|
| Author |
Message |
foxtrot
Member
|
# Posted: 13 Apr 2025 01:57pm
Reply
Hello, I'm in Arundel QC and have 1 acre without any other buildings. I've sent an email to the municiple asking if I need a permit. I said it would be three season, on a regular tent platform without plumbing or electric. I was too afraid to give more detai?ls than that because I've read a lot depends on your wording. Also per my research its a gray area where a yurt falls but very specific for dwelling or building and to go from there, word yourself and around it (if you want is as f/t or not). Its my 2nd email to the municiple the 1st wasnt answered. if it goes up to 3-4 unanswered I'm wondering if legally I can consider this answer too: I tried several times, got no response so went ahead. Its going to be a modern stle yurt (not tradtional) yes it can come down but your not ever planning to. I love the traditional yurts but the dont take real windows and doors well, or quebec winters
|
|
FishHog
Member
|
# Posted: 13 Apr 2025 03:30pm
Reply
Don't know about Quebec laws, but I don't think lack of response to an email means OK. Think I'd be making a phone call or even a visit in person before I'd assume your OK.
|
|
MtnDon
Member
|
# Posted: 13 Apr 2025 04:39pm
Reply
Quoting: FishHog I don't think lack of response to an email means OK.
Affirmative
My guess is that you need a permit to be legal.
It would be annoying to have the emails unanswered but if that is the case, phone or visit or go ahead and be watching over your shoulder.
.
|
|
razmichael
Member
|
# Posted: 13 Apr 2025 07:57pm
Reply
Firstly study the provincial building regs (available online) so you know them well. This is important so if they say you can't do something, you should be able to ask "where does it say that" and unless they have specific bylaws and regs, they fall under the provincial. I went through this 10 or so years ago when I wanted to put up a cabin with an outhouse and they said no - I was able to point to the provincial rules on hunting camps (I did need to have a septic engineer certify that I could put one in if needed later). Where I am you need a permit for everything but they are really cheap and easy to get. Go in and visit, be polite and know the rules before hand. I didn't see anything on their website that looked like local building regs or bylaws but I only glanced at it. Our cabin is solar and no septic with a grey water pit (you can't technically have pressurized water with a grey water pit. Being 3 or 4 seasons does not really make it difference rather the amount per year it is used.
As noted, doing it and asking forgiveness after might work but very risky and they can have you tear down something if it violates some reg. Most of those small communities are unregulated so go by the provincial code.
|
|
foxtrot
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Apr 2025 08:21am
Reply
Thank you everyone for your help!!! It was my first time posting and exciting to see there were responses. I'm using solar now too and very happy with it. It runs everything but heat well. I was going to put it up and if needs be beg forgiveness after but lost my nerve. The most discreet corner on the property gets the least light and I was going to tuck it in there. I'd be taking a loan out for about half of it too. It would be so awful if I had to take it down. I also dont want to live worried about it all the time. I dont want it in a dark corner after. I thought I'd be able to put a Tiny home on the property. I'd read Aurundel was one of the muicipalities that allowed them in QC (there are only four) ... to find after it meant "at a campsite". It has one of the four campsites you could park them at year round. I'll let you know how it goes. I am hoping to get at least get a yes or no to needing a permit by email (I pray ?for a no). I'm gearing up to put a sand point well in this summer if anyone has tips about that. I had read municiple bylaws inside out but not provincal. I'll sort of knew I should go in person if the emails didnt get answered but was hoping someone here would say, yes that means you dont have to worry about it ? does anyone knkw if it well make a difference if Its used as a studio instead of living space. Many thanks for your help.
|
|
Grizzlyman
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Apr 2025 08:25am
Reply
Different here in the US obviously. But in MN yurts do not require a permit and are not taxable improvements either as they are technically not permanent. We looked into this pretty hard before building a cabin. After paying taxes last week I’m thinking it wouldn’t have been a terrible idea lol.
|
|
foxtrot
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Apr 2025 08:33am
Reply
I forgot to say, I have an email saying they will let me put up an 'artisan terasse up to practice my trade in' but the man who wrote it has left. I had gone in person before I bought it, but a yurt never came up. I wasnt thinking about yurts then, I wanted a shed. He handed me a 'changement de usage' form on the way out. I didnt follow through immediately (stupidly) because there was nothing i could do before i got some trees down. When I returned to complete the paper work they told me he had been wrong I wasnt allowed to do that.
|
|
razmichael
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Apr 2025 01:48pm
Reply
"I am hoping to get at least get a yes or no to needing a permit by email (I pray ?for a no)"
Just to reiterate, needing a permit is not necessarily a big deal. If you are allowed to do it then it may or may not require a permit but the two are not completely connected (not explaining this well). As I mentioned, in my area of Quebec I need a permit for everything but even building the cabin was less than $100 (and the person actually paid it for me until I could get on location to pay her back). When I was building she came out and did an "inspection" which was really just confirming that I was far enough from the waterfront. For my grey water system I just emailed a photo of it prior to putting the top on.
