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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2015 20:39
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As many of you know, I've been banging my head against the wall repeatedly over septic. My use is VERY light, just below the soil is rock, water is precious, and I want to be both environmentally friendly, legal, and sensible about this. Compost toilets are permitted, no problem. I planned to have a raised bed garden and wanted to reuse what little greywater I'll generate toward watering it. That seemed to be a problem.
They must have clarified the codes because it doesn't seem to be anymore. They now clearly state that you can reuse some or all of your greywater and you CAN apply for a permit through the DEQ if you're not going to divert greywater to a septic system. Hallelujah!
Moreover, you can even use kitchen sink greywater if it passes through primary treatment. Mine will. I had been planning to use Envirolet's Biolan greywater treatment unit, which has been approved for septic in Ontario, Canada, and in some European countries.
And you can now use greywater year-round if it goes to a greenhouse. OK. Those big raised beds I was planning to have near my carport will now be enclosed. Even better. Now I'll be able to grow winter vegetables longer into the season.
Here's the Biolan Greywater Light, for anyone interested. It's the smallest of the units, treating up to 80 gallons per day. It's for summer or indoor use, so I'll simply have it inside with the outlet pipe connected to my raised beds, in which there will always be soil and a layer of rocks at the bottom. There won't be many months during which they're devoid of seeds or plants and the Biolan will keep the soil moist and rich. 
http://www.envirolet.com/greywaterlight.html
They state greywater permit process is inexpensive and straightforward enough since my output and use are so very basic.
I am SO GLAD to see the addition of the law and reference to applying for the waiver to the septic requirement. Fingers crossed!
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OutdoorFanatic
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2015 21:04 - Edited by: OutdoorFanatic
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I've never seen much sense in pooping in water.
First off, you poop in water and it goes 100 miles to a place where they try to take the poop out.
They get most of it but cant get the pharmaceuticals, micro beads and cleaning agents out.
Then they dump it back into the earth and call it good.
City people have no choice but they do nothing but consume and poop and send out bills anyway.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2015 21:26
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LOL, right, OutdoorFanatic?
Well, I just had a look at the actual greywater permit application and this gets even better. I won't have to apply for a waiver or permit to not install a septic tank and such. Check out just how they define an onsite wastewater system which you're supposed to have for any leftover greywater you can't use:
"Onsite wastewater treatment system" means any existing or proposed subsurface onsite wastewater treatment and dispersal system including but not limited to a standard subsurface, alternative, experimental, or nonwater-carried sewage system. It does not include systems that are designed to treat and dispose of industrial waste as defined in OAR chapter 340, division 045.
In other words, if I have guests, for instance, and am using more water than usual in the short-term, all I need to do is have a diverter valve/pipe that I can switch over to so that the excess greywater goes through some plants and crushed rock in the ground before encountering groundwater. Yay!
So, I get there, do the test pits and site evaluation that's required of everyone (and give the On-Site Dept. their check for $1,000, sigh) to apply for the building permit. Then, I tell them that the state allows me to use a composting toilet/greywater system, send the state the application with all of the info/$95, and I build my cabin. I'm done, everyone's happy.
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creeky
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2015 22:05
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Julie2, that envirolet made me laugh. That's exactly (sort of) what I have for grey water filtering.
My grey water comes out of the drain into a box filled with straw. the straw strains the water. The water goes to a drain. The drain runs the filtered water out to bushes.
Never had a smell or a problem. I replace the straw once a year.
The envirolet is a large box filled with peat. You can send the water where you like.
The key difference. Other than their's looks much nicer. Mine cost $5 for the straw. And the plastic box was free.
Their's is $1,500. Boy, you could make one pretty easy for that kind of money.
I will add, I have the envirolet toilet. Now in service for 4 years! It was over 3k new. No, I bought mine 3rd hand from a guy who bought it at a trade show, sold it to some organic gardener types who sold it to me. I paid 1k. Found it on kijiji.
I finally had to empty it this year. But that's another story.
But like what your facing, it was an approved septic system. So no grief from inspectors. And that's worth something right there.
Good luck with your grey water.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2015 22:17
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LOL, creeky, I know what you mean. My first thought was, um, couldn't I just buy peat moss at the garden center and have the plumber route the pipes into and out of a container? But these go on sale at 25 percent off fairly frequently and that grand will save me several grand so it's worth it.
