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hattie
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2012 09:48pm
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This is a troubling time, when our beautiful children are gunned down in their schools by crazed gunmen.
My deepest sympathy and prayers to the families devastated by this horrific massacre. May you feel the comfort of God's angels as they wrap their heavenly arms around you during your grief.
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larry
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2012 10:14pm
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i don't know what to say about that. i cant imagine having so much hate as to hurt children. may the gunman rot in hell.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2012 11:37pm
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Sounds like he was mentally challenged . . . I feel for his brother who today also lost family . . . and will carry stigma. . . .the parents of innocent children . . . the family of the principal . . . a very, very, very sad day . . . 
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2012 11:28am
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thank u hattie for this post.i wanted to post but was so heartbroken i did not know how to approach this subject.
i wailed and cried and prayed to God when i heard.i am so heartbroken i can not believe this could happen.
a horrific day for all concerned.we just had the mall shooting near where we live and now this across the country.
some of it reminds me of all these killing video games all these kids play daily hour by hour.
they said the man who shot the shoppers at the mall near us was wearing a mask much like in grand theft auto.
it is a sad day for our country.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2012 11:48am - Edited by: PA_Bound
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This tragedy is just so wrong on so many levels that I'm at a loss for words on even how to respond. As a parent I am both furious and profoundly saddened at the same time. Yet all I can do is pray that each family affected finds peace, support and, ulitimately, healing as this event continues to unfold.
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rayyy
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2012 12:24pm
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I just don't understand,,,,,,,I just don't understand.Life is just soooo precious,,,why?
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TheWildMan
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2012 01:21pm
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watching on CNN at wifi hotspot. now they are talking how this demonstrates a need for gun laws. that this guy was mentally ill, yadda yadda, BS. they should issue guns to teachers, if the teachers were armed this kinda thing couldn't happen. who knows what the guys mental state was, terrorists hit weak targets that maximize fear.
the people on TV are saying guns should be banned, a year ago 40 kids in china (elementary school) were hacked down by a lone nut with a butcher knife, he couldn't get a gun so targeted kids (who couldn't fight back), its a rising trend in gun control countries that schools are targeted by knife weilding maniacs. the weapons don't matter, its the nutcase holding them, unarmed targets are easy targets. issue guns to all the teachers and this kinda thing won't happen (shooter would be shot too quickly)
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Malamute
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2012 01:55pm - Edited by: Malamute
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It is profoubdly sad, with no easy answers as to why, or what makes people do such horrible things.
Prayers up for all involved, families, friends, others that were at the school, and all close to them.
And with all due respect to all, lets resist the temptation to make this a political thread about guns, or not.
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2012 02:24pm
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Quoting: TheWildMan they should issue guns to teachers
TheWildMan...i happen to agree with u 100%.a gun under a locked cabinet or guards at the school entrace.an armed guard.it is a sad situation but i agree.i think we should have our guns.i know us cabineers in the woods need them not so much against people but animals.and we can feed ourselves.so i think this happens to make alot of sense what u are saying.
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Kharkov43
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2012 08:18pm
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It's really sad what our Nation has turned into.
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shooter mcgavin
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2012 09:12pm
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It takes a lot to bring me to tears.
Yesterday did it.
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reddly
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2012 10:08pm
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I think, and hope that we can move past our own sadness, fear, frutration and rage and focus on 2 very important things.
The first being support. Those familys, the teachers familys and even the gun mans family have all lost loved ones and are going through a horrible circumstance that most of us can't imagine, and hopefully will never truely know. It is important to try to show support and strength for these unfortunate people that are suffering. It is important to try to help them. I'm not sure how many of us could, but it is important to try. These familys will be suffering from such a terrible loss that most of us will never understand how they could pick themselves up and carry on. It falls on the rest of us to help them up and walk with them one step at a time each day.
And secondly how to find a way to avoid this kind of trajedy from ever happening again. There have been a few multiple shootings at schools in recent years. It doesn't seem that we've been able to put a stop to these things from happening. I don't know if more security is needed, I don't believe that gun control is exactly the answer. Perhaps gun control in your own home, locked cabinets or trigger locks... or perhaps better care and attention paid to the mentally unstable, or safe guards at schools. I don't know. I'm not sure what would work, or how anything would work. But I would rather try these things instead of doing nothing and watching more tragedies happen. No one deserves this kind of pain. We need to try to stop the possibility of things like this from happening.
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bobrok
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2012 04:33pm
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Quoting: Kharkov43 It's really sad what our Nation has turned into.image.jpg
X2 and thank you for the post. I kind of feel that this forum is one of the few places where we can say things like this to others who may understand.