|
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Apr 2025 02:08pm - Edited by: gcrank1
Reply
Get statements in writing, signed and dated on the dept letterhead
|
|
foxtrot
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Apr 2025 02:28pm
Reply
Hello they wrote back. I'm posting for feedback and that maybe it will help others, because I am going to continue to try. I've contacted this company: https://mpmag.com/ and asked if they had Yurt experience. To be clear, I dont have a main building, not even a shed. I'm on a pretty low budget here. I can do 20" yurt ? I'll need to take out a small loan to help and this contributed to why I lost my nerve to put it up without a permit. Heres the letter the english translation is beneathe it:
Bonjour
Pour être capable de vous répondre convenablement il faut qu’on sache a quoi servira le projet de yourte afin de voir si le projet est compatible à la règlementation.
Cependant vous devez savoir que votre yourte considéré comme un bâtiment accessoire ne peut être installé seulement que s’il existe déjà un bâtiment principal sur le terrain.
Dans la mesure ou il n’y a aucun bâtiment principal existant l’installation de la yourte devient impossible vis-à-vis de la réglementation.
Hello To be able to answer your question properly, we need to know what the yurt project will be used for in order to determine whether it complies with the regulations. However, you should be aware that your yurt, considered an accessory building, can only be installed if there is already a main building on the property. If there is no existing main building, installing the yurt becomes impossible due to regulations.
|
|
MtnDon
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Apr 2025 02:56pm
Reply
Quoting: foxtrot However, you should be aware that your yurt, considered an accessory building, can only be installed if there is already a main building on the property. If there is no existing main building, installing the yurt becomes impossible due to regulations.
That is pretty much ubiquitous everywhere in the US and Canada, and misunderstood by many. The good thing is that you now have an official response, though it is not what you hoped for. Perhaps an inquiry as to what minimum size and what minimum equipment would be required to receive a permit should be the next step?
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Apr 2025 07:36pm
Reply
Imo the last line says it all;"if there is no existing main building, installing the yurt becomes IMPOSSIBLE due to regulations".
|
|
foxtrot
Member
|
# Posted: 16 Apr 2025 03:09pm
Reply
Does anyone think speaking to a real estate attorney may help? I wrote back to the municipal and asked if we could, with the help of an engineer, bring it up to code as a main building, or keep it under code as a tent/gazebo so it wont need a permit. is there anyone out there in quebec who successfully got a yurt permit? thank you
|
|
FishHog
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2025 05:23am
Reply
If money is tight I don’t think speaking to an attorney is going to help you at all
Lots of people tent camp until they can afford to build. Might be your best option
|
|
Brettny
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2025 06:01am
Reply
Quoting: foxtrot Does anyone think speaking to a real estate attorney may help?
No that prob wont help. This is why you ask the local authorities if you can do what your planing before you buy a piece of property.
Making a call, email or showing up in person prior to putting an offer in on a property can save you thousands of dollars. I would not trust the word of a real estate agent, seller or neighbor on this.
|
|
jsahara24
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2025 08:21am - Edited by: jsahara24
Reply
Quoting: foxtrot Does anyone think speaking to a real estate attorney may help?
I don't know how Canada works, but if you were in PA I would recommend speaking with an attorney that consistently works in the area and knows all the players, especially the municipalities solicitor (attorney) and their engineer.
They say its not what you know, but who you know. This really plays out when getting questionable things approved. But, just realize you are going to have to spend some $$$ and it may not happen....
|
|
foxtrot
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2025 09:13am
Reply
I had gone to the municiple before i bought the property. A yurt never came up it hadnt occurred to me then. I was disappointned how many things I "assumed" i could do I couldnt. I left being assured I could put up an artisan commercial (terasse) and that was the best he could do without a main building, and I was incredibly grateful. He gave me a changement de usage doc. I have an email saying he will permit this which I showed them. I was told he was wrong and he was gone. I'm just wondering how the heck does anyone get a yurt permitted in QC (without a primary) it seems to be difficult even with one. I really dont want to go to an attorney and waste a bunch of money. In general, I'm feeling like I should stop banging my head against a rock. thanks everyone for helping. I wrote to them again and asked if with the help of an engineer we could bring a yurt up to code to have it considered a main building or conversly with the help of an engineer keep it under code so that it falls under tent/gazebo.
|
|
foxtrot
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2025 09:19am
Reply
p.s. I dont want to wave the email around too much but I did point out in my last one to the municipleb if they could please consider my disappointment as I had gone into the purchase believing I was going to be able to do this (i.e. without a main building).
|
|
razmichael
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2025 09:57am
Reply
foxtrot - don't confuse a permit with building code (although they might be related in some circumstances). The local municipality has likely never dealt with a Yurt and I don't think you or them will find anything in the overall building codes dealing with them (although I would also suggest you talk to the manufacturer). Again, I don't know if the overall Quebec Regs have changed or those specific to my location, but i needed a permit to use a pop-up trailer on my land (prior to building). I needed a permit to do a privy (outhouse) and grey water disposal pit etc etc. As I stated, you need to do some homework first to see what the overall Quebec rules allow and then deal with anything that might be specific bylaws in your area, otherwise they will say NO to anything out of the ordinary.