I'm happily surprised that the state will let me reuse the kitchen sink greywater since it will flow through this. The kitchen sink will be my biggest greywater source between food prep and dishwashing. The state only requires primary treatment of kitchen greywater, not shower or bathroom sink.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 08:37
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Good luck with the approval. I though you had already relocated to Oregon and were living onsite in an RV. After snooping around the Oregon OSSD regulations this morning, my comments are still that you need a one on one conversation with your local people on what you propose. If your are permitting what you say is a composting toilet and the Oregon approved graywater system by envirolet that you plan on using total for above ground disposal on your garden site, then it is possible you may not be required to pay the full "$ 1000" fee for an on site assessment. Those assessment, with test pits are for "subsurface" disposal of your wastewater and it is possible your permit fee could be less as it appears you will not be disposing any of your water "subsurface". It is great to see that people in your area of usage have options. It appears from the rules that these are called alternate systems. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 11:02 - Edited by: Don_P
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The greenhouse and greywater is a little different. It is probably fine for private use, I think you would run afoul of FDA FSMA rules taking produce from it to a farmer's market, etc ... public consumption. I doubt that is an issue, just putting it out there informationally if this is in the back of your mind. The latest changes are becoming quite strict on irrigation water quality and monitoring.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 12:18
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One problem that has occurred with some greywater systems is that the final drain piping will eventually clog from particulates if it doesn't pass through a settling tank or filter of some sort. Filters can be a problem because they clog up. But this one you show looks easy to maintain. I like the idea of filtering through organic matter rather than some cloth or screen.
The cost is starting to add up- $1500 for the greywater box, $3000 for the composting toilet. Fast approaching the cost of a standard septic. But with a standard septic you need a larger water flow to get the solids to the settling tank, and I think you said you are not going to drill a well, and use minimal water, if I remember.
Looks like all your intrepid research is paying off.
Not surprised that they now accept greywater systems, as that is considered the 'green' thing to do these days. I am a bit surprised they accept the composting toilet, since health departments have been so reluctant in the past to accept anything for toilet waste but full septics. Congratulations.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 18:17
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Littlecooner
My plans were derailed by an unexpected medical complication (actually, medical malpractice) that landed me in the hospital all last summer, grrr. So, it's on for 2016.
There's no way around the onsite fee. Maybe they'd reduce it a bit but I doubt it. You have to do the site evaluation and test pits no matter what you're planning, even an alternative system. I even called the head of the Onsite division at DEQ in Salem to verify this. To get a building permit, you have to go through the process. I think a lot of it has to do with checking for wetlands and other soil/land properties.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 18:29
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Don_P
I'm not sure and haven't looked into it because, yeah, I'm just growing veggies and herbs for my own use. But the regs are quite specific that the greywater can't be used on root vegetables and it can't come into contact with the edible portions of plants. The pipe/hose must be buried at least 3 inches below the surface, covered by dirt or mulch. Maybe that covers any sort of food safety requirements if people do sell or share produce? I don't know.
There are 3 categories of greywater permits with different criteria, requirements, and permitted uses. I'm applying for Category 1, which is less than 300 gallons per day, no or primary (non-chemical) treatment, with use limited to landscape and plant irrigation and, I believe, some sort of water feature/manmade pond use.
The other 2 categories are geared more toward businesses and involve treatment and large quantities of water. Greywater can then be used for things like car and structure washing and such. Perhaps with more treatment, agricultural businesses could reuse sanitized greywater for commercial crops.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 19:13
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Quoting: bldginsp The cost is starting to add up- $1500 for the greywater box, $3000 for the composting toilet. Fast approaching the cost of a standard septic. But with a standard septic you need a larger water flow to get the solids to the settling tank, and I think you said you are not going to drill a well, and use minimal water, if I remember.
The chances of the land testing for a standard septic are rather low. The mountain is largely rock. That's one of the reasons I've been hell-bent on finding a good solution -- one that doesn't take up a lot of my land and is environmentally friendly.
When I was checking out the excavation company I'm going to hire to do my foundation and such, I was able to view the permits they had procured for the work they did for folks on the mountain. Every septic system was cap and fill/sand filter, by order of the Onsite Dept. Ouch. Of course, the homes were at least 5 times the size of what I'm building so there's that.
With the drought and water at a premium on the West Coast, I want to reuse my greywater, too. It just seems wasteful to me for water that could be reused to sit in an underground tank. This is such a win-win. I'll wait until the Biolan goes on sale, as it always does.
I haven't decided on the Eloo yet at $2,000 or if I should go with something like the C-Head that Steve posted. I'm not being overly girly in worrying about a bucket model, true composter, hahahaha. I have Crohn's Disease and that really is a factor in my composting toilet decision. I don't want to be pennywise and pound foolish. Other than something like the C-Head, the ELoo is the most cost-effective, waterless, no-power-required option I've found.
