What do you use for protection while at your cabin, gun control issues

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Small Cabin Forum / Off Topic / What do you use for protection while at your cabin, gun control issues

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Anonymous	# Posted: 16 Dec 2012 09:17pm Reply I say easy access, you hear outlaw guns. Keep repeating the same tired rhetoric while more innocents die.

MtnDon Member	# Posted: 16 Dec 2012 09:37pm Reply Quoting: Anonymous I say easy access, you hear outlaw guns How would you change access? That is part of the discussion. And I agree with malamute about the media. Media in general has an bias, an agenda maybe, and they report inaccurately at times, bending facts to suit their view.

Borrego Member	# Posted: 16 Dec 2012 09:40pm Reply Quoting: Anonymous Once again all marching to the same tune. You should be ashamed and appalled. Easy access to weapons equals another tragedy. Admit it for Christ sakes. When is enough, enough ??? What's your solution, just out of curiousity?

CabinBuilder Admin	# Posted: 16 Dec 2012 10:11pm - Edited by: CabinBuilder Reply Gun ownership is one of the most controversial topics, one which will surely divide nice people on this forum. Those who have legal access to guns have the option to use them for protection at the cabin. We all get that. Assuming the gun option is covered, lets see what other options are available. Personal experiences, etc. We had few good ideas so far here.

MtnDon Member	# Posted: 16 Dec 2012 10:41pm - Edited by: MtnDon Reply For the sake of discussion it would be interesting, to me at least, to know the country one is in. I have lived in New Mexico USA since 1985. I moved here from Canada. Moving my guns from there to here was one of the easiest things I have done. I do suppose some will view that as a bad thing. Mass kill shootings have bothered me since Whitman killed 13 in the TX tower shooting rampage back in 1966 when I was still in university. I believe he was found to have a brain tumor.

Anonymous	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 01:18am Reply How about a personal option. If you have a person in your household that has severe mental problems don't have multible guns laying around.

reddly Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 04:19am Reply Here is my question as a totally uniformed person. But theres a lot of talk of tragedies involving legal ownership of firearms. I live in Canada so its a little different here. I grew up in a small town and hunting and fishing are a way of life for most of the community. It is also the site of one of Canadas most wanted for a triple murder. All this being said since I've moved to "the big city" and witnessed or been involved in more than a handful of gun violence. All job related. A few things that I would question: 1) How often are legally owned guns, used by the person that owns them to commit a crime? 2) what events took place in the process of obtaining the weapons legally ? (ie: what back ground checks are there?) 3) What about personal responsibility? Though I haven't looked up statistics I would believe that most violent crimes are done with illegaly obtained weapons. I'm not claiming all crimes are committed with illegal weapons, just the majority. Of the crimes that are committed with legal obtained weapons I would imagine most are not used by the legal owner of the weapon. Of course this is just an assumption but I feel that it is a fair one. I have a belief that if there is a reasonable check system to aquiring a fire arm than the next step is personal responsibility. Why is it hard to own a weapon and have it difficult to access for everyone in the house hold. I own a shotgun. the ammunition is locked in a seperate safe. The shotgun itself is locked away and is actually in seperate pieces. Not entirely dismantled I'm merely saying its not like I can go "oh man I'm mad and in this fit of anger I'm going to shoot something" My weapon is never loaded in the house. I'm just saying that there might be some reasonable things that people can do to still be able to legally own approved fire arms while going through a careful check system and required safety understanding of your weapons. Then taking measures in your own home to be safe. I've currently left a few rifles and shotguns locked away that when I'm out at the cabin will be coming with me. I'm not to concerned about protection from people as much as not wanting to run into a bear, moutain lion, or even a moose without being able to scare it off. I'm also a believer in owning a few large dogs, and carrying an air horn in the woods. Just some thoughts.

cabingal3 Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 07:14am Reply i personally think these video games the kids are glued to all the time...is what is making these young men do all this.I think each time lately in the shootings they were dressed as in these video games.

OwenChristensen Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 08:02am Reply Yes

Cooks Dock Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 09:59am - Edited by: Cooks Dock Reply We sort of got off track here. Thoughts??- forest/trees. Head/sand? And I'll be quick. First steps in dealing with a mental illness is to acknowledge it. My brother in law had some issues years ago, the first thing my father in law did was remove the firearms from the house. Responsible gun ownership.

wakeslayer Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 11:06am Reply Quoting: Cooks Dock Thoughts??- forest/trees. Head/sand? And I'll be quick. First steps in dealing with a mental illness is to acknowledge it. My brother in law had some issues years ago, the first thing my father in law did was remove the firearms from the house. Responsible gun ownership. Just from what we have read, available from the crazed media coverage, Mom owned the weapons used. Hard to say if they were locked away, and simply taken, or if they were accessible. And seriously, would all Anon's, regardless of which viewpoint you have, please register and use a screen name?

