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mikesova
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2024 17:28
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I was thinking something along the lines of a tent stove maybe.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2024 19:07
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paulz
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2024 13:54
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Quoting: ICC ...easy stuff to split into kindling
Yes, been easy to start the stove lately. No lighter fluid, diesel to douse wet twigs. Should get me through winter.
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mikesova
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# Posted: 1 Oct 2024 16:22 - Edited by: mikesova
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Made some progress on the shed last weekend. I got the interior wired up with some outlets, boxes for some sconces, and some switched outdoor porch lights. I just have the circuits tied together in an exterior junction box connected to a recessed male plug. I can plug a 12ga extension cord into the shed to power it up. I left enough wire though, so if I decide to down the line, I can install an outdoor breaker box for a few circuits. I don't think I'll need more than 20amp in the building though.
I also had gotten a couple shed windows on amazon that we installed with the help of my dad.
I just need to wire for a ceiling light and I should be done with that and ready to put up some insulation.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Oct 2024 17:47
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Lookin Good 
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Oct 2024 18:32
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Quoting: mikesova I was thinking something along the lines of a tent stove maybe.
Tent stoves are not qualified, certified or designed for use in a cabin. See cubic stoves or similar for small stoves. https://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/
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Brettny
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# Posted: 1 Oct 2024 18:35
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Quoting: mikesova I was thinking something along the lines of a tent stove maybe.
I wouldnt use one of those. There really tiny and really thin material. Really tiny means you prob wont get a fire to last the night and feeding kindling sized sticks into one will get old.
If your spray foaming and are willing to spend a few bucks Martin direct vent heaters are very nice....or you could do a solar hybrid heat pump and get AC with it.
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ICC
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# Posted: 2 Oct 2024 14:04
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Quoting: Brettny Martin direct vent heaters
Will the Martin work without any power? If they do that makes them doubly attractive for off grid use.
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mikesova
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# Posted: 4 Oct 2024 17:46
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I think I'm going to work on doing some insulating on the walls this weekend. I'm just going to do r-13 rolled fiberglass insulation. What should I be thinking about for the ceiling?
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mikesova
Member
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2024 18:42
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It’s going good!
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mikesova
Member
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2024 18:48
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This is the ceiling. I have a ridge vent. Can I use wider fiberglass batts for this or should I be using foam board? Q
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2024 21:09
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Quoting: mikesova (not really leaving an attic space
Does that mean you intend to insulate between the rafters and fasten the interior finish ceiling to the underside of the rafters? The 2x4 rafters do not provide sufficient space for adequate insulation in a north MI climate. Not to mention the issues of providing ventilation space against the underside of the roof sheathing. You have stated you have a ridge vent. Are there inlet vents at the lower end of the rafters (at the wall top).
Foamed in place insulation and sealing the ridge may be better. However, that would still fall short of best practise R-value.
Insulating a roof such as this often involves compromises with something ending up being short changed. My opinion.
Is there any requirement to meet state building and/or energy codes?
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mikesova
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 01:37
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Yes, that’s what I’d like to do. This is a small shed that will probably not see much use in the winter. I’m ok with not having the absolute best r value, I am mainly worried about moisture issues due to seeing other posts about it, but not completely understanding the causes.
The ridge line vent seems to be vented out the steel roof covering.
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ICC
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 03:14
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Quoting: mikesova The ridge line vent seems to be vented out the steel roof covering.
Yes, that is more or less normal practise. Normal practise also includes soffit keve) bents and an air path from lower vent to ridge vent, behind batt type insulation. That vent space should be an inch which would leave only 2-1/2" of insulation space.
It would be inadvisable to use the same full depth batts that you used in the walls in the roof, as most likely room air and water vapor could and would find its way to the cold skin of the roof sheathing and condense. That depends on the humidity level in the room. Cooking, bathing and unvented heaters can all add humidity. Just breathing can too as can whatever the weather is doing.
You might be able to cut XPS foam panels and fit them inside the rafter mays. Seal the edges with foam in a can. The idea would be to keep moisture laden air from getting behind the sheets to condense on the cold roof sheathing. It is even possible that a MI winter might be cold enough to allow condensation to form on the underside of the foam insulation. I can't say for certain. Closed cell foam like XPS would likely be superior to batt insulation though.
If you limit use to the warmer periods of winter you may be okay.
Watch what you select to use for heating. A non vented propane heater is a poor choice as burning propane produces water vapor, which may create a moisture condensation problem.
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mikesova
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 10:36
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I don’t think much cooking will be happening inside, no bathing, and probably just an electric space heater here and there. It’s just a place where we’d sleep and hang out in poor weather when at our property.
