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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 11:23am
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I've got a 2000 Polaris Indy 600 Touring i bought last year that I need some mechanical help on. I've been posting in sled forums with not much response so i thought i'd check here. It all mainly revolves around the chaincase and getting the reverse to work.
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rpe
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 12:43pm
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Fellow Polaris sled owner here. Does that model have electronic reverse, or mechanical? What's the issue specifically?
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 01:47pm
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It's a mechanical reverse.
So when i bought the sled the previous owner said the reverse didn't work and it needed a new battery. Aside from those items, the sled drives just fine. Never made it out to the trails last year so we've only put a handful of miles on it playing around the property. I brought the sled home to give it a good once over (wrong time of year to be doing that i know).
The first time i pulled the chaincase cover off i found zero oil in the case. I then noticed chunks of the case cover gasket laying in the bottom of the cover. So i assumed the gasket dry rotted, and the oil leaked out at some point. I then noticed the most concerning issue that the chain was so loose, i could rotate the #25/27 gear by hand without moving the chain. Not even sure how the chain didn't fly off, etc. Anyways, i didn't dig much further (didn't really know what else to look for) so i put a new gasket on, filled it with oil and gave it another shot.
No luck. When i pulled the lever it would disengage from drive but wouldn't move in reverse. No grinding or anything, just wouldn't go anywhere, like i had shifted it into neutral.
Drained the oil and pulled the cover again. This time i pulled everything out of the case.
-One of the "ears" on the hub of gear #25 was broken off and laying in the back half of the case.
-The 2 bolts that hold part #30 (chain retention bracket) onto the back half of the case are snapped off flush with the back case and the part itself was laying at the bottom.
-3 teeth on gear #37 are kind of mashed up on one end, i suspect i can file the burr's down and it should be ok.
So i can buy the #25 gear new for $140, or occasionally they are on ebay used for around half that. The bigger question is can i run without that chain retention bracket?
I can't seem to figure out the purpose of that bracket assuming your chain is on properly and tight.
Any thoughts.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 02:06pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Fwiw, my experience with 'retention brackets' on a lot of different machinery is that they were put there to (duh) retain. Possibly as an afterthought when the assembly did not work as well as envisioned and threw chains, belts, etc. or as a forethought because those type of assemblies are, ummm, problematic.
That said, I have taken off a number of things like that with success.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 02:29pm
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Agree. And the fact that i've been bombing around the property with it and all that junk floating around in that oil-less case and it's been working fine leads me to believe that i would be fine without it.
Local boneyard wants $300 for a used complete case assembly.
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rpe
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 04:54pm - Edited by: rpe
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That gearbox has grenaded pretty well. Buying individual parts will likely cost a small fortune, and might still end up with you simply discovering the next broken/damaged item in that gearbox. Avoid the dealer, as they charge insane prices for that kinda stuff.
The problem I see is that the upper jackshaft and lower driveshafts likely have ball bearings (5) that are open to the inside of the gearcase, and receive lubrication from the oil flailing about inside there. That's what my old Indy looked like last time I had that box apart. When there is no lube, or even worse, when there is a cloud of metal dust in there from running dry with broken bits in the bottom, those bearings are likely severely life-limited at this point.
If it's not a mission-critical machine, just fill with oil, and see how long it lasts. If reliability is required, then I'd suggest just swapping out that box for a used one. Those boxes with functioning reverse are not that common. Many are abused/neglected, and end up like yours. You could likely find a box without reverse from a similar vintage machine for a fraction of the reversing box price, if that's of interest.
Here's a video that shows the internals quite nicely, and you can see the open ball bearings I mention above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCL83IvHSdQ
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 05:03pm
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Quoting: WILL1E Local boneyard wants $300 for a used complete case assembly
Buy this one if you want reverse. To much damage in that one to mess with it for $300. But at the end of the day how much is the sled worth?
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BRADISH
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 05:03pm
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I've got two 550 Fans around that vintage with the same looking case configuration.
Disclaimer: I am no motorhead.
I would however wonder if the snapping on that chain retention bracket (however that may have come about) may be the cause of some of your additional damage to the gears.
Have you actuated the reverse lever with the case open? (I can't remember if you can do this or if everything shift out of place.) Watching it actuate may give you some further clues as it whether or not you can safely run without that retainer. As I vaguely recall, actuating the reverse lever slides a gear in or out of place, functionally allowing the machine to reverse. Without the retainer in place it may be holding you out from successfully reversing. It's been awhile since I've looked at them, I can't quite remember.
Sorry if I am way off on this, I am but a simple man.
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rpe
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 05:30pm
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To get a basic idea of how it works, that video I posted covers it well. Gear 37 is splined to the output shaft, and slides inboard to engage dogs on gear 35 when operating in fwd mode. When shifting to reverse, gear 37 is moved outboard, to disengage the dogs from gear 35, which now spins loose on the shaft. It also engages with gear 25. Remember, gear 37 is splined to the output shaft, so it determines the direction of track (and sled!) movement. In reverse, engine power is passed from gear 8 to the chain, then to gears 28 and 25 (which rotate as one), then to gear 37, and out to the output shaft. The gearset 28/25 inserted into the geartrain acts as an idler to reverse the direction of rotation. When in fwd direction, 28/25 are just going along for the ride, but serving no purpose. You should be able to leave them out completely, along with shaft 30 and associated hardware and run without reverse. If you do switch to reverse in that case, you'll just go into a 'neutral' position.
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BRADISH
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 05:36pm
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Yeah. What RPE said 
Thanks for saying what I couldn't.