EvoQ Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 11:22am Reply As a Gun Owner this latest incident sickens me, makes me ill to no end. Senseless killing. IMHO of what I know now I hold the Mother and her total Lack of effort to prevent ANY Access to her TOO many "Guns for Protection" from her Deranged Son. I also want to Know about the Mother's Brother whom isa Police Captain, that Knew about the Son's Mental problems and of all the Guns, but had Not seen this boy in 6 Years ? People; Something is Wrong with this Picture here...it Does NOT add up at all ! and in time allot more Damaging Info will come out about this Family and their In-actions that Caused and Feed this Deranged Boy's Killing Spree.

silverwaterlady Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 12:01pm Reply I travel a lot and have been to the area where this happened many times. It's a upscale New England community. I am noticing that there seems to be a partial news blackout about many circumstances. Had this happened in a less affluent area we would have more information about many things. I hold the mother responsible for this happening. If certain news reports are accurate the murderer was on medication for schizophrenia and she had five firearms in her house. That is totally irresponsible.

cabingal3 Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 12:41pm Reply its really really hard to get help for the mentally ill.alot of times u as a parent dont know what u are dealing with in a teen.are they nuts,on drugs or just hormonal.if u have no experience with mental illness .at least not diagnoised.u honestly dont know what to do.u try everything humanly possible.my older boy is schizophrenic.i can not tell u the hell we went thru with him.we tried to get help when we noticed things about him as a teen.it was sooo hard.we went to counseling.they thought he was drinking.back then they did not want to give too early of a label as a diagnoisis on a kid.it was so hard.my heart so goes out to this poor family of the gunman.i have walked in her shoes with my own children. i agree she should have had the guns locked up somewhere.maybe she did and he got the key.her house is huge.maybe she was scared.maybe her guns were to protect her from her son if he went bonkers more than normal.maybe her and the son did some kind of thing in case someone broke in.it seems a nice town but i cant judge her.its horrible to have mental illness in yur family.it is worse to not know whats wrong.our son finally got on lithium at about 26 yrs old.we always always have to listen to him for signs of troubles of things not being well with him. once the pharmacy was out of his normal lithium pills.they shipped him pink pills.he mentioned it to me.he talked to the group home where he belonged to at the time.well he took it upon himself to not take them cause he was leery.soon i heard him being off.me and my daughter went over there to check on him.he was off his rocker. we had to go thru the correct proceedure and call the cops and they called the ambulance.it resulted in him being in the mental ward at the hospital for a month.if he gets off his medication-he could die cause he cant feed himself. i have had times in his adulthood where we went to pick him up from his life and he could not get undressed.he urinated on the floor.he looked at the windows like his mind was willing him to open .he put lit smokes out in his mouth. it is like u have this precious little child u raised with so much love.u see this person still and u love them...but they have problems .u never know what happened in that home.that mother was trying to homeschool him.i have had to do this with my own. i just am so sad for all.its very very tragic.