I was thinking that since the ridge vent is already venting to outside via the corrugated steel, could that be enough to not need to vent to the soffit?
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ICC
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 12:53
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Quoting: mikesova I was thinking that since the ridge vent is already venting to outside via the corrugated steel, could that be enough to not need to vent to the soffit?
In order for air to exit a ridge vent air must be able to enter someplace lower
Unique Roof Ventilation Requirements for Vaulted or Cathedral Ceilings
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mikesova
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 16:34
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I understand what you’re saying. Would the venting from the roof panels be enough to vent the ceiling so I can put the fiberglass batts in?
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ICC
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 18:31
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Metal roofing ribs are primarily there to make the panels siffer and easier, safer to handle. Most peoperly installed such roofs aill have foam rubber insect stop-strips inserted at the eve and upper ends to prevent insect access and nesting.
The rib channels are on the exterior side of the sheathing and can do nothing to vent interior water vapor moisture to the exterior. The moisture in the interior can be the problem.
If you install 3.5" thick insulation between the rafters there will be zero airflow even if soffit vents were present. Hoe er it is possible that moisture laden air could infiltrate the batt insulation and condense on cold roof sheathing. You would need a perfect vapor barrier installed on the warm interior side of the insulation. That is hard to achieve, which is one of the reasons roofs should have ventilation that works.
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mikesova
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 20:24
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Well I just shone a flashlight from the eave and saw the light in the building on the ridge cap. It’s clear through.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 20:28
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I'll take a guess at what you may have there.
Knowing what you have is a good start.
The metal roofing may or may not have a 'membrane' (even tarpaper) under it. It should, but.....
The raised ribs/channels have no insect barrier but flow right up to the roof ridge vent. You might be able to shine a light inside at the ridge vent and peak up some ribs outside to see.
And/or ask the builder?
I can verify that moisture WILL find its way into batts up there; our old shack was poorly built by the prev owner and when we tore it down it was a mess up there. Above the ceiling planks was faced f-glass right up to the roof deck, metal on top. Pls don't do it that way.
We had considered getting a larger prebuilt than yours with a similar roof build. If we had I would have made a high ceiling (so a small 'attic') with lots of insulation.
The short angled eve sides would have been fairly easy to fit in styro then ceiling of choice. We like the exposed beam look so I would have fabbed up some fake ones.
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ICC
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 21:36
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Quoting: mikesova Well I just shone a flashlight from the eave and saw the light in the building on the ridge cap. It’s clear through.
On a shed roof that is common. Not that big a deal.
gcrank1 wondered if there was building felt (tarpaper) or a synthetic roofing membrane under the metal. Is there? looking up the raised rib as you did should make it possible to verify.
Quoting: gcrank1 We had considered getting a larger prebuilt than yours with a similar roof build. If we had I would have made a high ceiling (so a small 'attic') with lots of insulation.
That would have been the best path to follow, IMO.
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mikesova
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 21:45
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Ok, so I’m rethinking. Put in some more cross members and have a more traditional attic space above a more flat ceiling… still will need to put some screen over the ridge vent to keep bugs out. If I do that AND put in some soffit vents, will I be good then?
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2024 23:33 - Edited by: gcrank1
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You don't really have any soffit to put a vent in if like my toolshed. The outer soffit looking piece is just a trim, it has no access/breathing up into the rafter bays. Id have to cut some kind of opening into it from inside to make it work.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2024 00:17 - Edited by: ICC
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EDITED:
It appears there may be sufficient room for a soffit vent in this image... (As long as there is an air path from the strip into the rafter bays.)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54035410216_9050413963_c.jpg
It would need to be insect screened, one per rafter bay.
Too bad the manufacturer did not screen the ridge before finishing the roof. Perhaps you can staple a strip of metal window screen (1/8" minimum opening size) over the ridge vent gap from the inside? Ot if the ridge cap is screwed on, remove it and install screen from the top. Whatever works. I recommend metal screen but that is because I am in an area that is highly prone to wildfires.
The problem may be insulating that first part of the rafter space up to where the horizontal cross ties start and keeping an air space.
Or install rafter ties across the top of the wall studs for a dropped ceiling and making do with a 7 foot ceiling height. That is not quite code for a habitable space (7'6" = code) & may seem too low once inside, depending on your height.
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mikesova
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2024 13:20
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Still considering using 1" - 1.5" foam board in between the rafters to keep good air flow to soffits and installing some soffit vents and having more open ceiling.
Or
add in a few more supports across the trusses that don't have them and do a more flat ceiling and add soffit vents.
either way, I'll be stapling up some window screen over the ridge vent.
I know my wife would prefer the open ceiling.
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