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rpe
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 06:34pm - Edited by: rpe
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BRADISH - no worries! I just had one of those apart recently, so that helped my feeble memory to recall the basics!
These are a couple pictures from last weekend. The white machine is a 488cc fan-cooled Polaris SuperSport, which has the reversing gearbox like WILLIE shows above. Although the sled needed lots of work when we got it, fortunately, the reversing gearbox was in nice shape.
Second pic is of the 14x24 shed build I documented here a few months back.
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NorthRick
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 06:58pm - Edited by: NorthRick
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Quoting: Brettny Buy this one if you want reverse. To much damage in that one to mess with it for $300. But at the end of the day how much is the sled worth?
Probably a lot more than 2 years ago. I don't know about the lower 48 market, but used sled prices in Alaska have become ridiculous! If it is otherwise sound, and meets the mission profile, I'd spend $300 on it.
As for eliminating reverse, I used to have an 01 RMK 800 without reverse. Not doing that again.
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rpe
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2022 07:10pm
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Quoting: NorthRick Probably a lot more than 2 years ago. I don't know about the lower 48 market, but used sled prices in Alaska have become ridiculous! If it is otherwise sound, and meets the mission profile, I'd spend $300 on it.
If WILLIE is happy without reverse, and/or tight for cash, a non-reversing box could be substituted. They are very common, and far cheaper.
Quoting: NorthRick As for eliminating reverse, I used to have an 01 RMK 800 without reverse. Not doing that again.
We have only fan-cooled 340cc and 488cc machines. I can't imagine wrestling a big beast like that!
Even the little 340's can get some work done too. We haul firewood, building supplies, or in this case one third of a new sectional!
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2022 07:52am
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Thanks for all the replies fellas!
BRADISH you cannot utilize the shift linkage when the case is apart because the linkage is all on the removable cover.
I think i'm just going to buy a replacement #25 gear (hopefully used), file the burred edges of that other gear and leave the retention bracket out. Fill'er up with oil and see if she works. If not, i'll just ride it w/o reverse until she completely self destructs.
I think i paid $800 for it. I've already put $150 in it for the new gasket, quart of chaincase oil and 2 replacement "idler" wheels on the track that were dry rotted and one was missing. It's a very high mileage machine but it's something for bombing around the property and maybe short rides on the trails. The trails by our land are multi-use, so you can run sleds and atv's on them in winter. I was just trying to get the reverse working to save my back when pulling it off of the trailer or pulling it in/out of the shed.
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rpe
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2022 08:24am
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For the use you're looking for, I think your proposed fix is a good one. Give that housing a good cleaning, and use some solvent to gently flush out those ball bearings I mentioned. Take it easy though, and avoid high pressure compressed air, as you may blow the seal out of the other side of the bearing. I think some models (not sure on yours) rely on that seal to keep the snow and water in the tunnel out of the gearbox.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2022 09:18am
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I think when i took the case apart the first time and tightened up the chain, replaced the gasket and refilled then ran it for a bit helped clean alot of the fine stuff out already. I noticed when i sucked the oil out to pull it apart the second time there was alot of flakes in the oil.
I'll be sure to get some cleaner and clean it out even more before i put it all back together.
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2022 10:31am
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Hey Will looks like your figuring it out. rpe we have 3, 440 fan cooled trail indys. I prefer to call their color mauve not pink. Or else I may have to say I write a pink snogo. I prefer my mauve marauder. Also have a 2000 polaris wide track. Arctic Cat 440 liquid cooled long track with reverse for my beautiful wife. 120cc Arctic Cat youth. An Arctic Cat kitty cat for granddaughter, her folks don't want her to start riding until she's 2 though. And a couple spares too. This papa's ready to ride n take my family out
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2022 10:36am
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Maybe use a 'come-a-long' to pull it backwards to save yer back?
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1tentman
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2022 03:19pm
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Will when you put the cover back on with new oil did you tighten the chain before you took it back out for a ride. If you didn't that is why reverse is not working, the chain is slipping past gear 27 and not turning the reverse gear. The bracket that is broke is basically a wear plate and it helps keep the chain engaged to gear 27. If the chain gets loose it will rub against this plate instead of the housing. I would try to reinstall that bracket if at all possible. I agree that your best bet is to clean all the parts and check the bearings, if they are a little ruff I would go ahead and use them. The torrington bearings aka needle bearings in gear35 25 & 27 will withstand a lot of junk and still work good. I wouldn't even replace gear 25 grind down the ruff edges where tab is broke off and reinstall it. The one good tab on it will engage with the 2 tabs on the other gear, once installed they never disengage. The only time there is any torque on these 2 gears is when its in reverse and you will not be putting much pressure on them when backing up. When putting it back together make sure the 2 thrust washers are behind gear 27 and on the cover side of gear 25, the washers are what keeps these gears spaced correctly. If the one on cover side is left out when shifting into reverse it will let gear 25 move forward and not allow gear 37 to engage properly. I would put it back together as cheap as possible because you don't really know much about the machine, if it explodes after a little use you will not be out much. When you install cover make sure you get the shifting fork installed in the groove on the collar of gear 37. You seem to have come up with some really good jobs lately , how is the ford tractor coming along?
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2022 07:55am
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1tentman i did tighten the chain after the first time i took the case apart. I'm still not certain what was preventing the fork from shifting that gear all the way over. It obviously moved it enough to be in "neutral" but not enough to engage with gear 25. I originally was thinking after the second tear down that it was that chain retention bracket, but that was in the back half of the case.
I'll post an update about the tractor in that thread.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2022 11:35am
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Dont assume the way it was put together when you took the cover off is the way it should be.
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