A good read on life expectancy increases...
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science_of_longevity/2013/09/life_ex pectancy_history_public_health_and_medical_advances_that_lead_to.html
Drinking water is mentioned as a factor.
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smallworks
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# Posted: 4 Aug 2015 10:35pm
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Quoting: leonk I recently came across info about Gates foundation's part in Arctic seed vault project (Svalbard), very curious. Controlling food is almost as much fun as controlling oil.
Water's funnier.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2015 10:06pm - Edited by: Don_P
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I've been reading an interesting book "Altered Genes, Twisted Truth" by Steven Druker a lawyer who has been involved in this for about 20 years. An interesting read, thus far mostly about the politics behind genetic modification. I do remember some of the early work from about 30 years ago when my wife was working for a land grant universiry. Things were quite controlled and in labs. During the Reagan years we were realizing we had already lost the computer revolution and were trying to take the lead in GM, regulation was removed for awhile based on the assumptions of microbiologists. There was a feeling that no harm could come from any genetic relese into the environment. As ecologists began asking questions, some of research was very short sighted. One project that was being developed was inserting scorpion venom into toadstools to poison slugs in gardens. They were using a venom that is non toxic to mammals and thought they had considered all the possible ramifications of a release into the environment. An ecologist asked "Have you checked it on other insects, especially beneficials like honeybees and earthworms?" Blank stare. "Have you checked what a buildup of the toxin does to microbes in the soil as these plants break down?" "Do you understand that toxicity and allergic reactions are two seperate issues and people die regularly from allergic reactions?" "Birds?" "Cross pollination with similar species?" Blank stares all around. This was not an isolated incident. A blanket statement by the FDA that genetic modification is safe doesn't take into account the broad potential of playing with the building blocks of life.
I guess my point in retelling that is I remember an experiment that was pretty far along and halted during my wife's tenure. Absent peer review, regulation, and any possibility of public awareness people can and will put on their blinders and do some really stupid things, arrogantly thinking in that vacuum that they have covered all the bases. For all our smarts we have a very vague understanding all of the interrelationships that make this planet tick.
What is going on right now in Congress is just the latest attempt at denying the public that sunshine. We do have a right to know what someone is selling us, that is the basis of food labelling laws. These are attempts to subvert those consumer protections. People always have the right to remain ignorant by not reading the labels and researching the products they purchase. The debate now under way is whether the biotech industry has the right to keep everyone from knowing what is in the products they are eating.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2015 01:13am
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Don_P
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2015 07:22am
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Again, watch sources, however this is a well documented although much disputed case, the first "food" product created by genetic modification, a dietary supplement. Best estimates are that around 10,000 people were affected to some degree, multiple deaths did occur. The symptoms were severe and fast, so it showed up on our radar fairly quickly. Of potentially more concern are reactions that are slower and might hide in the background for a long time.
http://responsibletechnology.org/gmo-dangers/health-risks/L-tryptophan/ems-deaths
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creeky
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# Posted: 9 Aug 2015 08:04am
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Hey Salty, at least you guys are finally getting something close to universal health care. If you look at the top countries for lifespan they all have free universal health care.
I wish we could all do as well as the northern European countries (Norway, etc). Or France. Lower cost per person and better results. Gee, think we could learn something there?
Don_P. Great posts. When GMO corn first came out there was a bunch of pig farmers complaining about reproductive anomalies (ie. no litters). Holy cow did that get covered up fast.
MtnDon. I was with you on water. I could have made that more clear. I was quibbling about "waste pipes" being the prime factor in extended lifespans.
It's an unfortunate fact that thousands of chemical compounds are in use today with little or no good research behind them. And research on the effects of these substances combining in the real world. Well it's called field research and we are all guinea pigs. Take a look at the skyrocketing cancer rate for early results.
Well. Act local think global I guess. I keep my chemical use to a minimum. I try to eat wisely. I try to minimize my "consumption." And I try to promote awareness of problems and solutions.
Human beings might be a little daft in the donut but we do learn and adapt. Geez. We cleaned up acid rain. We stopped using lead in pipes and gas.
We do seem to need a "democracy 2.0a" with better sociopath control. You know, a filter to remove the effects of those with poor moral and empathic intelligence. (See, bankers, wall street, chemical dumpers etc. all those who belief in profit over people).
I don't know what that filter might be. I do hope though, as the general IQ goes up in the world, some bright young person will come up with one.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 9 Aug 2015 10:39am
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Quoting: creeky I do hope though, as the general IQ goes up in the world, some bright young person will come up with one.
Sadly, I'm not sure the general population IQ is going up.
And yes, our waste water is inexorably tied to our drinking water, or vice versa. Which came first...
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 9 Aug 2015 12:02pm
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Quoting: creeky getting something close to universal health care.
Close, but no cigar.
You may not believe the crap you have to go through to get insurance if you do not belong to a group through a large employer. Wading through the many available plans is an ordeal. And being that you are dealing with insurance companies there are "gotchas" you have to clear. All sorts of different co-pays and deductibles. Once a plan is found you need to see if the doctor you prefer will accept the insurance, or accept a new patient with that insurance. And you need to do this annually.
I'm old enough to qualify for Medicare so my out of pocket is low compared to what I was paying before I hit age 65.
One of my big complaints about the US system is that even if you have good coverage you can get bit in the rear by circumstances. If you have a health emergency and the EMS takes you to the "wrong" hospital for instance. Wrong being one your insurance company does not list. You will get a large bill from the hospital. You are expected to pay. That may take a year or longer to sort out and your insurance company will still be sticking it to you in all likelihood.
Pardon my thread drift / rant.........
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creeky
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# Posted: 9 Aug 2015 12:16pm
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That's too bad. Re: universal health care.
America is supposed to be the richest country by GDP in the world. It boggles the mind that something as important as health care is denied to anyone. I would imagine that also plays a role in your countries average lifespan being 30th on the hit parade.
But ya. There's pretty good evidence that general population IQ (which there are about a billion variables here) has been increasing at 1 point per decade since about 1870.
Picking up speed from the 80s on. You know, removing lead from gas was huge.
I hope the stats are right on this and its not just "bias". I'm counting on all those young brainiacs for my pension income.
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