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MtnDon
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 17:29
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Some of us live in areas where wildfires are a great annual threat, some years worse than others. I have some assorted links to sites of interest.
Some like this first one illustrates just how wind driven embers from a wildfire initiate structure fires. In this video the embers are small to middling size. A raging wildfire can carry "embers" larger than your fist with ease. In the video we see a purpose built test building subjected to man made embers blown by a 10 - 20 mph breeze. A raging wildfire can readily generate winds in excess of that.
Another link, this time a[url=chrome-extension://gbkeegbaiigmenfmjfclcdgdpimamgkj/views/app.html] Powerpoint presentation[/url], named "Be Ember Aware".
For up to date information about wildfires anywhere in the USA here's a link to Inciweb. In the upper right corner you can select by incident name and/or state. There are Google Earth KML files available that will let you see fire perimeters at various points in time. Various maps and info about the progress of each fire.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 17:52
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This would be incomplete without info on how to be "firewise".
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 18:14
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To many of us it sounds very threatening ,but I guess its part of your risk. We all have something .
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Julie2Oregon
Member
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 18:54
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Great info, MtnDon! Thank you!
Do you have any advice on fire insurance? Is there a national fire insurance pool or resource for folks in these parts, like there's national flood insurance? I'd imagine fire insurance can be tough and expensive to get, especially in remote areas!
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 19:53
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Insurance companies will most likely not offer insurance if there are any trees within 30 feet of the structure. Features such as cement fiber siding or stucco may be required in some fire risky areas. That extends to fascia and soffits as well. (Some locations in CA require special soffits that have self closing, heat activated, venting. Class A roof material. There are some windows that are designed to be better performers in wild fire prone areas (tempered glass and metal insets in the vinyl frames.)
With the crazy bad wildfire seasons we've had here in the west recently I will not be surprised to see more and more fire resistant requirements coming from the building permit departments.
One other thing to watch when designing / building... Everyone with a cabin built on piers and without fire resistant skirting is asking for trouble in the event of nearby wildfires. Big embers or firebrands can blow in and be an ignition source. That was the main reason we added metal skirting to our cabin. I also installed metal underneath the cantilevered overhang. There's no bare, unprotected wood anywhere except for the porch.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 20:05
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon Is there a national fire insurance pool or resource for folks in these parts, like there's national flood insurance? I'd imagine fire insurance can be tough and expensive to get, especially in remote areas!
No I don't know if there are 'pools'.
Some folks elect to be self insured because of costs of insurance. Polite way of saying 'no insurance'.
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 22:46
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A few years ago I watched a documentary about the fire fighters working to put out a massive southern California wildfire. The fire chief was asked how they determine which houses to fight to save and which to let burn and he said "If we pull into the driveway and see a wood shingle roof, we turn around and leave. It's too hard to save."
I also recall seeing an image of a southern California hillside from another fire season. A road wove its way back and forth across the hillside in an "S" pattern, and all the way up the hill there were dozens of burned out houses on each side of the road with only the concrete basements left. In the center of all those burnt out homes was one house standing untouched. The news crew went up there and knocked on the door and found the homeowner still there. They asked him how his house had survived the fire storm when all his neighbors houses had been destroyed.
He said, "I built my house with a metal roof and stucco walls. All my neighbors used wood."
While insurance, fire extinguishers, escape routes and emergency water supplies are all great to have (and you should have them) the first question to ask yourself about how to survive a wild fire is "What should I build my cabin out of?"
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2015 14:06
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In the center of all those burnt out homes was one house standing untouched.
Rockies, I remember that pic. Along a ridgeline in Cali. One of those canyon fires, Santa Anna winds. I should have saved a copy. There wasn't anything flammable on the house or in yard. I thought he should get a break on his insurance.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2015 14:21 - Edited by: DaveBell
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Not sure this is it.
