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Martian
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2012 08:37pm
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Several times my ex wife and I have talked about putting in a water stroage tank. Now, our well is going dry from the lack of rain. We've lived here for thirteen years, and this is the first time our well is having trouble recovering.
Here is an old homestead in Chase County Kansas. Before we bought it, no one had lived here since the 50's. Now I know why they abandoned it. There are/were indications that this was a prosporous place, but there was a terrible drought in the 50's. I'd bet the well went dry, and they couldn't water their animals or themselves. They had no option but to leave.
We, on the other hand, do. Our next project will be burying an 850 gallon tank to hold the water from a government well about 5 miles away. Why not dig a deeper well? Well, that's pretty expensive and there are no guarantees.
Hauling water is nothing new to either of us. We lived on a sailboat that had a 40 gal fresh water tank. Many's the time I've rowed over half a mile in a dinghy filled with water jugs to and from the nearest water source. Believe me, I know how to conserve water to cut down on the trips.
Anyway, I checked prices on line for below ground tanks, and then called Jim at my local hardware store. His price for the same tank is the same as on line; so I'm buying from him. It'll take about three weeks to get it because of the manufacturer's backlog, but I can live with that. Keeping it in the family, I'm going to use his son for the backhoe work. They just had a baby and can use the support.
We have an open area right next to the well pit for planting the tank. It should be easy to punch a line into the pit, mount the pressure pump, and tie into the system that feeds both cabins; hers and mine. (She is my EX wife after all. ) The location also has easy access from the driveway to her place. It'll be easy to back the transfer tank into place.
I don't have any experience at burying a tank. My reading has educated me somewhat; however, if anybody has done this, I'd like to know what pitfalls I should aware of. The soil is clay. I plan on putting a foot of sand around the tank and having a 4" layer of tailings under it. Is there anything else I should think about?
Tom
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sparky1
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2012 09:01pm - Edited by: sparky1
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I put a tank in the ground Before Y2K for the heck of it--so i could have Gravity feed to the toilet and some drinking if it got to that.I did the sand bottom thing .also for the heck of it--temperature thing i did 3/4" styrofoam all around it-& slowly back filled (AFTER the Tank WAS full.so as NOT to crush the tank. been full ever since never used it,,leaves cover to simi hide it-nothing has ever been on top other than the cat(yes it's below the surface (1) ft) i bought the Green colored one-
some day i'll figure how to cover it without crushing it.as of now-not worried.
sparky1
ps i bought my tank "Tractor supply".
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2012 10:19pm
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Most tanks rated for burial do have to be kept 25% full at a minimum, IIRC. Check the specs on the one you have coming. Spherical tanks can be emptied completely, but even then if the ground is very wet, if there is not enough dirt on top, the spherical type may rise.
How deep will it be and how does that compare to the frost depth? Mine should have been a foot or so deeper to make a full tank "bulletproof" in the deeper freezes where we are. I worked around the problem with an air injector in the pipe down into the tank.
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Martian
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2012 10:47pm
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The tank I'm getting is 67" tall. I plan on planting it with the top about 24" below grade. That will put the bulk of the tank more than 3' below grade.
The specs say it can be completely emptied. There are 3" ribs molded in for support. We are locating it on the side of a slight hill; so drainage is good. The well pit gets about 8" of water in it when its really wet. The tank will sit about 4" above the bottom of the pit. That shouldn't be enough water to float it.
Tom
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Nirky
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2012 11:24pm
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Rainwater catchment.
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2012 11:33pm
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Quoting: Nirky Rainwater catchment.
If he had rainwater to catch, the well wouldn't be going dry
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Martian
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2012 07:46am - Edited by: Martian
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Quoting: Rob_O If he had rainwater to catch, the well wouldn't be going dry
DING! DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!
Exactly, Rob.
Tom
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2012 05:34pm
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Ding, ding dinghy...I'm smiling at the thought of you rowing back to your boat with water in hand!Not sure why that is funny to me. 
and you do know Tom, that once you bury your holding tank, if you have our kind of luck, you are practically guaranteed to have plenty of rain come to Chase county!!! and your neighbors will love you for it!!!
Hope you don't completely dry up before the next 3 weeks 
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Martian
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2012 07:01pm
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Quoting: trollbridge and you do know Tom, that once you bury your holding tank, if you have our kind of luck, you are practically guaranteed to have plenty of rain come to Chase county!!! and your neighbors will love you for it!!!
They said kind of the same thing when I built the treehouse; its in a flood plain, but 9' in the air. Everybody said it would never flood again now that I was prepared. Well, it hasn't.
If spending a couple of grand on a cistern tank insures adequate rain, I'll have no regrets about spending the money.
Tom
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2012 07:23pm
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Quoting: Martian If spending a couple of grand on a cistern tank insures adequate rain, I'll have no regrets about spending the money.