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TheWildMan
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# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 10:29am
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malamute, please don't misunderstand my comments, I was watching what was on CNN, were the big media outlets talking about the tradgety and asking people to help eachg other, especially at a time of year known fore generosity? were they showing hoow people were helping each other cope? creating a charity organizatuion to help the families? no, they were reporting only a few aspects that push specificc political views, using metaphore and catch phrases that persuade, pushing political views into an emotionally charged event, the outcome is to play on peoples emotions to facilitate some political goal. as much as i was disgusted by this guys actions, I was horrified and disgusted that the media was already pushing one sided political views to sway public opinion their way even as the victims were being carried away. a lot of the words they chose had been chosen and scripted to incite emotional frevor.
my comment was fueled by anger at the way the media was pushing political views into a disaster to take advantage of an emotionally charged situation, and this morning i am reading in the paper that several state legeslations are trying to push anti gun laws, edged on by the populace who were swayed to think that this will prevent future travesties. China is one of thje biggest gun control nations in the world, they have (if you read a lot from world events) seen a rising trend where nutcases who can't get guns have gotten big knives and targetted children-because they couldn't get guns to go after adults, wanting to hurt someone they go to schools after kids to maximize the damage.
the media also dropped the phrase mental illness, there is no such medical thing. its a catch phrase and used to describe anything the majority of people don't agree with but directs public hate toward a scapegoat, giving some solice in having a simple explanation for a tragety. the guy may or may not have had any problems (he had aspurgers syndrom, a neorologic thing affecting social understanding but the brain actually functions better in logic-basiccally a socially awkward nerd, but its not an illness), true illness would be something like scitzofrenia, but given that he was able to plan and execute such a vile act indicates he was not likely mentally ill with a real illness.
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Rifraf
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# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 10:43am - Edited by: Rifraf
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Very sad , I have young children ranging from 3 to 13. I feel as a species we need to stop over medicating those who dont fit the "normal" mental profile and find other ways to help them, for example I dont think you have to medicate a child that has trouble sitting still for long periods of time, instead teach and encourage the child in ways that work for him/her.
There are alarming coincidences between the rise in powerful psychotropic prescriptions and violent mental "snaps", and this is one of many reasons I like living in a small rural area.
I also agree that arming law abiding citizens is much better than disarming them and creating easy targets for the criminally insane, violent, or the mentally over medicated.
What is equally sad and upsetting to me is the media asking kindergarteners disturbing questions forcing them to recall the events, and the political arena using this sad event to push gun control and attack the second amendment.
We're creating a very scary , sad world. I hope these parents and children can find the strength to live happy lives in time.
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TheWildMan
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# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 11:34am
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kharkov, that T shirt is a big missleading and reflects a misconception. schools are not a place where religions are banned. schools are not permitted to endorse any particular faith, they cannot teach a religios doctrine (unless a private school affiliated wwith a church). students are not barred from wearing crosses or the star of david, they are not barred from bringing a bible to school to read on their own free time. the law only prevents the schools from endorsing and teaching a religion. if a student is told be school officials to remove their jewlery the parents can file suit against the school. shirts liuke the one in the picture come from the religious right (read religious extremests in the US) who want their faith taught in public schools and who misrepresent the intent of the law to push their own goal.
additionally, that reminds me of a preacher who spoke on CNN that we are encouraging a scociety of violence with movies and video games and that the bible and religion is the cure for disasters like this. however the bible and religious differences have caused more death and violence than any other force that ever existed, not just those of oposing faiths (read, middle east), but amongthose who have slightly different views of the same faith (protestants and catholics), and it does not stay as nation on nation, in Ireland the protestants v catholic violence has pushed fighting withing the country. the founding fathers of the US saw wars errupt on a regular basis between catholic and protestant, between christian and jew, the spanish reconquista (cristian v muslem) and inquisition (christion v everyone else by purifying the nation). the laws keeping religion from being taught in school (not banning the faith of students) is a hand me down of the founding fathers not wanting an official state endorsed religion, it was put in place to attempt to prevent wars and civil wars that caused genocide in their day.
the shirt is misleading and the slogan is based of religous people in this country wishing to impart their faith into schools, not really understanding the sheer violence that the law was created to prevent. since the laws worked so well these people and generations before them have not seen that kind of violence. as a comparison, think of the civil rights movement, now instead of racial conflict imagine it as the followers of a majority faith bruitalizing a minority faith and having legal protection and endorsement to do so.
sorry if this sounds as a rant, I read a lot (winter in an off grid cabin provides ample time to read with an oil lamp on my right and wood stove on the left, half my cabin is filled with books). i get bothered by simple explanations made without consideration of the deep history preceding it.
