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new2building2016
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 10:30pm
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We just purchased a house and although we observed a lot of sloppiness on the builders' behalf, we are determined to go through and fix what we can.
First on my list is the stairs. As you can see in the picture, there is a loft at the top. The first step off the loft is 7.5" onto a small landing. First step in the set of stairs is a 6" drop. After that they rest are all 8" risers........until you reach the final tread which drops you down a whole 11" to the hardwood floor.
I want to rip out the risers and treads because he just used plywood and painted over it - it looks horrible. I will replace them with real wood. But how do I go about compensating for the inconsistent riser heights? I will check again tomorrow but I believe the total height from hardwood floor to top of loft floor is 96".
This is coming from someone who is new to taking on home building projects  If anyone can chime in with some helpful suggestions, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks!
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knock
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 10:49pm
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If I had to guess I would say an incompetent carpenter or they put new treads over an existing stairway. If it is a new building, oh man did they mess up. One way to fix it is to drop the entire stairway from bottom step to the landing by 2 and 1/2 inches. Bottom is now 8.5, flight is 8, and top is 8.5. Definitely not code compliant, but more consistent.
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rockies
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 11:03pm
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This is a major code violation as well as a dangerous tripping hazard. It doesn't matter if just one step is off by a 1/2" - your brain thinks that each step in the staircase will be consistent and if the first or last step is too low or high you will trip every time.
You should have a stair company come out and measure for a new set of stairs and install them. Stairs are a very difficult thing to get right (esp by someone that isn't very experienced at wood-working)
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new2building2016
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 11:05pm
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No existing stairway but he built it 10 years ago. Incompetent - definitely. The list is long of things we need to fix but we'll take our time and do it correctly.
I obviously have to disassemble the entire banister to replace the treads and risers but if I drop the entire stairway 2 1/2 inches, how much drywall am I destroying and could I conceal the damage with a skirtboard?
The other thing I was contemplating was getting a bottom tread that would curve around below the newel post. I could then cut the drop from 11" to 5 1/2 to the final tread and 5 1/2 to the floor.
My inexperience is showing
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new2building2016
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 11:12pm
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Rockies,
I have been doing exactly that; tripping over that first step every time and yes, my spine even feels the slight difference because I'm already anticipating a particular height on the way down.
It would behoove us to have a competent company do a completely new set; "competent" being the key word. We're new to the state and I'm not encouraged by the quality and know-how we've seen thus far.
I will get quotes to install a new and correct set but I wanted to poke around and see if anyone had a less expensive approach. I know, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the right approach.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 11:42pm - Edited by: Don_P
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The stringers need to be replaced. If he had started low you possibly could work out a padding scheme. If he blew the risers the treads are quite likely off as well, all part of the cadence. You can start by removing the drywall that is just in the line of the stair framing but chances are it'll end up with a rebuild of the stair area. The pitch is off which means the wall framing needs work. If you can contain the damage skirts and trims might cover it but be ready. That's impressively bad.
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new2building2016
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# Posted: 3 Mar 2016 11:51pm
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Thanks Don. The rebuild is what I was anticipating and as was politely mentioned before, is out of my range of woodworking skills........at the moment anyway. Impressively bad indeed.
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AK Seabee
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 12:16am
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The stairs and drywall are an easy fix.
What is the distance between the top and bottom landing?
Also, do you have a framing square? If so I and more than likely others can explain how to build code compliant stair treads. First though call your building department and ask for the minimum and maximum height on the risers as well as the required tread widths.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 07:07am
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Here is a handy online stair calculator blocklayer.com stair calculator
Once you know the height from the ground to loft floor, the distance (length) you have to go you can plug in the numbers and it will give you the templates & measurements.
It's best to make stair even heights and tread depth the same. There is no "absolute rule" for height & depth as such BUT there is the International Building Code (base guideline that most building codes match) that states:
International Building Code for Stair treads and risers. 1009.3 Stair treads and risers.
Stair riser heights shall be 7 inches (178 mm) maximum and 4 inches (102 mm) minimum. Stair tread depths shall be 11 inches (279 mm) minimum. Jun 23, 2014
You can buy stringer kits and premade stringers as well, to simplify building the stairs ~but~ these are standard sizes and if the stair run exceeds the wall length you have then you'll have top adjust, modify, hack.