My plan is to USE that bedeviling bedrock to my advantage. Excavate down to it, use that solid bedrock as my footers and build a crawlspace foundation by attaching the ICFs/rebar/concrete to the bedrock via the method I found online. I can have the ELoo and greywater system, pillow water tank and plumbing installed into the crawlspace at that time so when the builder's crew comes in to do their thing, the foundation and plumbing are already inspected, up goes the cabin shell, the bathroom install, and the greenhouse.
That's the plan. We'll see what happens in actuality, lol.  If you see some glaring deficiencies in The Plan, please don't hesitate to tell this hard-headed Yankee that it probably won't fly. At least I know I can do my greywater/compost thing. That's a big "thing."
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 19:21
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Sounds like an appropriate plan for the circumstances. What's your water supply?
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 19:33
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Rain/snow collection and delivery for now.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 19:43
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Actually, there is one thing I've been wondering. There's a 30-foot separation requirement between a septic system and well/cistern. With the Eloo and Biolan being a closed system, as long as I have that diversion pipe from the Biolan draining through crushed rock 30 feet away from my pillow tank, would that likely be OK?
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 20:09
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my greywater at my southern camp goes threw 2 "PVC and goes to a pile of logs. Next to the log pile...if a lot of camp use it stays damp. That's where we did the fish bait to use in the pond.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 20:40
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That's a good question Julie. Where I am there must be a 100 ft separation from well to septic tank or drain field, but the pipes can pass closer if they are non-permeable, that is, plastic and not clay. Having both your water storage and septic containers together under the house might not fly. Better ask ASAP.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 21:46
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bldginsp
Thanks. It's not a huge deal. I'd prefer to have the pillow tank and pipes to my faucets in the crawlspace to keep everything protected and from freezing but if I have to bury a water tank and pipes away from the cabin, then I'll just have to do that.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2015 21:49
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Quoting: turkeyhunter my greywater at my southern camp goes threw 2 "PVC and goes to a pile of logs. Next to the log pile...if a lot of camp use it stays damp.
That's interesting, turkeyhunter. Why logs?
LOL, I'm so Tex-ified that a pile of logs makes me think, "OMG, rattlesnake house!"
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creeky
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2015 19:36 - Edited by: creeky
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Julie2. Look up "muldering toilet." there are a bunch of them now in premolded format. Or get someone to build you one.
And build a good sized one. These e-lets etc are tiny. And dumb for full time off grid. Take it from me. A guy who has had an envirolet in operation for 4 years now. Don't get me wrong. It works. But if your area will let you build a muldering toilet ...
Remember, the expensive trendy named toilets are, basically, fancy small muldering toilets.
Build it yourself and save! Plus, for your convenience
* No separation of #1 or #2. Terrible idea. Only good for those who have never heard of bokashi.
* Easy "material management" at the end of the composting cycle.
* lifetime of use
I like your careful control of waste water. But I would think a bit bigger when you look at the toilet situation. My next toilet I will build myself or buy one of the bigger premold setups.
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2015 21:33
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Julie2Oregon
I appreciate all this info Julie. As I ponder what to do at my new place, this looks like something that will work for me. I plan to ask the County about it. My cabins are only used for recreation, but it's nice to learn about a good option like this. Thanks for all the info!!!
Salty Craig
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2015 02:44
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creeky
I will Google! Thank you! Yeah, part of the code that was clarified was language to reiterate that the owner can build his/her own compost toilet so that wouldn't be a problem.
One of my concerns with compost toilets is bug life -- and the toilet breeding it. Common problem, apparently. The ELoo's design prevents that so I'd need something that does so similarly.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2015 02:47
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Salty Craig
Glad you found something helpful! There are some interesting products and ideas out there. I hope even more are developed.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2015 07:45
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon That's interesting, turkeyhunter. Why logs? LOL, I'm so Tex-ified that a pile of logs makes me think, "OMG, rattlesnake house!"
it was a small pile of logs where I cleared trees to build cabin. And the pipe going into was going to be temporary ....it's only been 4 years... ,,no smell....and the logs have rotted pretty good,
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Rickant
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2018 06:24
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Julie2Oregon did you end up using the biolan product?
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Gary O
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2018 08:30
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Quoting: Rickant Julie2Oregon did you end up using the biolan product?
J2O has been off line for some time now (lives near us)
No longer at that property
sorry, Rick
FYI
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