1993 Laguna Hills Fire
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/fire-resistant-details.aspx
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2015 18:54
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I just came back from my cabin, my state on the east side is on fire (Washington) and I was diverted around Chelan for an 8 hour trip tot he cabin. I fire started in the lower draw near my cabin, my cabin was still a good 8 miles away but at night, run to the county road, I could see the glowing hillsides. Only wind direction saved the place. It was smoky most of the time. Town below (18 mile drive) was evacuated, embers crossed the valley and fires approached the town from 2 fronts. I lost all cell service, a fiber optic line was damaged by fire. It was burning all the time i was there. I was worried about going to bed only to wake up to a fast approaching fire. I fared well. I changed some of my plans and spent all day Tuesday taking fire prevention measures around the cabin with a good buddy of mine. We both worked solid for 10 hours each. I trimmed all branches on tall trees to the 20+ foot mark, cut down smaller trees, raked all needles etc away from cabin, cabin is already surrounded by gravel. It was so much more open when I left.
A few pictures of the fire.
I suspect all will be fine, but it wont be over till the fire is out. I am home now. Left early this AM. Drove past blocked road to get out, fires right on the side of the road.
The drive back, smoke was so bad, the fire damage on the sides of the roads for 100 miles or so. It was hell on earth. Its like nothing i have ever seen before.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 08:40
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During a large fire a few years ago near my place in Northern California, the fire came into the outskirts of populated areas and burned a few homes. One of those homes was owned by a man who followed all the advice about how to build the house and how to thin the surrounding brush and trees, except for one thing. He had a wood pile within 30 feet of the house. It caught fire and caught the house on fire. So I guess the lesson is you have to be complete in your efforts, fire only needs one route to your house.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 15:15 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Well, fire is now about less than a mile from my cabin, other than the fact the wind changed for now, it doesn't look good otherwise. I will either have a cabin or an ash pile in 24 hours. I am literally getting sick to my stomach right now.
If you guys could say a prayer, I'd appreciate it. 
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 16:45
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech If you guys could say a prayer, I'd appreciate it.
prayers sent!!! I hope your place is spared.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 16:54
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Done.
Which fire? I know someone who is in a similar situation from the North Star fire. Hoping it all goes well for all.
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LoonWhisperer
Member
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 17:28
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Crap! That is way too close for comfort TMT. I truly hope it changes course and FAST!
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 17:40 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: MtnDon Which fire?
Okanogan Complex, its several, its the one on the east side of the valley, eastern end of the fire. Basically the far east end.
Just got back, finally took the wife on the quad around the perimeter, she wanted to see her total investment (that was just Sunday). Today, I grab a parallel kit for my second EU2000i I ended up with, also a Kubota dealer, she gives me a full PO (permission order) to buy the Kubota X1120D diesel RTV with roof, windshield, road legal, hydraulic dump bed, alloy wheels.
I told her I am waiting to see what happens over at the property first. I may have no use for it after today.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 18:56 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Ok, update from locals. Fire has stalled due to favorable winds. But we are supposed to get some gust tonight. This is not good, but doesnt mean its certainly over, far from out of the woods as of yet either. But for now, all seems OK (keep those prayers coming). We have a small local crew with a tanker and a bulldozer (D4/450-550 in size) and maybe they can try to keep it at bay.
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hattie
Member
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2015 19:30
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Prayers going your way. Keep us posted!!
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steverobertson
Member
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2015 13:41
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I lost everything from a wild fire when I lived in NM. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK8TEiEjXrE
New Mexico is still my home state, and I hate to see it burn away a little more every year.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2015 22:36
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As of this AM, I was told it (the area in which all these cabin owners community) are all in place. I was supposed to get more info later, but cell service is down. The fact it might have survived is amazing. The fire was headed right to is and 1 mile away, stalled. Lets hope the locals banded together when it was stalled to create a line. Anyway, I have accepted the fact it might be all gone and if it is,. I wont be in as much shock, depression etc. But if its intact, I will be euphoric and plans will be in order to clear 50 feet of trees from the cabin, spread all 5/8 minus gravel, sheet side with cement planks and close in soffets, and cement fascia boards. Also, metal covered window covers.