Hope it helps, good luck
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1tentman
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 05:06pm
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What is to the left of the steps , is it a open room or a wall. If you tear this out and start over the steps will be longer if you build it to code and it will extend out into that space that we cant see in the picture. Also put a level on the treads and see if they are level or tilted back towards the toe kick a little,Iam just curious.I cant believe somebody would use painted treads and toe kicks and then put that nice looking hand rail and spindles on it. It is very possible that you might not be able to fix it to code because of distance, but you can fix it to your code which is making all the heights the same, after all you are the person who needs to be happy. I know very thing needs to be built to code right, sometime we just have to push the limits a little to make things work.
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rockies
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 07:43pm
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Bear in mind that floor to floor measurements can be off a bit because of the finish flooring material. Lets say as an example that the distance from the top of the finished flooring on the main level to the top of the finish flooring on the second level is 112 inches. You would divide the height by the number of risers and get the height of each riser ( let's say 8 inches). So you would have 14 risers of 8 inches in height to equal a total height of 112".
Lots of people would cut the stringers with 14 equal risers of 8" and think that would be fine.....BUT IT'S NOT!
You see, when you rip out the old stairs you'll be down on the subfloor, not the finished floor. So if your finished floor is 3/4" thick, when you install the staircase your bottom step will be 3/4" too low and the top step will be 3/4" too high.
What you'll have to do is deduct the thickness of the finished floor from the top riser and add it to the bottom riser (8 3/4" for the bottom and 7 1/4" for the top) Once the finished flooring thickness is included each riser height will be 8 inches.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 08:15pm
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Just as an aside, most states adopt a more lenient set of rise/run dimensions. Most allow around an 8" riser height max and as little as a 9" tread.
Rockies touched on it. After I figure out the uniform rise/run I sketch to as much detail as necessary. First sketch the tops of the treads and the faces of the risers and the finished floors, then work your way back to the framing. You'll need to stare at it for awhile on your first set but it isn't rocket science. My first solo stringer attempt resides in the kudzu behind a bar, things went better in the morning.
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1tentman
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 09:20pm
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I see what you guys are saying and that pertains to building a new step. But he could take drywall out from top of stairs down, remove stud wall from under outside stringer, remove whole stair assembly cut 3" off bottom of stringer and lower top attaching point 2" and reinstall. This makes each rise 8" only drawback to that is the tread could possibly tilt downward a little, thats why I ask him to put level on treads this 11" measurement at the bottom just doesnt make sense. I wonder if the treads are tilted down by the toe kick a little, if so by lowering the bottom a 1" more than top wouldnt make that much differance. Reinstall ,put new wood treads on to match other wood paint toe kicks the same color as room,you dont loose any more room at bottom of steps and you can use hand rail and spindles. The only problem with this is handrail at the top might take a little work because it will attach where post starts to get smaller, but a little creative thinking and I think you could make it work.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2016 10:04pm
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This was why I said start in removing just the drywall in the stringer line. I see where you're going I think. try this, the first step is a 6" drop the bottom an 11". I'm guessing the builder neglected to trim the bottom of the stringers for tread to floor thickness, then put 2x temp treads on the stringers. Then someone simply slapped treads on top of a built up, sloppily cut set. It's usually easier to make a new set of stringers than to try to fix a botched set though.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2016 09:45pm
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Quoting: Don_P It's usually easier to make a new set of stringers than to try to fix a botched set though.
This ^^^...get a square and a set of stair gauges, maybe a book if you feel you need it, and give it a go. Try it on a piece of 3/8 ply first so you don't waste good 2x12's or 14's. Don't forget to account for your tread material, the upper level finished floor and/or the difference between. I feels so good to build stairs!
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pash
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# Posted: 7 Mar 2016 02:49am
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All of this information here is spot on, that is the way to do it right. Now what i am going to tell you isnt "correct" but we didn't have the money at the time to fix it correctly. I have done this on an old house from the 30's. It wasn't this extreme but we made it work without a complete redo. We changed the riser heights using different thicknesses of plywood. We used an extra smaller step at the bottom that kind of looked more like a landing and flared out, we thought it tricked the brain to see something different. So like in your case, for example, make the landing thicker, like add 2 inches to it. thus your first step to the landing is only 4 inches down but the you turn and you have solid 8 all the way down the to last step, then put in a 3 in tall flare or landing, thus it feels different. It worked for us, Like i said, its not perfect but it made us feel safer and saved us a ton of coin.
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