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Malamute
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 02:05am - Edited by: Malamute
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Wild, I agree with many of your thoughts.
Many recently (here and other places) have commented about "what the world is coming to" or some variation of that feeling. We've lived in a pretty long period of relative safety in this country and time period, but we need to remember that the world is a dangerous and often ugly place, and sometimes bad things happen. As bad as this event was, we should recall that 70 years ago, Nazis were making lampshades out of people. The people that did that were voted into office. Not making a current political statement, but a historical one, about life, people and history. As ugly as this was, it was far uglier when 6 million jews were murdered, and many other millions by the Russians, Chinese, and Cambodians. The only way these things happened, was the govts registered personal arms, then confiscated them, all in the name of public safety and good. To disarm the people invites similar things to happen. To deny that it could never ever happen again is to not be a very good observer of history or humans.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 11:09am
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Malamute...you are right about all the heinous acts of violence in past history, but what is so alarming these days is that our young are the ones displaying such violence. Not a history buff here,just my observation,am I correct?
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Rifraf
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 11:27am - Edited by: Rifraf
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but what is so alarming these days is that our young are the ones displaying such violence
The young are the ones raised on being medicated with 101 psychotropic prescriptions. I'm convinced these mind altering drugs are effecting the youth more than the past generations. If your child is not obedient and subservient in a classroom they want to drug them so they will sit still and shut up. How can this not have long term and damaging effects on a pupulous
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Malamute
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 11:34am - Edited by: Malamute
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Troll, I partly agree, there do seem to be more, and partly believe that we hear more about thses sorts of things. Did you happen to see the vid I linked that the Forensic Psychiatrist Park Deitz commented about the media saturation coverage of these sorts of events? He said that when they are covered intensly, that we can expect one or two more within a week. If it can be shown to reduce the incidence of these sorts of murder sprees, shouldnt we be talking about media restrictions? (rhetorical question, nobody thinks walking on the first amendment is the answer, but the media still isn't the slightest bit interested in self regulating or reducing their coverage, even if it would help) It isn't a one faceted issue or phenomenon. Nobody seems interested in other aspects of it. Nobody seems interested in restrictions on mentally ill people either. They have rights. The second amendment and law abiding gun owners rights are fair game though.
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DaJTCHA
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 12:28pm
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Imagine the walnuts you must have to stand up in front of an auditorium full of those that have lost so much and use 1/2 your "speech" as innuendo to further your twisted political agenda? Despicable and appalling!
BTW- The eyes tear near the ducts (they're located nearest the nose), so for the next "speech" could we have a little more realism and maybe include wiping in that area?
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hattie
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 05:49pm
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This is a little long to read, but well worth it. Lots to learn from this:
COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER !! Guess our national leaders didn't expect this. On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.
They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness.. The following is a portion of the transcript:
"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.
"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.
"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent
I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.
Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!
"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact.
What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws.
Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.
"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him.
To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone!
My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"
- Darrell Scott
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hattie
Member
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2012 04:05pm
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I sobbed out loud when I heard this poem. It is beautiful:
A Poem for Sandy Hook Elementary School
Twas' 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38
when 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven's gate.
Their smiles were contagious; their laughter filled the air.
They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there.
They were filled with such joy, they didn't know what to say.
They remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day.
"Where are we?" asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse,
"This is heaven," declared a small boy. "We're spending Christmas at God's house."
When what to their wondering eyes did appear,
but Jesus, their savior, and the children gathered near.
He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same.
Then He opened His arms and He called them by name.
And in that moment was joy that only heaven can bring;
those children all flew into the arms of their King.
And as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace,
one small girl turned and looked at Jesus' face.
And as if He could read all the questions she had
He gently whispered to her, "I'll take care of mom and dad."
Then He looked down on earth,the world far below,
He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woe.
Then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand,
"Let My power and presence re-enter this land!"
"May this country be delivered from the hands of fools"
"I'm taking back my nation. I'm taking back my schools!"
Then He and the children stood up without a sound.
"Come now my children. Let me show you around."
Excitement filled the space; some skipped and some ran;
all displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can.
And I heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight,
"In the midst of this darkness, I AM STILL THE LIGHT."
Written by Cameo Smith, Mt. Wolf, PA
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EvoQ
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2012 10:18pm - Edited by: EvoQ
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Children don't PLAY anymore, they sit in front of the TV watching Ugly crap programs that are violent/indecent......then when they get older kids sit in front of the video player engrossed in these Violent 1st person shooter type video games.
I see so many Adults throw their kids in front of the TV to "entertain them" so the Adults won't have to deal with them.
