| . 1 . 2 . >> |
| Author |
Message |
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Feb 2025 09:56am - Edited by: paulz
Reply
Any roofers here? I got a letter stating my homeowners insurance will not be renewed on our city house. I’ve had two roofing companies look at it, both stating it’s common now as they dig up ways to get out of the insurance business in California. I hear they are flying drones around. I do need a new roof, 70 year old original. No leaks inside, just the leaves.
The first guy says they leave the original gravel, put a layer of thin foam over it, and then some kind of plastic(?) sheeting over that.
The second guy says they will tear the old tar and gravel off, put down thin plywood over the old fiberboard insulation underneath, and also plastic sheeting on top.
Neighbors with semi recent roof jobs have spent around 20k. I’m expecting bids back this weekend, expect the second guy will be much higher. I’m not in love with the place (much prefer the cabin), either one will likely outlast me.
Thoughts appreciated.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Feb 2025 10:26am
Reply
Appeal the ins co decision?, ie, it doesn't leak, so..... Or, how about if I waive the roof part of coverage?
Depending upon the cost of insurance maybe you'd be better off 'self insured'? Is the lot worth more than the house being rebuilt in a loss? Could you even afford to rebuild nowadays without a less than 'replacement cost' (high$) policy?
You do need liability insurance though, but it wouldn't surprise me if they say you cant have that without structure coverage 
|
|
DaveBell
Moderator
|
# Posted: 6 Feb 2025 11:28am
Reply
Pictures please.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Feb 2025 02:02pm
Reply
Good ideas g. I’ve considered ‘self insured’, I’ve had the place 25 years, no claims. But who knows what could happen, and if they cover it. The place is a dump, my ‘66 Corvette and Vincent bikes are worth more, at least to me.
Sorry no roof photos, we’re at the cabin. Just a single story low pitch. Here’s a maps photo.
|
|
DRP
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Feb 2025 10:30pm
Reply
TPO or EPDM are the membranes, TPO is cheaper, either is fine. Strip and underlayment, fix what you find, it has leaked in that time and there will be damage. Consider insulation. I'm working under one now that is TPO near the end of life, several punctures and leaks have been repaired but there will be hidden damage. When we get to that phase I'll strip and root out the rot before insulating... to R60 now! to avoid removing 3,000' of ceiling and the bill to replace that. I suspect that R number will be changed in the next code cycle.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 08:15am
Reply
Thanks DRP. I’m expecting detailed bids/reports back this weekend. And will be back there to take pics.
The house in this neighborhood, built in the ‘50s, like me have just this fiber insulation boarding, about 2” thick, over the rafters, about 6x8, all exposed from the inside. Over that is the tar and gravel. Most of that is ok to look at, but the outside eves are a mess. They usually replace just that part with plywood and have a dip down where that meets the inside 2” stuff.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 09:03am
Reply
Lay in some new styro insulation right on the old roof, then a membrane, then perlins and do metal roofing? Wouldn't be cheap either but maybe worth a look/bids.
Should have some of that breathing 'hot roof?' effect too.
|
|
DaveBell
Moderator
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 12:41pm - Edited by: DaveBell
Reply
Quoting: paulz I got a letter stating my homeowners insurance will not be renewed on our city house.
You didn't give a reason why they were not renewing. Did they say it was because of the roof? How can they tell that the roof needs replacing? Is it because of leaves on the roof? Blow the leaves off the roof. Any of your neighbors get a similar notice? Make a letter asking about it with your phone number and email and stuff all the mail boxes.
Sounds like maybe because of the fires, your insurance will be cancelled for any reason.
There was an article that State Farm cancelled a bunch of policies just before the fire. The risk dept. probably was watching rainfall amounts, if any before the Santa Ana winds event. Most prevalent in the fall.
How are you going to feel if you spend $20K on the roof and they cancel you anyway?
|
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 02:16pm
Reply
Ha, well it will help the resale value I guess. Both roofing companies said the same: some law says they can’t raise prices too muck so they come up with ways to cancel. When the roof is done they may say you have threatening trees or something.
It does need a roof, the eves are terrible, likely visible from a drone. You’ll see when I get back and take pics. I can afford it now, the guy that hit me’s insurance paid my hospital bills and more (the reason I was out for a while) but left me a crippled mess.
Anyway still at the wonderful cabin, where I’d much rather be. So much of my prior life is at the house it would take a long time to bail out.
|
|
ICC
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 04:49pm - Edited by: ICC
Reply
Unless I am missing something, I do not see a connection between needing a new roof and nonrenewable home insurance.
You are in CA and companies have been raising rates & not renewing for a few years now, up and down the state. I have friends and family members in CA who have received non-renewal notices. Some have sold and moved out of the state for that reason.
