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Arlynn
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2013 04:30pm
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Hi Everyone. We purchased a small piece of land bordering a state park and state gamelands a year ago. Nice area. Our taxes were $19.00 for the year! Former owner had it for ten years at this rate.
Six months after we bought it we were assessed and taxes went to $220.00 without anything being done but grass cut. This has changed our minds on what and how we will build. We can't afford the upkeep of two residences.
What we are looking at is the no permit shed route. We have a spring, septic system and electric access. No building was on the land at time of purchase.
Anyway~ We're thinking of starting with 150 sq. ft. (max here without a permit) and divide it up into 1/2 bathroom, 1/2 sitting space with loft. Then, build a large screened in porch about the same size as the cabin. Glass patio doors which would open up the area to feel more like one large room.
We want to stay off grid so we are also looking into solar panels. After October we would need some other energy source. We have a travel trailer that uses propane and 12V appliances with deep cycle batteries. We bought it used just to stay in while we build. We're thinking about using some of it in the cabin.
We're enjoying reading your posts!
Arlen & Lynn
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2013 06:54pm
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Good plan and welcome. Used camper parts are the cheapest way to go.
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2013 08:31pm
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Thanks Owen.
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hattie
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2013 10:15pm
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Welcome to the forum Arlynn!  Can't wait to see photos of your land.
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Kharkov43
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 08:43am
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Hello and Welcome, I hate property taxs I beleive once your property is paid for you shouldn't have to pay property taxs and you own it and no one even the goverment shouldn't be able to take your land? Just my opinion.......
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 08:55am
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Our land will take a lot of work to make it what we want, but the price was right. We have a spring, septic system and access to electric. It's 1.25 acre.
To our surprise, the nicest part is the wooded hillside that can't be seen in these real estate photos. I'll get pictures next time we go up. It's 70 miles north of our home.
Since we have spent more time there we've decided to build on the hillside in the future and retire there. One of our sons wants our house so when that happens we'll build. The hill turns out to have a couple of large level spots that will accommodate our original 16' x 24' plans.
We'll go for an earth bermed facing south, but that won't be for a while.
Since the township threw us a whammy we're looking at building small at the site of an old cabin that was there before we purchased the land. The creek in the picture allows great fishing and state game lands are across the road for hunting.
It's close enough to spend lots of summer weekends at and a few during hunting season.
our land 1
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our land 2
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our land 3
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beside our land
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Arlynn
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 09:12am
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Picture 1 shows site of original cabin location, just below the pine tree. That first pole is a telephone line. Previous owner pushed the old cabin over the hill so we have some clean up to do. There are a lot of concrete block in good shape there that we can use though.
Picture #2 is a nice flat area and where we started a dwarf orchard around the edge of the hill. I might put an herb garden in there too with a couple of bee hives. You can see the large creek looking over the hill at this point.
Picture #3 is our camp fire area and picture 4 is the creek.
Lynn
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neb
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 10:02am
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Have fun and enjoy the experience! Looks like a great place to spend time.
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 10:51am
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I hope the leaves come out soon. LOL. It looks great.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 10:54am
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Arlynn... where is your land located? The pictures look like PA.
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 11:20am
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Thanks everyone. About the bare trees ~ these are pictures sent to us by the real estate company. We do have leaves now
Kharkov43: We have the same opinion! I don't mind paying my fair share to keep things up and running, but it's getting ridiculous. Now were looking for ways to get around the system!
We taught our kids to be good patriotic citizens, obeying laws and contributing to society. Now this feels creepy like we're about to do something wrong 
e are getting close to retirement (62 yrs and 58 yrs) and trying to set up something for our future that we can handle. We'll continue to work part time jobs most likely as long as we can because face it ~ who knows how long there will be medicare and social security as we know it.
Our intention is to have a garden, a couple miniature goats and chickens. There are some elderberry bushes and hawthorn trees I can make some things out of and sell. I would like to do more than that. We'll see more we can do once we spend more time there.
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 11:22am
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Our land is in Venango County, PA. Are you in PA too?
