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neb
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 12:30am
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I was wondering if you can bump start a 4 stroke gas engine which has a forward, neutral and reverse. If I can push it in neutral then shift it into forward would this hurt the engine in any way. I want this ATV for the cabin but battery is always bad. Any thoughts?
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ICC
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 12:39am - Edited by: ICC
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if it operates like an automatic transmission, increase engine speed and it then starts moving on its own it has a centrifugally actuated clutch much like a chain saw. The engine has to run fast enough to make the auto clutch mechanism grab. So if the engine does not run or is not running it can not be bump started. If it had a manual clutch like a regular motorcycle it could be bump started; but then it would have 4 or more fwd gears
Get a new battery and a very small PV panel or a larger one with a simple charge controller. That will keep the battery up and the CC will prevent overcharging. 5 watts or less is all that you should need for a small battery like ATV's use.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 12:40pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Yes, but it will depend on how the automatic transmission works.
These use a snowmobile type clutch/drive system, where you have an expanding/contracting pulleys on the drive end and driven end. As the drive one compressed on the belt, it get a narrower and narrower forcing the belt further up and outward (like changing to a larger diameter pulley), while the rear starts out as narrow and get wider and wider forcing the belt inward (like a smaller pulley). So its like the size of the pulleys change from small to big and big to small giving you your CVT or constant variable transmission. The problem with trying to push start these is it may take some effort such as a steep hill or assist from a tow rig and it may not have enough belt bite (slippage) to still roll over the engine. The engine running is what bites down on the pulley tightening it up with some engine RPM (such as some throttle off idle)
In short, i t may work, it may not. More than likely not. But its still worth a try.
Can you fix the starting problem? Will it not start? Biggest culprit for no start is setting over the winter without "pickling" or prepping it for storage. Cab needs to be drained of all fuel, or have fuel stabilizer installed and the carb kept full of gas (not allowed to evaporate away) this is done by turning the fuel on for a minute every 2 weeks or so. Some rigs have the auto shut off fuel petcock. You can tell these by looking at the marking on it. It will read "PRI" "ON" and "RESERVE". In the o n position, these only flow fuel when the engine is running (uses a manifold vacuum signal) so having this on and not running is off. That is where you want to store it. But every 2 weeks, turn it on to "PRI" for prime for a minute. This allows fuel to flow with the engine off.
If its a std petcock, it will just read "OFF" "ON" and "RESERVE", leave that o ff and just flip it to reserve for a minute only, do this also once every 2 weeks.
The carb drying out results in oxidation on the carb and is almost certainly going to plug the idle circuit (some times called a pilot circuit or slow speed) and this is where it gets it fuel to start.
But the good news, it can be fixed usually without spending a dime, just remove the carb, disassemble, cleaned, reinstall it. But be warned, lots of small parts. A job for a modestly trained person. A can of brake cleaner with a stray to spray though passages usually does it.
Motorcycle and ATV battery's should not get more than 1/2 amp max for charging, but ideally is only 1/4 amp (250 milliamps) and then for only about 6-8 hours. 4 hours if you use a 1/2 amp.
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ICC
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 01:05pm
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I can roll ours down a hill and get up to 20+ mph and it doesn't grab. However the small Honda has a recoil starter for if or when the battery craps out.
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neb
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 06:01pm
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toyota_mdt_tech
Thanks so much for the advise! What I did was buy a 125cc ATV from a none brand name company. I will be getting it this week and I have seen where there has been issues with some that have owned them. I bought it so I don't always have to walk in to the cabin. It is very light and will be easy to load and unload. It will not get used much and will be driven on flat ground. I just need a ride from point A to point B sometimes. You have been a big help and if I have any more qustions may I ask them? Thanks
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 09:20pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Absolutely Neb. I have been playing with OHV's both quads and dirt bikes for the better part of my life and the last 8 we had a junior motocross team, plus being a mechanic helps too. Holler anytime.
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neb
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 09:48pm
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Holler anytime.