Meanwhile, in NM, much of the same is happening at a smaller scale than CA. Rates are increasing faster than the national average and cancellations are happening. My rate is 60% higher than it was 4 years ago. My brother's rate increased by another 24% in December and he lives next to town and is near a fire hydrant. My policy comes up in a few months and we'll see what happens. Friends one county and a few zip codes to the east have received non-renewal notices. The NM state FAIR insurance exchange only offers minimal coverage up to $350,000.
At present, I'm in Mexico, visiting family on my winter sojourn. I am half jokingly, half seriously looking at buying a home from a relative down here and selling the Rio Arriba property before nobody wants to buy it. I'd miss the mountains I grew up in but I like it down here too. I'm not too old to "learn new tricks". I could sell my airplane and buy a boat. I speak the language. I fit right in.
As far as your roof goes, low-pitch tar and gravel roofs always leak. At least they do here in NM. Maybe not huge leaks that result in water running down an interior wall, but smaller ones. The eave damage you mention is probably an indicator of hidden damage. Water leaks through the roof someplace and runs downhill, hidden until it emerges at a lower point. If it was mine and I was keeping it I'd insulate more than just a little while getting a new roof. I'd remove the old tar and gravel in order to find and repair the inevitable damage. Document that repair as it will increase the value if/when you sell. Or sell as is and get out.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 04:58pm
Reply
Hmmm, take the money and run....but where to put your stuff that is there? Rent storage somewhere? Buy storage that should cost way less than a residence?
Btw, you can store your Vincent in my unit 
|
|
DaveBell
Moderator
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 05:18pm
Reply
If you do replace the roof, use something fire proof like metal, concrete, terracotta.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 06:10pm
Reply
Quoting: ICC Unless I am missing something, I do not see a connection between needing a new roof and nonrenewable home insurance.
I called and they said the same, fix the roof and we’ll renew. As the roofer said though, they look for any reason.
|
|
ICC
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 06:26pm
Reply
Oh. That was not clear in the OP. Never mind.....
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 07:49pm
Reply
Sorry. I posted here more for ideas on roof repair than insurance, which of course is on everyone’s mind since the big LA fire.
Good subject too though. I probably know less about insurance than gravel! What does it generally cover, fire, theft, injury liability? Can you pick and choose?
On a cabin front, here I have National Woodland World like some of you. It’s cheap, few hundred a year. What are we getting with that?
|
|
ICC
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Feb 2025 09:10pm - Edited by: ICC
Reply
Quoting: paulz National Woodland World
I believe their insurance covers injury liability. No idea about copays, whatever. That is all
Quoting: paulz What does it generally cover, fire, theft, injury liability?
Check your own policy, but generally those are covered including contents. Everything will have specified monetary limits. Likely exclusions could be earth movement, floods, mold, pests, neglect, war, losses due to poor workmanship, bad repair, or defective maintenance, dangerous or aggressive dogs, and anything else the ins co may want to exclude. Wind damage limits may be noted in certain high wind areas. You may have to pay extra to cover certain high-value items or uses. I pay extra because of some of my shop machines, fuel for the airplane and some personal belongings. And you may be able to buy insurance with wildfire damages specifically excluded. I know people who did have wildfire coverage but they were screwed by the flooding that happened 2 weeks after the wildfire.
Quoting: paulz Can you pick and choose?
I don't know. I know certain things have to be added and paid extra, but I am not sure about dropping some of the usual things. Though I know people here who have home insurance that does cover theft and home fir that originates within the structure, but wildfire is excluded. Could vary by company. Always best to ask specific questions to any prospective com[pany, and then see it in writing in the policy.
|
|
Nobadays
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Feb 2025 09:27am - Edited by: Nobadays
Reply
Here in the pine woods of Northern Arizona insurance companies are doing the same thing. We got our renewal notice last October and our premium had more than doubled. We always save a little extra each year expecting increases but no way hade we expected our premium to go from $1,100 to $2,600! They told us to call for a re-quote as we were a valued customer. We called... they no longer insure homes in our area. (New insurance broker told us they had pulled out of our area 3 years ago. )
Long story short, our neighbor gave us the number for a local insurance broker and she wrote a policy from a very old, reputable company for just a$100 over our original, and with more coverage. The new company sent us a letter shortly after issuing the policy acknowledging we are in a forest fire prone area, wanting our permission in the event of a fire to send in a crew to clean combustibles away from our structures and to lay down a foam barrier over our home and structures. Of course we said yes! I guess there are a few companies left that do right by those of us living among the trees.