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Sustainusfarm
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 11:41am
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because it appears you already have a foundation you may have a grandfather clause that may allow you to renovate that old foundation as long as you stay within that footprint!!?? I would check that out....
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 11:51am
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A grandfather clause! I hadn't thought of that! Would the township be able to give us that information?
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 12:53pm
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Arlynn... FYI... something else to consider, although if you are planning to live in your cabin permanently it would not work. But many rural areas of PA recognize the "Recreational Cabin Affadivit". The RCA replaces the bulding permit and allows you to build most cabins without being required to adhere to the UCC building codes (sewer and possibly other local permits may still required however). The RCA does carry with it several restrictions.
Certain structures that are used solely by an individual or family for seasonal recreational use, such as hunting / fishing camps, may be excluded under Pennsylvania law from certain construction requirements of the code. In order to be excluded from these construction requirements, a sworn Affidavit must be filed with the Building Code Official indicating the structure will be used solely as a "recreational cabin". Under state law, a "Recreational Cabin" is defined as a structure that is:
Utilized principally for recreational activity ONLY.
NOT utilized as a residence for any period of time.
NOT utilized for any commercial purposes, including rental units
NOT greater than two stories in height.
NOT utilized by the owner, or any other person, as a place of employment.
NOT a mailing address for bill or other correspondence.
NOT listed as an individual's place of residence on a drivers license, tax record, car registration, passport, or voter registration.
Approval of this Exclusion is contingent upon the installation of at least one smoke detector, one fire extinguisher and one carbon monoxide detector in BOTH the kitchen and sleeping quarters
of the cabin.
It is very important to note that once a dwelling is declared as a Recreational Cabin, the limitations described above will follow the building to subsequent owners of the property. The Affidavit is
recorded at the County Courthouse. Owners should be aware that claiming a structure as a recreational cabin may lessen the value of the building for resale purposes.
p.s. My cabin, which is permitted by an RCA, is in Bedford Co. (south-central PA).
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 22 Jun 2013 02:33pm
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Thank you so much for this information! This was something we were considering but had no idea it could not be changed. Also, we are serious about living there someday.
We've already made friends with the locals nearest to us and consider them good neighbors. One man came up to see what was happening at our place when he heard ATVs in our area. They were teens that he knew riding through our place. He told them we are good people and to respect our property and to consider us neighbors. We are thankful he's watching out for us.
You saved us some time. Thanks again.
Before we bought our place we used to get a room in Somerset now and then and look for land there. All of Pennsylvania is so beautiful. I thought we would end up with something near Somerset though.
We are NW PA
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Purplerules
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# Posted: 23 Jun 2013 10:37pm
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Welcome to the land ownership journey. Nothing but fun ahead and a bit of hard work with lots of reward! Your land looks awesome.
Be sure to post pics of your journey.
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2013 10:38am
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Thanks Purplerules! Yes it has been interesting to say the least but we've already had a good time there. We have a 35 foot travel trailer on the land that we purchased used. We have water and septic.
We've hesitated to hook up to the electricity because we really want to be off grid. We've had to do so many other things first. For instance, nobody could show us where the septic tank was located. So we dug. And dug and dug into shale. Found it. Next on the agenda was the location of the spring. Again, no help from the former ownerr or the real estate people. Husband spoke with someone in the nearby neighborhood and turned out he knew all about the place. He took him about a mile and a half through the woods on a logging company's land. The spring is shared with his neighborhood. A spring house had to be built. I didn't see it for myself but husband said it was bad.
We bought an ATV to help with some jobs and now we need an auger for fence poles and our cabin build. No post hole digger for that ground.
We have the hillside to clean up where the original cabin was bull dozed over by previous owner. It will be worth it though. There's hardwoods on the hill and many spots where we can naturalize some plants we wan around. There's already fiddle ferns. I want to add mountain laurel and sweet woodruff. We haven't even explored the whole area yet.
husband won't be happy with the small build after all. It so happens that the original foundation is 24' wide. The plans we purchased are for a 14' x 24' cabin. After being there this weekend we're talking about the 14 x 24 with a slip form foundation.
