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Martian
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 08:39am
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I recently attended a 'town hall' meeting with my congressman in which I stood and expressed my opinion. While I was polite, waited my turn, and spoke in a respectful manner, within hours, I was receiving reports of someone checking into my life. It seems some people don't like it when the 'party line' gets challenged.
Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but it does send a chill up my spine to have unknown persons making inquiries. Not that its going to stop me from expressing myself; if anything, it will make me more vocal in my opposition to his policies. I'm willing to suffer the consequences of opposing the status quo, but I'd hate for my friends to be subjected to scrutiny because my positions.
It seems "Free Speech" is not really free if one has to worry about repercussions.
Tom
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 08:49am
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Lets see a photo of your cabin.
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 08:57am - Edited by: Martian
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Quoting: Anonymous Lets see a photo of your cabin.
Look up the one taken by a black helicopter. 
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Rossman
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 09:53am
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Unsurprising. Mccarthyism never really went anywhere.
This happens to anyone that questions the party line, be it G8/G20 protestors or just a guy with a cabin like you.
A great reason to get as disconnected from the system as possible.
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MJW
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 11:24am
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Not surprising at all. Orwell was 100% correct. He was just off by a couple of years.
This is exactly why we have taken great pains to make everything about us as private as possible.
Nothing in our names including bank accounts, cars, rv, etc. (all trusts and private New Mexico LLCs) no home address on anything, all mail received at a nominee location.
These are easy things to do and most of them have no cost.
Even the loyalty cards we carry for grocery stores, drug stores and the like have bogus info attached to them.
Our place we are building will be 100% off grid.
There are levels of privacy and even the top level can be penetrated by anyone with enough money to do so. The goal is to make you and your family's business as totally private as possible to anyone except those with the bottomless bag of money aka the government.
I like knowing that even those guys will have to work it a bit to find my stuff. 
Jack was giving this book away a while back after he updated it so I don't think it will be a problem if I share it here. If the webmaster has a problem with it, please delete it.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 11:28am
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Quoting: Rossman get.. disconnected from the system
If by that it is meant to become as as independent as we can in the areas of food, power and so on, I agree.
If that is meant to mean to dis-associate oneself from society, involvement in government, I disagree.
I'm with Martian with regards to political involvement. It can be unrewarding, it can be like smacking yourself over the head with a 2x4, but it is the only means to make your opinions known and to maybe make a difference. I've always maintained that if one does not try to make a difference then one has no right to complain about the outcome.
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groingo
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 11:39am
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I used to be involved in small town politics for many years, I soon saw it for what it really was and decided my time was better spent on me but I did have my fun rattling their cages from time to time.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 11:56am - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: Martian I recently attended a 'town hall' meeting with my congressman in which I stood and expressed my opinion. While I was polite, waited my turn, and spoke in a respectful manner, within hours, I was receiving reports of someone checking into my life.
Martian, interesting. How did you know they were checking into you? How did they know your name? Did you sign in on a roster? Did they pre screen all attendees? Maybe the search was the check on attendees is all????
How about a reps full name?
Remember how they tried to destroy "Joe the plumber" too?
I'm with Mt Don, politics can be unrewarding, but if you dont know whats going on or become involved (you need to be an informed voter who cast votes) then they will run right over you.
I commend you for taking the time out of your day to attend and voice an opinion.
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Martian
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 12:51pm
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TMT, I stated my name when I got up to speak, and I was contacted by a friend that was questioned about me. They didn't relate who did the questioning, and I didn't inquire so as to not put them in a bad situation. The congressman's name is Tim Huelskamp (R) KS. We were not pre-screened; it was a public forum.
I am a firm believer that, if you want someone to know how you feel, you have to tell them. I doubt very seriously if I'll change that about myself. They are always free to do as they please with the information, but I have the satisfaction of at least knowing they know how I feel.
If more people took the time to get informed and involved, it wouldn't take long for politicians to act in a manner that benefited all of us instead of just a few. Voting is the one place where we all have the same amount of influence. It doesn't matter who you are, or how much money you contribute, each of us still only gets one vote. That makes your vote just as important as anybody elses.