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AK Seabee
Member
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2015 23:14
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Not knowing is the worst, I am wishing you the best of luck Toyota.
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upndown
Member
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2015 00:15
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Toyota, right now all you can do is expect the worst, and pray for the best. Because with a wildfire you truly never know! I was on the phone with my buddy, built his place just up the hill from me. I caught him just as they were leaving..mandatory evacuation. He was looking out his kitchen window, he said it's heading right for us! A wind change turned that fire 180* our entire little community was spared.
Fingers are crossed for you hoping for the best!
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2015 10:40
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Thanks upndown. I just checked the latest fire map and it was updated last night, and the map shows the fire was still stalled at the same place. Just below the timberline in the grasslands. I can only suspect its out at that front. The map shows my entire area spared. I am not out of the woods yet, it has a southern front that could go south and come back up, we are in a draw, downhill which makes it slower. And there is another large fire east but its not moving my direction, just north. Estimates this fire will be fully contained on Sept 8th. So a lot can happen until then. I hope we get some heavy rain over that way.
But for now, unless I hear otherwise, I am assuming all is in place.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2015 11:00
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Looking good Toyota. We're rooting for you.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2015 13:14
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OK, got a call from my neighbor, the wide county road acted as a fire break. One members home was lost. This was his residence. Power is out, and a few smoldering hot spots, fire is moving away. Still could come, back around, and hot spots flare up. I emailed the fire team to let them know of our hot spots. They are spread thin but teams coming in from all over the world to help plus military has stepped in also and brought Blackhawks for water drops etc. But my entire 40 acres is in tact. It was less than a mile away. Please dont stop the prayers. I'm not out of the woods yet, but still in the game.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2015 17:02
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Remember that just cause the fire goes across the property doesn't mean that everything gets destroyed. If the fire fighters keep it to the ground and off buildings then it just burns the ground fuels. Sounds like conditions aren't too bad at your fire right now (heat, wind) which is what really makes it flare up.
Best wishes
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upndown
Member
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2015 22:35
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It still amazes me how an old log structure with a couple thrown together additions on either side can still remain standing, when every house on either side, across the street as well as down the road are completely reduced to ashes, melted vehicles and all?
Kind of like tornado footage where complete subdivisions are turned to match sticks, all built by the same builder and in the middle one remains standing.
I guess the old saying is true..If it's ment to be, it will be..if it's not, it won't be.
Still hoping for a possitive outcome for you!
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2015 23:11
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I think the lesson, upndown, boils down to a simple question- at the critical moment when the fire is closest, are the combustibles far enough away AND does your structure have enough fire resistive ability to avoid catching fire? 5 minutes later the fire is past- did your place catch or not?
You can say it's meant to be or not, and sometimes even the best prepared homes are lost, but on the averages the better prepared properties are the ones that survive.
But you look around my area where people have been living all their lives, they know it needs to be done, and they just don't do it. I've seen houses in the woods right up against brush and small trees. I guess there's some kind of procrastination embedded in human nature.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2015 23:25
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bldg insp, I think people like the little cabin snuggled in the woods. I'm over that now. I'm creating a swath of waste land now if I survive this ordeal. 
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2015 09:44
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I went through that too. Didn't want to cut many trees on my property at all, just the dead and dying. Now, having driven through the aftermath of several fires, I believe in extreme thinning- cut all trees that have any branches lower than 10-15 feet, leave the ground bare except for trunks, and thin out the crown too. Reality is that this more closely resembles the natural fire ecology that existed before we 'wise' Europeans came along and started putting out every fire that started. The forest needs to burn frequently so the brush doesn't build up. If the brush builds up, the fires are worse and kill everything.
Looks like you dodged the bullet Toyota! Congrats!
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