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seesaw
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# Posted: 31 Dec 2010 09:57pm
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I just read "Our new property & project" in its entirety and remembered why we're building our small cabin in the first place! We've been so caught up in materials and costs. I so much enjoyed the pictures
In Nov we closed on 5 beautiful and vacant acres in Ulster County. We're tent campers but 0 degrees is no fun, so we're planning a small, off the grid insulated "shed" for rain and frigid temps.
I'm liking the composting toilet system and hearing how the Mr. Buddy heater is working.
When I figure it out, I'll post some pics.
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MikeOnBike
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2011 02:24pm
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How big are you thinking? Do you have a 100 or 200sqft no permit limit?
If you just get it dried in the first year you will still gain a lot over the tent.
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seesaw
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2011 02:49pm
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We can build up to 144sq ft. without a permit. We're looking at tinyhouseblog's 8x16 solar house only not on wheels. Our favorite spot is pretty wet, we are wondering if we build on piles if it will just rot the cabin from below. It seems like the water is just draining from the land. Our land was logged and lots of cut up timber is laying around decomposing. We discovered that after all the ferns shriveled when it got cold. We thought about laying logs down and covering them with soil. Have you had any experience making wet areas dry?
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MikeOnBike
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2011 03:12pm
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No experience with wet ground. I'm in the desert and we are lucky enough to have a spring on our property.
Someone else here is probably familiar with wet ground building. I think laying logs down with soil over it actually increases moisture.
You will need to be careful using wood submerged in the ground. It is probably better to sink concrete piers and build on top of that. If the ground is especially soft make sure the piers have a wide base at the bottom of the hole.
Does it freeze at your location? NY right? If so you will need to get your piers below the frost line. Another thing I have heard is that if your soil doesn't frost heave you might be able to get by with building on blocks set on a gravel base. This will be easier to do if the ground is fairly level.
Here is my shed project with piers. We don't have clay and I dug down until I hit larger rocks. Much different than your situation.
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Robert
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2011 06:47pm - Edited by: Robert
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I avoided the need by trailer mounting my 130 sq ft tiny bungalow.
Might dig a french drain foundation area when I place it at the wooded farm. Look up French drain
http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/bp_foundation/article/0,2617,HPRO_20146_3463230,00.html
You may find you have plenty of raw material(small rocks) on your land.
Be sure to clear trees to a safe fall distance of the cabin.
Enjoy the build,take plenty of pictures!
robert@thetinybungalow.com
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cosmictotem
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2011 04:48pm - Edited by: cosmictotem
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Hi I just took the Google off ramp and ran into these forums. I am also planning on buying land in upstate NY (catskills) and building an off grid year round cabin. I'd be interested in knowing from seesaw what kind of restrictions and permits you ran up against and required in order to get your project off the ground?
Looks like a great forum!
Best,
cosmictotem
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seesaw
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2011 05:17pm
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welcome cosmictotem!
In Ulster Co, Town of Denning you can build a shed up to 144 ft without a bldg permit. You can't "live" in your shed. You can also have a trailer and stay in it but there's a restriction on time. That looked good also for a weekend place. Our area is full of off the grid camps like ours so we're anticipating that our neighbors will be cool (knock wood) We looked closer to the city but you can't get away with off the grid. Our area's a little wilder and prettier (in my opinion) but we pay with the extra time it takes to get there.
We only want a shed because we want to use it when it's too cold to camp so we're looking at it as an alternative to the tent. From reading this forum we've decided to insulate everything and install a wall mounted direct vent propane heater. I've gotten loads of good advice here.
Our favorite plan so far is Michael Janzen's 8x16-tiny-solar-house-plans-v2 from http://www.tinyhousedesign.com/
modified for foundation blocks, an insulated floor and flipped left to right.
Good luck and keep looking!
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cosmictotem
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2011 06:06pm - Edited by: cosmictotem
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Thanks for sharing, seesaw. Actually, Denning is further south than I expected. So that's not bad. Delhi or Kortright are towns that I would consider a little too north for me.
I've seen other off grid cabins in the catskills online such as in the Suagarties, Eldred, etc and was wondering what was involved in building such structures in the catskills.
Are you saying it is not allowed to live in any off grid structure in your area? Do you know if this is a broad policy in the lower catskills?
Is there a way to legally skirt this ordinance?
Thanks again and good to meet you!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2011 08:56pm
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I've no experience with the Catskills. However I have experienced more or less the same thing in a few other areas that are widely scattered across the continent. There are many places that have a cut off in square footage, below which a permit is not required. The intent is frequently for sheds to be used for storage. Where I live now and the last place we lived, there was language buried in the regulations that prohibited living/sleeping in such a shed. Our current county begins requiring a permit as soon as things like beds, sinks, and running water or a drain is involved.
Sometimes it is difficult to impossible to get around those kind of regs. If the location is remote, if no neighbors are in sight, etc. etc. sometimes it can be snuck in under the radar. But there's no guarantee that for what the future may bring.
I've found the best way to obtain info as to what is and isn't allowed, if it can not be determined on a web site, is to walk into the local zoning/building office and ask. No need to provide a real name, number etc. I've never had a problem doing that and very often they are quite helpful. My office had printed info packets with references to the ordinances involved.
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MikeOnBike
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2011 04:08pm
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Seesaw, that 8x16 plan may really work for you. If you have kids you can put them in the loft and use a futon down below for yourself and have a nice couch during the daytime. Since you wouldn't be on a trailer and won't have the wheel well I think I would use a 6' sliding glass door for the solar window. You can make a sliding wood door on the exterior that will protect the glass door when you are gone. Put a deck in front of the sliding glass door. If you get too much solar gain in the summer you can build a pergola over the deck and use greenhouse cloth to help control how much sun you get. Remove the greenhouse cloth in the fall/winter/spring. Square off the wall where the current entry is.
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seesaw
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2011 04:42pm
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Beautiful!
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seesaw
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2011 06:48pm
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Cosmictotem,
The way I understand it, once you start living in a structure it becomes a residence and then you're REQUIRED, yes, required to build a septic system and make a water source. Some people around here have made their camps "legal" - they're still off the grid but their taxes go up. In our NYC watershed, septic systems on our kind of rocky land start at 15K.
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cosmictotem
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2011 07:58pm
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Hmm...composting toilets or out houses are not allowed?
Thanks for all the great info you have provided. This really helped a lot!
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2011 07:12pm
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Thanks MikeOnBike.
Just in time. I've been drawing this house to scale and it's such a pleasure to see it built! I used your idea of sliders and deck in the front and it's working out nicely.
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cosmictotem
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2011 05:04pm
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Hi seesaw,
don't know if you or anyone else still visits the forum but i was wondering if denning was one of the areas threatened by the possibility of fracking in ny state? it looks and sounds like a great place but i would be a little concerned about any possible gas drilling. thanks and hope to talk with you soon.
cos.
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