Exactly...worth the peace of mind
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 21 Sep 2012 10:26pm - Edited by: Martian
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To bring everybody up to date:
We received the 850gl, 60"X60"X70" tank, buried it 7' down, put sand around it as we filled it, and we made a nice dipstick to measure how much water is in the tank. One problem. The tank doesn't hold 850gl like we were told.
Well, let me qualify that. It doesn't hold 850gl if the transfer tank marking are accurate. Both tanks come from the same manufacturer. The transfer tank is supposed to hold 225gl which is close to what it should be when the dimensions are plugged into a liquid volume formula. The cistern tank also works out to its advertised capacity using the outside dimensions, except it has 3" deep ribs alternating around it. The transfer tank doesn't have the ribs; so I figure it is pretty accurately marked.
Anyway, As we backfilled the hole, I was adding water and marking my dipstick. The cistern tank was full to overflowing on the third load; roughly 660 gallons. Thinking I might have received a mismarked tank, I contacted the manufacturer and learned that they don't make a smaller version of this tank. They also told me that they have been making this tank for more than 11 years, and nobody had ever questioned the capacity.
We've had a good email conversation about how I might have screwed up my measurements. Maybe I forgot a load? I admited that I might have forgotten a 10 mile round trip to the well, which takes 45 minutes. And, I might have forgotten to mark my dipstick every 110gl while dumping the water in. "Its possible," I said, "But not very likely"
Well, the other day, I had to refill the tank. According to the dipstick, we had about 240 gallons left. After adding the first tank, it was just above my 440 mark. The second tank, it overflowed the cistern before the transfer tank was empty! I sent Greg, the customer service guy, an email update.
Today I get a call from him. He is really nice, and told me engineering would be filling a tank to verify my findings, but he admited there had to be some loss due to the ribs. He said he was enjoying this diversion from his usual routine of dealing with 'do you have' inquiries.
At some point we will work out a settlement. I thought I was buying an 850 gallon tank. I even expected a little variation from the advertised capacity, but 175+ gallons variation seems a bit extreme. Had I known , I'd have bought the next size up.
So, if you decide to buy an in-ground tank, be aware. It may not hold as much as they say. Do your homework.
Tom
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OwenChristensen
Member
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# Posted: 22 Sep 2012 08:55am - Edited by: OwenChristensen
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Martian
I have a shallow well too and We have been having issues. Limmiting our use, and sometimes going without any water for a half hour or so. The water table is low. I have a better well for my horses about 150' away. I came home last night and we had run out of water with very little use. Since so little water is for drinking I ran a hose from the other well and plumbed it into the house. Saved for now, but if we don't get a good hard rain soon, freezing temps will put an end to that.
I can't believe this will continue.
Owen
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 22 Sep 2012 10:10am - Edited by: Martian
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Owen, if I had access to a well only 150' away, I'd bury a water line.
It cost us a total of $3000 dollars for our system even though we did most of the work. The only thing we farmed out was digging the 8'X7'X7' hole and setting the tank in it at a cost of $450. I did the plumbing and electrical for the pump. We even shoveled the sand in around the tank as we filled it.
Tom
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 22 Sep 2012 10:23am
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You're right. I should go ahead and rent a hoe. I not real comfortable with the horse well. Too close to those polultants. I'll probably need to bleach the system later. Who knows, maybe this is the future. Climate change. I hope our lush green woods don't disapear. I guess I better go get some drinking water.
Owen
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Bevis
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# Posted: 23 Sep 2012 01:15pm
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Tom,
I would be happy to send you some of the rain we have gotten every day... 11+ inches in the last 5-7 days.
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MJW
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# Posted: 23 Sep 2012 01:26pm
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We are in South Dakota this month and the drought is so bad they won't even allow you to use a charcoal grill much less have a campfire.
The ground is cracked open all over. Really bad.
The Badlands is still beautiful, though.
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Martian
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# Posted: 23 Sep 2012 05:47pm
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Quoting: Bevis Tom, I would be happy to send you some of the rain we have gotten every day... 11+ inches in the last 5-7 days.
If only it were possible! We'd be the most popular people around, Bevis.
Tom
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2012 11:08pm - Edited by: Martian
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Update: The tank manufacturer has admitted their 850 gal tank holds only 700 gal. They've offered me a rebate, but I wonder about everybody else who thinks thay have an 850 gallon capacity tank. They've been making/selling this tank for years.
They are changing the labeling and advertising, according to the person I've been dealing with.
Tom
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OwenChristensen
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2012 07:29am
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It's raining a little here in Northern MN. I'm still worried though, the well is still low. I figure I have an extra foot of water below my pump. I have a submersable and the intake is not on the bottom. If I go to a jet pump or drive a point into the bottom of the well I'll be OK.
Owen
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