I may just be being paranoid, or it could have to do with the interview I gave to an AP reporter, who was covering the meeting, afterwards. I really don't know, and I'm not too anxious to poke around. It may be that Joe the Plumber will have to share the limelight with me. Whatever the reason, I'm not going to quit giving my opinion, but it does feel strange to know that what I had to say could make someone ask, "Who is this guy?" Must have struck a nerve with my comment.
Tom
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 04:56pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: Martian but it does feel strange to know that what I had to say could make someone ask, "Who is this guy?" Must have struck a nerve with my comment. Tom
Tom, a quote I heard that seems to apply here is "you know you are over the target if you are getting flack".
I'd be willing to bet it was just another reporter inquiring. You got the AP interview, so you must of made a dent anyway. 
Just did some research on him,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/08/tim-huelskamp-fundraises-_n_2431440.html?utm _hp_ref=politics
I wish my represenative was more inline with yours. Mine is Denny Heck, D-Wa 10th district.  Brand new district.
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 06:06pm - Edited by: Martian
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No, you really don't.
Its not his message, its the messenger. He would rather argue than solve a problem. That's why he was recently kicked off the Ways and Means and the Ag Committees in the House. The same thing happened when he was a State Senator. Now, for the first time in 100 years, there is no representative from Kansas on the Ag Committee. He has been moved to the Veteran's Committee, and I worry he'll stir up trouble there, too. I'm a vet.
As I explained to him, "When you're dying from thirst, you don't turn down a sip of water just because you didn't get a full glass." That's his attitude; all or nothing. He is one of the reasons nothing gets done. At these meetings, he spends a lot of time telling us what he hasn't been able to do. I'd rather hear about the steps we had taken to get our problems solved; not the impossible to ever do. Meanwhile, we keep going in the wrong direction.
I'll get off my soapbox now. Seriously, you and I may differ one how we'd go about it, but I think we both want to see spending go down and the deficit brought under control. From what I read, there is no way in hell its going to happen without some more money coming in from somewhere. If it requires me to pay a little more for them to reach an agreement to lower the deficit and eventually start paying down the debt, okay. I question the veracity of people who tell me they want to reduce the deficit, and then not be willing to take the steps to get there. But, that's just my opinion.
Tom
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 07:56pm
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Quoting: Martian you and I may differ one how we'd go about it, but I think we both want to see spending go down and the deficit brought under control. From what I read, there is no way in hell its going to happen without some more money coming in from somewhere. If it requires me to pay a little more for them to reach an agreement to lower the deficit and eventually start paying down the debt, okay. I question the veracity of people who tell me they want to reduce the deficit, and then not be willing to take the steps to get there. But, that's just my opinion.
I'd bet we dont differ much, if at all. I got my impression of your rep from his webpage and one knows they tend to embellish to sound appealing to the reader.
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Rossman
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2013 11:39pm
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech I'm with Mt Don, politics can be unrewarding, but if you dont know whats going on or become involved (you need to be an informed voter who cast votes) then they will run right over you.
See, the problem with this is that this only works when the system is operating as it is designed. Unfortunately our current "democracy" is just a sham where the will of the people is not represented, but we get to feel as though we had some choice so we are all somehow ok with it. They are running right over us now and have been successfully doing so for quite some time.
Quoting: Martian As I explained to him, "When you're dying from thirst, you don't turn down a sip of water just because you didn't get a full glass." That's his attitude; all or nothing. He is one of the reasons nothing gets done.
Yeah, that's not really just him, that's how our whole system is designed. It's engineered to prevent forward progress by keeping people bickering over ridiculous things in perpetuity.
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Martian
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 08:46am
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Quoting: Rossman prevent forward progress by keeping people bickering over ridiculous things in perpetuity.
The modern equivalent of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.
The one thing a politician needs, more than money, is votes. They can spend tons of money, but we still get to make our own decision. If we are informed and active, they will react to us. My greatest wish is that we have elections in which 80%. or more, of the eligible voters vote. To have voter turnouts in the 30-40% range, and the winner decided by 50% of those, gives us government from both parties' extreme ends. A representative government can only function effectively when those being represented express their opinion through their vote.