Side note... the company that insures our cabin is no longer accepting new customers in that area.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Feb 2025 11:14am
Reply
Still at the cabin.. Just turned on ABC news, long story on insurers canceling nationwide…
Got a quote back last night from one of the two roofing companies that came over, 36K! I expect the other will be close. The 20K my neighbor paid was 5-10 years ago.
I also got a phone message from my insurer asking to call back Monday. Maybe it was all a bad goof, lol.
Another neighbor gave me the number of another carrier, SafeCo maybe, that gave him insurance after he was cancelled for not much more dough.
Heading for the house today, more photos coming but it’s starting to sound like that’s just the excuse. I would like to fix the eves but on my own schedule..
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Feb 2025 11:15am
Reply
If you try to understand what is in your policy it may make you dizzy. Imo the best thing to do is call your agent (after all, they make money off your premium) and have them talk you through whatchagot and whatchdont.
|
|
Nobadays
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Feb 2025 03:26pm
Reply
Quoting: paulz another carrier, SafeCo maybe,
This is who we got our policy through here in AZ.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Feb 2025 10:21am - Edited by: paulz
Reply
Roofing quote 1
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Feb 2025 10:24am
Reply
Quote 2
IMG_4328.jpeg
| 
IMG_4329.jpeg
|  | |
|
|
DRP
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Feb 2025 03:25pm
Reply
This is one quick read on the differences. The last asphalt roof I was around the tar babies came running into our shop looking for extinguishers, took every extinguisher we could find to put the tar kettle out. I'm guessing it burped or there was a spill. We used to use the same companies for foundation waterproofing and skin burns down in the trench were pretty common. We had to remove 3 layers of that on an old service station roof, what a heavy mess. Whoops... not that I'm biased.
I saw the first quote mentions tear off and disposal of one layer. It looks like he is covered if there is more than one layer.
https://www.roofersguild.com/modified-bitumen-vs-tpo/
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Feb 2025 04:15pm
Reply
Quoting: DRP This is one quick read on the differences
Thanks DRP, was hoping you’d comment. A few things I don’t understand.
Quote 1
85 pound roofing sheet, that’s just the black roofing paper?
4 layers glass ply 4 with tar in between?
Tar and gravel, I get that!
6k option for cap sheet instead of gravel? Whats that?
Quote 2.
Just polystyrene over existing gravel, TPO over that?
|
|
DaveBell
Moderator
|
# Posted: 9 Feb 2025 05:24pm
Reply
You have a 70 year old roof. $38K sounds like a bunch of money for a roof. Why not toss the old technology and put R40 insulation in the attic joists and a colored metal roof? Tar sounds like a fire hazard.
|
|
paulz
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Feb 2025 05:51pm - Edited by: paulz
Reply
Sounds good, if possible. No attic joists. Here is the ceiling center from inside, shows how minimal the angle is. The panels are just that fiberboard insulation stuff, two inches thick. Right on top of that is the tar and gravel, no sheathing.
|
|
DRP
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Feb 2025 09:34pm
Reply
The other options would probably require a substantial slope increase. It does get done here some, an overframe of new rafters at a steeper pitch, purlins and metal... factor the whole cost.
The 85 lb is what we called 90 lb rol roofing back when, that is the weight per "square, 100 square feet.
This is the glass ply IV
https://www.gaf.com/en-us/roofing-materials/commercial-roofing-materials/asphaltic-me mbranes/gafglas-ply-4.
I'd inquire but I think a uv stable top sheet unballasted
I believe quote 2 was stripping to a bare deck, and then building up from there. More insulation would be better of course.
|
|
jsahara24
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Feb 2025 09:22am
Reply
It seems like roofing in CA is significantly different that in the east, so I don't think I can offer much advice..
But those are really expensive based on the prices in PA, I had my roof done in 2021 with shingles, around 20 square. It needed about 20 sheets of plywood replaced and I paid around 14k.
At our cabin we did it ourselves and used metal which is pretty cheap, under 3$/linear foot at 3 feet wide...
On my one rental property I have a flat roof, it has rubber roofing which is pretty expensive but nowhere near your quotes....Good luck
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Feb 2025 10:01am
Reply
I cant believe that heavy tar and gravel is sitting on just those fiberboard panels; ie, there has to be more structure up there???
|
|
ICC
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Feb 2025 11:59am - Edited by: ICC
Reply
It would appear that this might be an older double wide mobile home. Many of the pre-1975 ones had tar and gravel roofs. There are lots of those around the southwest, including CA. I have seen some do a roof-over; as was mentioned, new wood rafters and rafter tie framing on top of everything with metal panels over purlins as the finish roof. Some have added several inches of rigid sheet foam insulation on the old tar and gravel as a part of the process. The additional insulation would be a good thing, IMO.
|
|
| . 1 . 2 . >> |