EvoQ Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 01:24pm Reply From what we do Know, this Mother was a Doomsday Prepper believing in the end of the world Economy type scenario. Listen I am Pro-Gun and Firm Believer of the 2nd and the Whole Constitution. The Women/Girls/Ladies that I know who felt the need to Arm or Gun-Up for Protection went out and Bought 1 handgun, another lady I know bought just a single shotgun for protection in her home. If a Women has More than 1 gun, it is NOT for Protection. Secondly, if you have Children in your home, it is Fully your responsibility to ensure that these Children could NEVER under ANY circumstance get to those weapons. A Gun safe with a combination that you only know is the only way to make sure that kids can't get to these guns. 50 year old women owning 5 or more guns with apparent access of these Guns to Children is a ticking time bomb. Throw in that the children have Mental Issues then that is a Disaster waiting to happen. That WHOLE Family is to blame, the Mother, the Husband that apparently left the Crazed Mother to totally deal with the Deranged Son, the Uncle whom is a Police Captain has Blood on his hands too. Other Family members that knew about the Guns also have blood on their hands too. IMHO there is no room for Guns and Mentally Ill people in the Same House, Never Ever should Any Gun ever make it's way onto that Property and Into that Home. You not only have responsibility to your own family members but also to your neighbors, and Society when you own a Gun and bring a Gun into a Home with other people, and Most importantly with Children in that house. Guns and Humans that are inquisitive do NOT Mix. a Gun is a TOOL....Period, and when it is used for anything otherwise then it is a Danger to Society. When you turn into a Gun Nut and use Guns for Pleasure then we all suffer. The people that suffer the most after events like this are Gun Owners that use their Guns properly to Hunt, to bring home Meat for their families, such as subsistence Hunters up in Alaska,etc. that Depend on this game Meat to survive and would go Hungry and possibly Die if they were not able to Hunt. When Society starts Demonizing Intrinsic Items, Cars, Knives, Guns we are in trouble. For People are Ultimately to Blame for this heinous act not any piece of Metal or plastic. No One wants to Blame the Poor Mother, or the Poor Father of the Shooter. But let me tell you I Do, I blame both of them and the other members of that Family that sat idly by and watched this unfold. Not one of them took action, and believe you me when the truth comes out, we will find out that there were Signs, An Astronomical Amount of Signs that this deranged Young Man was a Stone Cold Killer. So Yes I Blame the Mother, the Father, the Uncle, etc.... and also that Young Man too, IMHO if you can drive a car and Plan out a Killing like this, you are Not apart of Society but are a Monster that needs to be dealt with promptly and severely. And also the People that sat by Too Need to be held responsible too. The Uncle is a Police Captain, My God why did this Man Not do something about this? Oh its been said he hadn't seen the boy in 6 years. There's something wrong with that, you don't disown your family Unless there is a Problem going on. And if you are a member of the Police and you know of a problem you are at fault too. Police have a duty to society to serve and protect, well this guy didn't do his job at all. There needs to be a HUGE ... O P E N... Investigation into this incident, Period. I want to know all the facts, we as a society should know everything about this tragedy and no covering up, like happens all the time. All the killers, shooters are Dead so No Need to protect the evidence in case of a trial. I demand to know what the Heck Happened and more so WHY did all these people close to this family and members of this Family Let this happen. Sorry but this is beyond words when 20 children lay dead...this is totally unacceptable !

silverwaterlady Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 01:37pm Reply Many times in my life(all job related) I have seen things that did not look quite right to me and have reported such things to my employer. I have the number for Homeland Security posted on my dashboard and would not hesitate calling them if I had to. So many times in the history of our country disaster could have been averted if people would have gotten themselves involved instead of standing idly by and doing nothing.

cabingal3 Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 02:04pm Reply its very very tragic this is for sure dear ones.a very sad time in our history.

Anonymous	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 07:34pm Reply The Mother was pro gun, and one of those "responsible gun owners" that we keep hearing you talk about. Nobody needs an assault rifle meant to kill humans. How about limiting access to those??? Infringing on your rights ?? Intensify screening for multiple weapon owners. Infringing on your rights?? Now you can say " You want to ban weapons". Easy access to multiple weapons not required for basic home security is the problem. Because crazy people can get them.

MtnDon Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 09:13pm - Edited by: MtnDon Reply Quoting: Anonymous Intensify screening for multiple weapon owners. Quoting: Anonymous Easy access to multiple weapons not required for basic home security is the problem. Intensify how? And why? There are many people who own multiple firearms, knives, swords, chain saws, and so on, and the vast majority will never kill another person. I have different firearms for different purposes; three different rifle calibers for hunting small, medium and larger animals. Three different 22LR; one tricked out for target competition shooting and two others, a semi-auto and a bolt. Why? Because I like them and I like shooting holes in paper. I also have one of those terribly evil black rifles; setup with a target grade barrel for punching holes in paper with greater precision. Why? It is fun to shoot. I know some people don't "get" that. That's okay; I don't understand people who stand in cold streams fishing for hours on end using a large array of different lures or people who bungee jump. Then I have five shotguns; two for hunting and tthree as defensive weapons, kept in different locations.. Then there is the historical collection; a number of long guns from 17 different countries last time I counted. More than one example from many countries. And I.m not going to enumerate the handguns or black powder long guns. I'm not saying I'm typical; I know a couple people with larger collections than I and many with less than a handful. Neither myself or any of my friends consider ourselves survivalists, or doomdayers or dangerous people. Several of the friends with multiple firearms are prominent citizens, a few are local and state police, one is FBI. We just like firearms; we like going to the range and shooting holes in paper. A few hunt for everything from quail to elk and bear. It is our hobby. Quoting: Anonymous Nobody needs an assault rifle meant to kill humans. A gun is a gun. They can all be used to kill living things. I don't see any point in differentiating between styles. None of the arms sold to the general public have the option of fully automatic firing that is made available to military forces. Oh, every time I make a purchase through an FFL dealer I have to fill out the 4473 form. And every time it comes back with a delay. No instant purchase for me... as far as I can determine there is another person with the same name out there who has been in the sights of federal law enforcement for decades. The system that is in place works if information has made it into the system. The problem I see is how to determine if and when somebody should be disqualified from owning a firearm. Oh, one further thing... placing limits on the number of firearms a person could own enters another area; that of firearms registration. It has been shown that registration does nothing to eliminate crime. Canada tried long gun registration, implementing it in the early 90's IIRC. They found registration could never be shown to have prevented any crimes. Plus it cost many millions of dollars more than was first estimated. It was a financial drain with no proof of benefit. They repealed their registration law earlier this year.