For example, are you allowed to camp on your land for x numbers of days per year (seasonal)? Camping may include a tent, trailer or Yurt? How does the 'Seasonal Dwelling' rules apply?
One of the most difficult thing you will run into will be septic but there are rules that allow both a privy and grey water within the Quebec rules:
URL
47. Disposal site: Construction of a privy is permitted provided the following conditions are met:
52. Isolated dwelling without a pressurized water system: Where a privy serves an isolated dwelling which is not supplied by a pressurized water pipe and which is inhabited less than 180 days per year, grey water must be purified by a seepage pit built in accordance with the standards in paragraphs c and d of section 32, paragraphs c and d of section 34, section 35, and with the following standards:
URL
2. Scope of application: This Regulation applies to the disposal of domestic waste water, grey water and toilet effluents from the following buildings and site if they are not connected to a sewer system authorized by the Minister under the Act, or the watertight treatment system of the buildings or site is connected to a municipal wastewater treatment works:
So work your way up from camping as a start but be prepared with the knowledge to be able to say "where in your bylaws does it say that as the Quebec Regulations state...". Once you know what you can do then the permits, when needed, fall into place.
I have not done any major investigation for changes from when I dealt with this but I stress that the only reason I was able to build my cabin was that I went with the background rules well known and politely questioned anytime they said NO to anything. I have my doubts that any engineering effort will not bring a Yurt up to a building code (even the minimum space regs)and there are no building codes for tents.
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2025 10:47am - Edited by: gcrank1
Reply
Imo a yurt will fail every building code for main building; ie, it is a tent.
I sympathize with you, we hit the brick wall some years back (for a small cabin) and couldn't even get suggestions from the 'office of denial' of what to do or even who to go to find out. So much for 'public servants'. All they wanted in the area was full on housing.
Our current location and situation has been far better, and our description is 'hunting/fishing/recreational' with no plumbing (we are totally off grid). We did ask first and got a permit. And we are in an area with a lot of cottages and cabins so the powers that be seem to accommodate the idea perhaps easier than others.
Maybe you should sell that property and find a better situation elsewhere. I suggest more acreage, 1 acre is awfully small.
If you buy a place with an already existing 'distressed' structure, even if it needs a total rebuild, you have your foot well in the door.
|
|
Brettny
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2025 11:15am
Reply
Quoting: razmichael I have my doubts that any engineering effort will not bring a Yurt up to a building code (even the minimum space regs)and there are no building codes for tents
That brings up the fact that they may consider a yurt a temporary structure and dont allow that. However if they dont have a specific code for temporary structures or camping structures you may beable to get around this. There also may be things that dosnt qualify your yurt for a temporary structure .. like the foundation its built on. Or maybe you need a permit for a tent platform. All things to ask. I would go in person.
|
|
DRP
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Apr 2025 07:53pm
Reply
Quoting: Brettny I would not trust the word of a real estate agent
I don't think I can add to that 
A real estate attorney generally knows little/nothing of construction laws though. Our building dept is funded locally but answers to the state to avoid the conflicts above. That said, the good old boy system is alive and well.
The yurt or the primary residence needs to be the habitable structure. Read the building planning chapter of your code and see if the yurt can be made to comply, the alternative methods and materials section of your code may help. The yurt builder must have experienced this before, what do they say... they have a potential sale to protect here. Our building officials generally leave it up to us to find a way to compliance at our expense... usually an engineer's review and letter. The yurt supplier should have several.
If the yurt is a money saving move, factor in the cost of getting an alternative through the hurdles. Rarely is that the cheap and easy path. Our code (US) does have a tiny home section.
VERY often the permit desk will give the lazy, or unknowing answer. They would rather deal with an architect or engineer that already knows the rules. In taking on that role it is up to you to know. The tipoff in that response was "impossible",... game on This human would never get another question from me. In my world the approach becomes one of knowing the law better than them, do your homework. Present plans and permit application, polite but not asking permission... "This is what I'm doing". They now have to provide in writing, with citations, why they are not allowing me to do as planned. Then go read the cited law sections and see if their interpretation is correct or if you can modify the plans to pass plan review.
If you choose the path less travelled, be aware. Dragons be there. Sharpen up or take the other road.
|
|
|