Man that is awesome my friend! I really appreciate that and sure you know the machine. 125cc with F/N/R I hope it works out for me. Thanks again!
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littlesalmon4
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 09:58pm
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You will not be able to bump start it if it has a cvt transmission.
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neb
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2013 10:31pm
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littlesalmon4
Boy I'm not sure what I'm getting. LOL I would say the best is to keep up the battery but was wondering in a pinch.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2013 11:13am
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neb, the little "knock off" quads are OK, price is low. Quality is fair at best. But if its used just for getting to and from and not any hard work, it should be ok. Other issue with these is the parts availability. They dont have any parts network in place. You can get parts for them for a year or maybe two after they are new at best. Then after that, its all done. And that is usually just common parts (fast moving) otherwise, no parts. Many times they are clones of an existing model, you can match up some things. But if it works out for you, and you decide its something you must always have, then you can make a more permanent upgrade to one of the big name units later. I have a Suzuki Eiger 400 in 4WD, its classified as a utility quad. (they have "sport", "utility" and some build "sport utility") They have much bigger ones. But this has the hitch, a Warn 2500 lb winch, racks front and rear and its been so handy around the house, cabin hunting etc. I use mine to fetch water, can carry lots of my 8 gallon water jugs, drive to my gate to close it in the evening and open it in the AM, haul logs out of the woods to cut for firewood, I have a Kolpin saw press which hauls my Stihl chainsaw... endless possibilities.
A great place for accessories for utility quads is http://www.montanajacks.com/
Take a peek in there, you'd be surprised at what you can do with a powerful 4WD utility quad. Just short of a tractor. You can get all kinds of tow behind implements, sprayers, gang mowers for these things.
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neb
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2013 10:12pm
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toyota_mdt_tech
Yep I will most likely regret my decision on this off brand ATV. Yes the price was right but also know you get what you pay for. I have a brand name 500 but is heavy and hard to haul for me so I wanted a light weight small machine to ride in and out and that is all I will do with it. I just hope it is worth that. I have a small pickup so the big one doesn't fit for beans. I have a full sized pickup but don't like to use it in the back country. So that is where I'm at. I see a lot of bad reviews on these machines but will give it a try. Do you know anyone that has owned one and and their experiences with one? Yep I could up grade in a few years to a brand name machine if this is what works for me. Thanks again and I might or will have some more question for you. LOL
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2013 11:02am
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Brand name might fool you. All the small name brand wheelers are Chinese. You could just buy an off brand in the first place. I have a Adly 90cc I bought new for $400. Adly builds the smaller Polaris, You probably have heard how much they sell them for.
I use the little one for my needs sometimes too. It has both electric start and kick, high/ low and rev. gears. We love this thing. We've had it for three years now.
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neb
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2013 04:11pm - Edited by: neb
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Here is one I bought and yes Chinese made good or bad I'm just saying. I installed it and have done some research and did everything to prevent problems others have had. I can buy 6 of these machine for the price of a brand name one. I'm sure there maybe parts that are not as good BUT you can buy parts for these for little or nothing or put brand name parts on them also. It seems to be just fine and runs good. This will not be used much but if it is to muddy I will use it to commute from shack to truck. I love to walk but sometimes I would like to get in faster and can do some hauling but not much.
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2013 04:22pm
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Two things I've found on Chinese motorcycles in the past, not mine, but others I've fixed. Sometimes they don't clean all the metal particles from the carb. and the other is they don't make good rubber. Hoses etc. seem to rot in short order.
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neb
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2013 04:48pm
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OC < that is right! I have bought new fuel line hose added shut off valve and installed inline filters. I locktighted most bolts and will use good gas. The rubber is bad what they tell me also but when they go bad just have to replace them with something better. I do agree they are cheaper built there is no question about that. They need more TLC then the brand names and may need to be checked more often. The frames are biult lighter and not as good of iron like the brand names. With how I'm going to use this unit it should be fine but time will tell. LOL
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