No more kids going outside, climbing trees, riding bikes, etc. they all Never want to go outside. When I was a young-un you had to hog tie me to a chair to get me to stay inside the house. Now it is just the opposite with these modern day children.
They even aren't kids anymore, but smaller adults, because they surely act like they are adults, they talk like adults, and want to surely act like adults do.
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neb
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2012 10:36pm
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Quoting: TheWildMan my comment was fueled by anger at the way the media was pushing political views into a disaster to take advantage of an emotionally charged situation, and this morning i am reading in the paper that several state legeslations are trying to push anti gun laws, edged on by the populace who were swayed to think that this will prevent future travesties.
Media makes everything a political agend. I agree with you on that.
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Malamute
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2012 11:11pm
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Good posts Hattie!
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TheWildMan
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 04:14pm
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rifraf, my sister is a quack (psycology field), a lot of the drugs that are mass perscribed have side affects that can cause kids to flip, its pushed to be profitable for drug manufacturers, they don't like to tell people about side effects.
Trollbridge, unfortunatly every society has had to function like a flock of chickens, cannot have cohesion without a target to attack or hate. the famous vikings were actually the youth that had nothing to do at home (surplus workforce, unemployted) so were given ships and told to go out and expand the home territory and get resources. those who died were rewarded (valhalla) and those who lived came home rich or settled elsewhere and were rich. the celts sent surplus youth to sack rome, and greece. in the colonial days europe sent surplus youth here. our surplus youth don't have anyplace to go and nothing productive to do, the population is bloated (and getting more so in front of the TV and computer... Look, i'm typing lol).
despite how violent we think today is, its a pacifistic future compared to what went on a couple generations ago.
malamute, the 2nd amendment was intended to keep civies armed as well as the army, the founding fathers had just overthrown the crowns control of the colonies, and wanted to keep the citizens well armed as a last ditch safegard against tyrany (so they trhemselves could be overthrown if there were no other options left to the people). and even into the 30s is was common for impromptu armies of oppressed and unhappy americans to rally (3000+ hill billies against coal mine owners) and force a redress of injustice when other means failed (this uprising forced the feds to intervine when the state and local gvernments sided with the rich mine owners). today its all about the nanny state taking care of the civies, wipe your nose tie our shoes, get along and play nice.
of course back in 1770s a skilled blacksmith could build the same kind of guns the army had. the foxfire books have instructions on how anyone can make a black powder rifle (anyone who can use a hamer and anvil forge anyway-a skill very few have these days).
though even today the most gun control states can't keep the people from building guns, everything from a breechloading shotgun to go poaching to submachine guns used in crime. outlaw guns and only outlaws will have them.
the founding fathers forsaw the need for the second amendment against tyrany. if 1940s germany had a population as well armed as the US then hitler would have been shot very early on. japan (and china today according to a friend of mine who teaches english over there) considered the prospects of invading the US, while they may have taken on the army the well armed civies would keep insurgency going that conquest would be imposible (as hirohito was told by an advisor: you cannot invade the US mainland, you will find a rifle behind every blade of grass). this is a greater national defense than the army.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 06:13pm
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Rifraf...agree...we are very quick to medicate children and their ADHD and all the other behavioral issues that are out there. I remember years ago sitting at the dinner table with our oldest kids-about 20 years ago-and for some reason it came up that a classmate had gotten in trouble that day because he wouldn't go down to the office to get his meds-Ritalin. This led to my kids listing off all the kids in their classes who also took their daily Ritalin. I was astonished! I had never even heard of hyperactive disorder...I will say that I think in general there are less kids running around school now taking these drugs then back then but now there are more specific diagnosis being made under different categories. Hate to say kids shouldn't be taking these meds because I'm sure it is necessary for some but if it were my kid-you bet I would be trying every other option under the sun-meds would be a last resort.
Malamute...agree, we do hear more with all the media out there...the media eats this stuff up...makes it way easier to put together a news show if there is news that captures americans attention...the news is even more twisted when there is nothing newsworthy to report.
The wildman...I'll take your word on it...you would kick my butt if we were ever competing on a history gameshow !!! It is very evident to me that you do spend a lot of time reading-was it you who has a cabin full of books?
A flock of chickens? I guess there is unfortunately a lot of truth to that
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TomChum
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2012 11:44am
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Wildman, for a guy who's isolating himself you sure pay attention.
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cabinbasics
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2012 08:33pm
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Thoughts of the sadness of those families has tainted our usual Christmas joy. I often think of them and just can't comprehend what it's like.
But I also have to reflect on the irony of the 3,500+ "choices" ending in healthcare facilities daily around this country - no news reporters, no police, no ambulances for them.
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