Anonymous	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 09:40pm Reply Mtn don has all the right answers. But why doesn't an incident like this make you question your answers? Don't deflect by talking about knives, or chainsaws, swords. I said assault rifles, not chainsaws. You deflected. Assault rifles,repeat, assault rifles with bullets designed only for killing humans. Not hunting rifles, not swords, don't deflect, don. Assault rifles with ammunition used only to kill other people. Why would anyone want to have that??? Because they can fall into the wrong hands, and then we have tragedies. Surely after an incident like this, you can see the system is not working. It is so tragic, and even more so that nothing will change. Be happy with all your guns, yes it's your right. But the whole world is watching and wondering why you can't change. And a gun is not a gun, don. You know that. You know that a six shot revolver is not a glock, or an assault rifle. A gun is Not a gun.

Borrego Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 10:00pm Reply Anonymous, or whatever your name is, your knowledge of this subject is alarmingly sparse. I'll echo most of what Don said. I also own more than a few weapons, guns included. Being a martial artist, I have traveled to the Far East to buy weapons of combat. And I love the Old West, so I collect six guns and lever guns of that era. [By the way, a trained person could harm a lot of people with an old Winchester, just about as many as with an 'Assault Rifle", so where do you stop when you want to start collecting our guns?] And yes, I have military style rifles as well (WW1 to present). Why? One reason and one reason only: as Don said, I love shooting them. If you don't understand this, fine, you don't have to, just know that there are millions of guys like me out there and we are not the problem.... Stretch your head around the real options instead of pursuing the unreachable......

Borrego Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 10:07pm Reply Quoting: Anonymous And a gun is not a gun, don. You know that. You know that a six shot revolver is not a glock, or an assault rifle. A gun is Not a gun. We know that a six shot revolver with a speed loader is actually quicker than a semi auto. A civilian version assault rifle is not all that dangerous compared to a shotgun really.....do you even have any experience with any of these or are you just talking?

silverwaterlady Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 10:32pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady Reply Hi guys a lot of women out here like to target shoot too. I find the people that don't like guns are the people that don't have much or any experience with them. I have more than one FBI clearance. I am a law abiding citizen and it is my constitutional right to own guns I am wary of people that intimate that they want to take my rights away from me.

Anonymous	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 10:35pm Reply left Anonymous, this is Right Anonymous. I actually hunt with my AR-15 rifle. It is only a rifle, the labels are given by those who don't know what they are talking about.