I believe, and studies prove this out, the more people involved in making a decision, the greater the likelihood of that decision solving the problem. If this discussion does nothing but motivate some of you to get more involved, get more educated on the issues, and get out and vote, then whatever discomfort I am feeling will have been worth it.
It may be that I'll never know who was inquiring, or why they were making the inquiries. It may be that I'll get blacklisted, my friends may be harassed, and my life disected. But, as our Founding Father's stated, ""For the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.", we can do no less if we expect to keep the nation they gave us.
Tom
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Rossman
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 10:52am
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Yeah, I guess I've just lost faith that we'll ever get that many people out voting. I have no doubt things would work better if they did.
It feels like at this point we may as well just dissolve the govt and put Walmart in charge and call it a day, and we'd have about the same results.
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Martian
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 11:07am - Edited by: Martian
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Rossman, Walmart is a success because they give the people what they want. They know what people want because people tell them what they want. We have to tell our politicians what we want if we expect them to be successful in governing. I can't tell them what you want; only you can do that.
If we lose hope in our ability to make a difference, then we will get the country that others say we want. Its just like Walmart; when enough people ask for something, they stock it. So, when enough people ask for a particular something from our government, they get it. It may not be what you wanted, but it is what the people who spoke up want.
All I'm saying is don't let your voice go unheard when you think something is going wrong or going right. We all lose.
Tom
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Kudzu
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 05:32pm
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Martian, you got a cabin?
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 05:54pm
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Yep.
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Rossman
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 06:01pm
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Oh I still get out and vote, don't get me wrong. I just recognize that the system I am participating is effectively corrupt and a complete sham, that really only gives us the illusion of choice.
The problem is that it doesn't matter who you vote for because the corporations have bought all the sides, so it doesn't really matter who gets in, unfortunately.
The whole system needs a reboot
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 06:03pm
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Quoting: Kudzu Martian, you got a cabin?
I see what you are doing. He is posting this in the "off topic" section.
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 06:03pm
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Quoting: Rossman The whole system needs a reboot
On that, we definitely agree!
Tom
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 08:50pm - Edited by: trollbridge
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:How disheartening! Hopefully this curiosity will pass soon or perhaps it is just a little bit of paranoia. 
I see Congressman Huelskamp doesn't play very nice with others and he so far is running unopposed with the candidate deadline coming up. Are you thinking about running against him? Could it be that he perceives you as a threat? A little intimidation now will save him lots of headaches in the future...I'm sure he would rather not have anyone challenge him in 2014.
You may be better off persuading the general public to get off their duffs and vote! A motivational speaker of sorts. You could begin a foundation that motivates and encourages all eligible voters to make it a priority to vote. It would be a wonderful thing to have a 80% voter turnout! You may not be able to change peoples negative opinions of the majority our politicians but if you could return a feeling of pride in voting, it would be an incredible feat!
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Martian
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 09:18pm
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Quoting: trollbridge Are you thinking about running against him?
Can't you just see me giving a stump speech in front of my cabin? The guard bees could intimidate the press!
I'm probably more suited for a behind the scenes role based on some of the choices I've made over the years. I can hear them now, "You've been married how many times?"
Quoting: trollbridge You may be better off persuading the general public to get off their duffs and vote! A motivational speaker of sorts.
This would be fun as a diversion from day to day life. You can be my booking agent.
Tom
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 09:39pm - Edited by: trollbridge
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The bees would probably intimidate the press-bzzzzzzzzz...swat ouuuuch!
As unnerving as it may be having ??? Poking around in your life, it will probably pass soon-especially if you aren't considering a life in politics. Keep annoying your congressman-if nothing else it will provide you with the satisfaction of knowing you are keeping him on his toes
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Martian
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 09:57pm
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Quoting: trollbridge As unnerving as it may be having ??? Poking around in your life, it will probably pass soon-especially if you aren't considering a life in politics.
I hope so. It would be nice to send an email to someone and not wonder if it was going to become public at some point. With the way things can be taken out of context these days, and passed off as truth, my conversations have been pretty guarded. Maybe I'll hear more when I get out into the world next week.
Meanwhile, my friends know how I feel.
Tom
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 10:17pm
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Yes,you will have to keep us all posted on this...I wonder if poor ol 'Joe the Plumber' has recovered yet?
