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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2023 04:52pm
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Something that someday might make the DIY cabin builder’s work a lot easier.
Innovative wireless light switch could cut house wiring costs in half | Folio
https://www.ualberta.ca/folio/2023/11/innovative-light-switch-could-cut-house-wiring- costs-in-half.html
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2023 07:07pm
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I will have to look into the bat-powered ones, I wouldnt mind changing bats in the cabin at all. (as is I have 5 pull chain fixtures and a power strip to avoid hard wiring switches)
Thinking too that if he has developed it for less than a buck it will sell for FAR more; will be interesting to see where this goes.
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ICC
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2023 08:11pm
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His system harvests energy from RF signals, whatever us around. What is there are no locally produced sources as in an off grid cabin: no local wifi etc, just whatever might be bouncing around the atmosphere from miles and miles away.
I will wait to see what happens. Much of this sort of news never matures into a viable project.
-izzy
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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2023 08:19pm
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14/2 romex is prety damn cheap and reliable.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2023 08:54pm
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Im thinkin that minimizing the runs of Romex in the new log cabin might be a good thing,
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ICC
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2023 10:03pm
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Semi-off-topic, but related.
Several years ago when the smart light bulbs and outlets became available I thought they would be great. They are, sometimes. I only use a small number that are for very specialized items. All my very much used things are back to doing it the old way.
This idea also sounds great, but I wonder what unthought of limitations or gotchas will show up.
All copper wire is nutso expensive now, so much so that all the Romex at any of the big box stores near me is now locked up. So I can understand the desire to reduce the amount of wiring. It may take some time before the technology will convince me though. OTOH, I have seen a number of situations where it would be very handy if we could retrofit a battery-less remote switch for a light. If this can be used with reliability and IF they build a three-way switch that could be retrofitted I would be more interested right now.
I might be interested to be able to use a remote switch added to an outlet, so we can switch one half of an outlet on-off. Add this to an existing system is what I mean.
-izzy
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spencerin
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2023 10:26pm - Edited by: spencerin
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Great idea, and it seems like it does have genuine, real-world viability/application. Like ICC pointed out, the question is, though, what are the technical limitations? Plus, there's always the hesitancy to adopt new things. "Whaddya mean there's no wiring!? Not in my house, ya ain't!"
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Brettny
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# Posted: 7 Dec 2023 08:29am
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Romex was very expensive..its since come down alot. 14/2 is $75 for a 250' roll now. I basicly wired my whole cabin with 500'. When I did my house 10yrs ago 12/2 was $75. I have since decided that everything being on a 20a circuit isnt really needed. With LED lights and low wattage appliances it just isnt needed.
I can definitely understand a remote switch needed for a retrofit. New construction not so much.
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 7 Dec 2023 10:49am
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In my fishing lodge rental space I have a bunch of lights with pull cords to turn them on and off, they are hard wired and do not have a wired switch.
I was hoping to find a setup where I could install lights that run off a switch on both sides of the unit. I haven't looked into whether that is available yet but its on my to do list for the spring. Hoping I can find something reasonably priced to meet my needs and eliminate needing to pull 20 pull cords to light the place up.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 7 Dec 2023 10:52am
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This was actually released by UofA here in Edmonton. Just down the road from my office.
I think its a huge deal. There are already products on the market that can go a year on a lithium coin cell. However, no builder will adopt them as a year is still not long enough (think of all the switches in your house, then how often you might have to change batteries). If this technology can be combined with the existing switches and extend the battery life in an urban environment to 3-5 years, then its a game changer.
The savings in labour alone would be huge. Not to mention the convenience of being able to move a switch anywhere.
Of course AI and home automation will make this obsolete in the future. There is already cheap tech that can track a person using smart hardware and predict where they will go, so turn the light on before they arrive. However, general adoption is a ways off I think (older generations find this spooky).
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Brettny
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# Posted: 7 Dec 2023 11:00am
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Quoting: travellerw The savings in labour alone would be huge. Not to mention the convenience of being able to move a switch anywhere.
It may save labor but if you spread that labor cost over 30yrs not so much.
On the other hand I have 20 switches in my house. I recently bought a watch battery for my car remote for $7. That would be $140 in batteries. Or $840 every for 30yrs.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 7 Dec 2023 11:10am
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I just saw today in our Menards flyer a Dual remote control pigtailed outlet unit for under $10, says it can work from 80' away. Im sure the remote is bat-powered.
These were never on my radar but Im thinkin now!
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2023 10:19pm
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On existing tech:
There are already spotlight bulbs available that have motion sensors right in the centre of them.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2023 12:02am
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Quoting: gcrank1 These were never on my radar but Im thinkin now!
Yep. Found a 5 pack on Amazon for less than $30 bucks.
Somewhere in my Emporium of " Don't Throw That Away". I believe I still have a couple of the original no battery remote outlets.
That's Right. The Clapper!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2023 10:26am
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Oh!, I totally forgot about The Clapper; did they really work?
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darz5150
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2023 10:43am - Edited by: darz5150
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My mom used to use one for the lamp by the bed.
I think someone made a light bulb with it built into it.