URL
We have a couple of books that show how to do this. Thoms Elpel wrote a book called, "Living Homes" that we really like.
Lynn
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spencerin
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 01:38am
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Arlynn,
Always smile when I see a new NW PA-er post because I understand the beauty of the area. My place is not there, but my Dad's is (Forest County), so we have made many trips through Venango County to get there over the years. NW PA is beautiful.
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 01:06pm
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I agree with you 100%. We looked at many properties in Forest County. When we first began to look we saw 3.25 acres on Rt. 36. Tried to get a loan and the bank turned us down saying we did not have enough recent credit history. A friend told us it is because we didn't have credit cards.
That's when we began that journey But it was the only thing that made us credit worthy. We ended up better off though because we got the water, septic and option of hooking up to electricity for $11,000.00 and got a personal loan rather than equity loan which they all really wanted us to do.
We'll be starting our build soon. Husband has to catch up on reading posts. This is our first big project!
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tnky03
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 03:27pm
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Welcome Arlynn! Your place looks beautiful and it sounds like you are already finding much pleasure. We are in the same age bracket, 58 and 62. We also are setting out for an off grid life, been gradually working into it almost two years now. We currently live in our motorhome while finishing our 12x40cabin shed. We haven't got our tax bill at our new place yet and just hope they are too busy to re-access, lol. Looking forward to seeing your progress.
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 10:30pm
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Thank you tnky! I'll look up your project. I'm sure we can learn from your experiences.
We are having fun
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 10:47pm
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Arlynn !welcome.we are going yur route too.
u sound like u have alot of interesting ideas.
we are gonna eventually live in our little 200 sq.ft.cabin till we can get a bigger home built.i can wait to see your cabin.hugs cabi.
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2013 07:18pm
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Hi Cabingal
I followed your build because the size was right! It is adorable! I'm going to have to have Ar follow it. Plus your husband is a riot.
I can't wait until we start. It's been a year, ugh.
Tanks for the welcome ~ big hugs to you too!
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 29 Jun 2013 01:23am
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thanks to u too .so glad u joined us cabineers! waiting and very excited to see what u two will come up with.know it wil be wonderful.
Quoting: Kharkov43 Hello and Welcome, I hate property taxs I beleive once your property is paid for you shouldn't have to pay property taxs and you own it and no one even the goverment shouldn't be able to take your land? Just my opinion.......
hee hee.i think this too.
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 29 Jun 2013 08:36am
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You guys are great! I'm getting so anxious.
Ar is having trouble deciding between post and pier or concrete foundation. Not happy about the tax and building permit situation but he wants what he wants. Still contemplating the 14 x 24 rather than 10 x 15. 
At this point I just want a cabin. Any cabin. I'll be happy with whatever he decides! I'll get pictures of the site with my camera this time. My car was in the shop and camera was in it. Phone pictures were bad because of the sun glare.
I'll have more pictures up this weekend. We are working on the spring up there too.
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 29 Jun 2013 02:09pm
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New picture ~ above old foundation. This is the location we plan to build on.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 29 Jun 2013 04:32pm
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Welcome Arlynn - You sound just like us, but we're on the other side of the country. Hey, if you decide to (or have to) stay with the small footprint, consider what we were going to do...build one structure, then another or even more, connect them with decking or? Although some jurisdictions will try and limit how close these can be, it is still a way around the system. Depends how close and how nosy your neighbors are, too....I saw some cool houses done like this!
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Purplerules
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# Posted: 29 Jun 2013 11:01pm
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Looks like a lovely spot for the cabin.
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Arlynn
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2013 09:15am
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Hi Borrego! I like that idea also and I'm sure we have the space to do that at the old foundation.
Most years we don't have real winter weather until after Thanksgiving. Of course we've never lived on the side of a mountain before either. We'll also have more "lake effect weather being closer to the great lakes.
We need to find out about an attached porch. I think for us this would be better. There might be something that says it can't be attached or will be included in square footage, I don't know.
Thank you for the idea, it's all being considered.
Fortunately we don't have many neighbors!
Lynn
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