Your friends know the kind of guy you are- I wouldn't worry about it Like I frequently remind myself when I get stressed "this too shall pass"! 
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exsailor
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2013 10:51am
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Quoting: Martian Seriously, you and I may differ one how we'd go about it, but I think we both want to see spending go down and the deficit brought under control. From what I read, there is no way in hell its going to happen without some more money coming in from somewhere. If it requires me to pay a little more for them to reach an agreement to lower the deficit and eventually start paying down the debt, okay. I question the veracity of people who tell me they want to reduce the deficit, and then not be willing to take the steps to get there. But, that's just my opinion.
For the most part our government doesn't have an income problem; it does have a spending problem. We can raise taxes to solve our Debt Problem in this country, but he politicians would just spend more because they have "new income". I am a firm believer everybody in the nation has to pay tax. If the student doesn't earn enough to pay taxes he pays X% on what he would get back. Same for people using tax credits to eliminate taxes. Say just 2 or 3 percent. Once you have skin in the game your whole perspective changes. The extra income from this everybody minimum tax would HAVE to be spent on the Government debt. Let the IRS do something constructive for a change. They are the obvious people to channel specific funds to a specific destination. Ever notice how politicians, who say they don't pay enough in taxes and use that as an argument to tax the rich never file short form and take all the deductions they can, just look at our president. I am not rich, but ever notice historically tax income drops after the tax rate is raised on the "rich" and increases when the tax rate is reduced. I can't hire people but the rich have the resources to create jobs. New regulations and laws make the wage price an employer has to pay in the future uncertain, so new jobs aren't created and full time employees get their hours reduced, so certain employment expense are still kept manageable. Okay I will get of my soap box now.
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Martian
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2013 11:33am
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You are making the argument I hear all the time; they'll just keep spending if we give them more. To that I say, not if we hold their feet to the fire. That's where our responsibility come in. If we scream for tax increases, not for more spending, but to get our debt under control, and they spend it on other things, then we should find a new representative.
At this point, we have two choices: continue to borrow money or do a combination of spending reductions and tax increases to reduce the excess outflow. We are in a hole. Do we keep digging or do we fill in the hole? Even if we quit digging, the hole still exist. Its only when we get some dirt back into it, that the hole will filled.
There is one common theme among those that have money regardless of political party affiliation; they all HATE to pay taxes. Hell, I hate to pay taxes, and I don't have much money, at all. If the tax code still recognizes capital investments as tax deductions, then the job creators will invest to avoid taxes. As it is, they take the profits as dividends because the tax liability is so low on dividends. Capital improvements increase the value of their holdings without increasing their tax burdens; therfore, in the long run, higher taxes lead to more capital expenditures which benefit more than just the stock holders.
But, what we have seen over the last 30 years, is that lower tax rates have not lead to more employment, higher wages, or more benefits. All of these are tax deductions for corporations which they no longer need to use in order to maximize corporate value/profits. Basically, the past 30 years has shown us that lower tax rates do nothing for the economy as a whole, but have resulted in the wealthy investors accumulating even more wealth. Meanwhile, the middle class has shrunk. Without us, the economy is in deep do-do. Which is better? Having 1000 people spending a $1000 or having 1 person spend $1,000,000? I suggest to you, that the 1000 will have a greater impact than the 1 on Mainstreet businesses.
But, that's just my thought on taxes. You are free to have whatever opinion your experience, research, and lifestyle dictate for you. I firmly believe that we are a country ruled by majority opinion, and everyone's opinion carries the same weight. When more people believe one way over another, that is the way we should go. Its up to us to convince others that our opinions are valid and, thereby, build a majority to lead us in that direction.
Getting on a soapbox, every now and then, is a good thing. We all should do it.
Tom
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MJW
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2013 12:12pm
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Tom,
You are quite an optimist. I wish I still was.
Unfortunately, I fear that our once great country will never again be the same as it once was.
Sad but this makes alot of sense to me...no matter who wrote it as that is sometimes subject to debate.
Is This Where We Are Heading?
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Rossman
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2013 12:13pm
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Quoting: MJW You are quite an optimist. I wish I still was.
Same man, same :-/
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