They still sell the Clapper on Amazon. Lol.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2023 09:34pm
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Looking on Amazon there are a Bunch, inc a side-plug that wont stick out so far And, more important to me, an Edison base screw into a light socket model that you screw a reg bulb into.
No hardwire switch or pull chain, etc required.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2023 07:38pm
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Kin, darz,
Do those motion sensors and clapper things have a parasitic draw? I would think likely so, but would be interesting to know for anyone on a limited (off-grid) power supply.
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ICC
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2023 08:03pm
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Quoting: darz5150 motion sensors and clapper things have a parasitic draw?
They would have to have a parasitic draw. The question would be, how much?
-izzy
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darz5150
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2023 09:07pm - Edited by: darz5150
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ICC is spot on.
Anything with a remote way to turn it on or off is
basically in a stand by mode that needs power to react to whatever command it's waiting for.
I have some under cabinet LEDs that are battery powered w/remote. I use rechargeable batts in them. And haven't really noticed them eating through batteries. Actually they do very well, and I never even thought about it, until this thread.
Some inverters go into a stand by mode waiting for a load to turn them on. I know some on here have them and could comment on the parasite draw.
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ICC
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2023 10:38pm - Edited by: ICC
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Parasitic drain for things with remote control ability of any kind vary from very noticable down to extremely low. Depends how well the circuit is designed and how much range is required..Many common household devices with remote controls draw 3 to 15 watts just sitting there waiting for a remote command. At the low end of the scale I have LED lights that draw under 1 watt while 'waiting'. If those are 120 VAC devices the fact that the inverter has to be on probably means the inverter power loss is greater than the device that is waiting.
There are inverters with excellent sleep modes. Virtually no power drain in sleep mode. The downside can be that some of them won't wake up without a larger draw than a small device uses. Plus some inverters have a delayed wakeup that can be inconvenient or problematic.
Example: my microwave didn't draw enough to wakeup my inverter if nothing else was using power. It was great not having any power loss from the inverter idling, but I had to turn on a small light to get the microwave awake to be able to set the digital controls and microwave something.
-izzy
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travellerw
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# Posted: 10 Dec 2023 11:26pm - Edited by: travellerw
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As izzy says parasitic draw is down to design!
However, anything drawing "watts" for parasitic draw would be considered absolute garbage (even worse than garbage). Seriously, with modern sleep modes even cheap devices like ESP8266 or ESP32 draw sub 1 milliamp is standard (0.03MA at 5V).. That is like 0.15W. Of course you can't stay in sleep as you would miss remote commands, but you can keep the radio alive and then use and interrupt to wake the CPU. That would probably draw somewhere around 0.30w with the radio on and CPU in sleep. Even this is considered CRAP as you can only run a circuit like that on a CR2032 (lithium coin cell) for 2.5 hours. (As an aside, this is why something like a garage door opener can operate on a single battery for like 3 years. When you push the button it wakes the CPU from deep sleep, wakes the radio, and sends the radio signal in like one one hundreth of a second. Then everything sleeps again. The battery "self loss" is actually more than the circuit draws over that 3 year period)
With a properly design circuit/CPU and no wireless, you can get that down to microamps. Seriously you can run a circuit off a CR2032 coin cell for 1,3 or even 5 years. The crazy part, if you wanted to run that same circuit off 120V AC, the power supply circuit would waste like 10 TIMES the power than the actual functional circuit would draw!
It would be a circuit like this that is being used in the original article!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2023 09:45am
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So, my takeaway from these p-draw comments is that these cheap remote controlled devises are not 'likely' to have efficient circuits and will be sucking an off grid bat-bank down 24-7 and most of that in stand-by hours of non use!
Possibly the actual in use power draw will pale compared to the stand-by use? So much for 'turning the lights off in a room when not there to save energy.
On grid a few might be ok, like the small 10" Edison base fan and led light for our bedroom at home. The light would get daily, but short, use; the fan only on hot summer nights. A lot of non-use/stand-by draw but on grid it wouldnt spike the bill for the convenience.
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ICC
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2023 12:59pm
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At my cabin, I use a Samlex PS inverter that has a remote on-off switch, which is a wired connection.
That remote switch does not shut everything down the same as pulling the breaker disconnect. There is still a very small (parasitic) drain. However, that drain is so little that it is not measurable overnight. It would be a factor over a period of weeks or months which is why I have a DC disconnect for it.
BUT, that remote switch does allow easy deactivation of the inverter at any time I am inside, and simply want to conserve what would be lost to the inverter idle consumption. I don't have an electric fridge or anything else that is AC and might turn on and off on its own. My AC use is for microwave, toaster, blender, kettle, TV and charging tool batteries.
There are a few DC LED lights that don't need the inverter AC power.
-izzy
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2023 06:18pm - Edited by: Atlincabin
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Kin, darz,
Do those motion sensors and clapper things have a parasitic draw? I would think likely so, but would be interesting to know for anyone on a limited (off-grid) power supply.
Apologies, this got dual-posted.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2023 05:19pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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There’s motion bulbs and spotlight bulbs on Amazon.com
https://www.amazon.com/sengled-motion-sensor-light-bulb/s?k=sengled+motion+sensor+lig ht+bulb
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