MtnDon Member	# Posted: 17 Dec 2012 11:44pm Reply Here is a letter one of my gun toting friends has written and is sending to the local newspaper. I wish I had authored it.... What to Do About School Shootings The first recorded school murders in the U.S. took place in 1764 near Greencastle, PA. Four Lenape Indian warriors killed the schoolmaster and at least 9 children. School murders have occurred periodically for a very long time in the U.S. and in many other countries around the world. Motives are sometimes political, racial, or religious, but are most often personal issues harbored by a criminally insane perpetrator. How can we prevent these troubled people from committing these unbelievably heinous acts? The first response from many is that we must limit access to guns, for they are the most common tool used in these crimes. It is easy to say, and many want to believe, that simply removing guns from the hands of private citizens would solve the problem once and for all. Or would it? If we could wave a magic wand and make every firearm not in the possession of the authorities disappear instantly, would those obsessed with mass murder be stopped in their tracks? Or would they pursue different methods to the same end, such as bombs, like the ones Andrew Kehoe used to kill 38 in the Bath, Mi. school disaster, or knives, like a jilted teenage boy in China used in the summer of 2012 to kill nine people, or an automobile, like Pricilla Ford used to kill 6 and injure 26 in Reno, or arson, like Julio Gonzalez used to kill 87 in New York in 1990? Any number of other strategies could be utilized by someone bent on mass killing. Clearly, the possibilities are endless, and circumstances favorable to the creation of deadly scenarios are common. The take-away is that even a total removal of all privately held firearms would do little to eliminate opportunities for deranged persons to commit mass murder. On the other hand, such a removal would preclude any law-abiding citizen from using a firearm for self-defense, or the defense of others, as was done recently in Early, TX, where a citizen used his revolver to save the life of a police officer. This leaves disarmed citizens at the mercy of criminals, who by definition ignore gun laws just as they do any other law they find inconvenient. Based on the experience of jurisdictions where guns have been banned, it's certain that we would see a net increase in the number of victims, not a reduction. Since we know that schools are magnets for homicidal sociopaths and terrorists, we must recognize that our children must be safeguarded the way we guard everything else we value highly. We employ armed security at banks, malls, factories, even parking lots. This is the only option we have that can make a positive difference. We should seriously consider proposals like the 2006 legislation Rep. Frank Lasee introduced in Wisconsin to arm teachers. "To make our schools safe for our students to learn, all options should be on the table," he said. "Israel and Thailand have well-trained teachers carrying weapons and keeping their children safe from harm. It can work in Wisconsin." Whether it's armed teachers and administrators, or police officers assigned to school duty, it's time to install effective security measures at all our schools, including strict controls on access to the premises, that can't be defeated by simply breaking a window as was done at Sandy Hook, and most importantly, on-site personnel prepared to fight to defend our kids if need be. As long as our schools remain soft targets, they will continue to attract the deranged and those who wish to hurt us as deeply as possible. We must take measures to at least create a chance to stop the perps before they get started. Calling for help after the carnage begins is clearly not even remotely good enough!

MtnDon Member	# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 12:03am - Edited by: MtnDon Reply Quoting: Anonymous But why doesn't an incident like this make you question your answers? Don't deflect by talking about knives, or chainsaws, swords. I said assault rifles, not chainsaws. You deflected. Assault rifles,repeat, assault rifles with bullets designed only for killing humans. OK, I'll apologize for the "deflection". However, my so called assault rifles are functionally the same as any traditional styles, wooden stock semi automatic rifle. They look different though. The shape and form of the AR style rifle is very functional as well as being a practical and accurate to use form or shape. You could wave the magic wand mentioned in the letter harry wrote (above post) and very little would change in the real world. There would be another "Eugene Stoner" come along and invent the AR all over again. The AR is just the latest in an adaptation of a military firearm for civilian use. The bolt action rifle action was perfected by Mauser (Germany) way back before WWI. The first lever action rifles were produced for the military. I have three different ones of those too; 22LR, 32 Special and a 454Casull. Forgot about them before The AR does make a pretty good varmint shooter for those who are plagued by coyotes and feral hogs. I actually prefer revolvers to semi automatic handguns.

MtnDon Member	# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 12:05am Reply Quoting: silverwaterlady Hi guys a lot of women out here like to target shoot too. And I know some who shoot darn good, too. Better than many men, myself included.

Rob_O	# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 12:53am Reply Obesity kills more people than school shootings. Lets outlaw spoons!

Rob_O	# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 12:57am Reply Quoting: silverwaterlady Hi guys a lot of women out here like to target shoot too. I find the people that don't like guns are the people that don't have much or any experience with them. Quoting: MtnDon And I know some who shoot darn good, too. Better than many men, myself included. Few times a year we'll fire off some rounds at my property. Last time out my friends boss brought his wife and she was the best shot of the day.

MtnDon Member	# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 01:06am Reply Quoting: Rob_O Obesity kills more people than school shootings. That says more than you might think. It is my personal belief that one of the reasons we have a world such as we do in this country is that we don't eat properly, we don't eat real food like our parents did, or like we did when we were kids. I'm 66 so that does go back a few... But honestly I believe the food most people eat does a lot of harm. That and the modern day medical system with its Rx for whatever ails you... pop another pill, or two or more.... The combination of crap food and prescribed drugs can not do anything other than cause problems. ...talk about veering off topic, eh? But think about it. GIGO, as we used to say.

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