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optimistic
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# Posted: 8 May 2020 08:36pm
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A long time ago, when I just started this cabin quest, I learned about a "gray zone" trick - building 144 sqft wihtout a permit and using it as a cabin.
Is it no longer the case in NY anyway?
I even read about specific language about no travel trailers parks on vacant land?
Wow
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ICC
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# Posted: 8 May 2020 09:14pm
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Quoting: optimistic I even read about specific language about no travel trailers parks on vacant land?
That is a zoning item. Zoning can be widely different in different areas. Building code does not address trailers. Both zoning and building code can be strictly enforced or very lax. Depends on a whim at times, or at least seems so at times.
The nnn sq ft, no permit rule, most often exists to allow one to build a shed for storage or a playhouse and only as an accessory building to an already built and permitted residence. Size can range from 100 to 200 sq. ft. Again that is a zoning type of issue just like setback distances from property lines.
Once the structure begins to be used for sleeping most often all sorts of rules that are covered by building permits kick in. Some people manage to get away with a non-permitted small shed/cabin and some do not. Depends.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 9 May 2020 06:21am
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I guess that shoots your tow in a trailer theory all to hell? You need to call the town/county and ask questions. This should be done prior to even putting an offer in.
Our town has the 144sqft rule at both our property and our full time home. This is why we have a 10x14 shed.
Also I believe they want a permit and drawing just so they can charge you a bit more on taxes..not so they can ban you from getting a decent size shed.
What town/county are you looking in in NY?
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optimistic
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# Posted: 9 May 2020 07:51am
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Brettny - "I guess that shoots your tow in a trailer theory all to hell?"
It would but I re-read code and it says the opposite - you are not allowed to use a trailer as a shed and not allowed to use a shed as a sleeping place so I am good on trailer and not good on shed.
"Also I believe they want a permit and drawing just so they can charge you a bit more on taxes..not so they can ban you from getting a decent size shed."
That is the whole thing here. Maybe it is better to do what I want then if shit hits the fan - play dumb and offer them what they want - taxes.
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LittleDummerBoy
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# Posted: 9 May 2020 10:22am
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When I built my cabin, I told the locals I was building a tool shed. They all rolled their eyes and went along with it. My land isn't posted, my cabin isn't locked, all the neighbors know what's up.
Never had a complaint in about 18 years, They all keep a neighborly eye on the place for me.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 9 May 2020 01:09pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: optimistic A long time ago, when I just started this cabin quest, I learned about a "gray zone" trick - building 144 sqft wihtout a permit and using it as a cabin. Is it no longer the case in NY anyway?
No cabin for habitation can be built without a permit, build a storage unit instead.
Where my home and cabin is, we are allowed 200 sq feet sheds, so most go 12X16. But it can not have a permanent foundation.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 9 May 2020 02:13pm
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How/if you break the code laws is only something you can awnser. But at very minimum you should know them. Have you called the local building department? Asking questions isn't against the law.
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optimistic
Member
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# Posted: 9 May 2020 04:09pm
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Brettny - you mean about the trailer or the cabin?
btw... there are rumors that they are now flying drones to catch additions/decks/sheds/cabins that were not approved.
These small towns are just hungry for money.
I'm counting on my neighbors to shoot down any drone over their land haha. I would do that if I owned a gun.
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 9 May 2020 07:31pm
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My town has 196 sq feet accessory building limit but the county has a separate rule of 144 sq feet that I don't need a permit, but it can't be used for sleeping. I got the permits because my original cabin was 200 sq feet, the town inspected with no problems and I thought that was that. A year later I get a call from county and they want to come in and inspect the place, I since added another 160 sq feet to the cabin, the lady on the phone told me to stop working blah blah blah. Little did she know I was finished already. So the inspector came, lucky me he was a decent guy and I told him I use the cabin as a hunting camp which you are allowed to as far as I know in NY. He said he doesn't care and that he liked the place very much and told me not to worry about anything and that the place reminded him of his youth in hunting camps. I guess I was lucky. So far 2 years passed and no extra taxes. I'm in Otsego County NY.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 10 May 2020 10:00am
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Quoting: optimistic btw... there are rumors that they are now flying drones to catch
If we are talking about in the APA I could see that. What town or county are we talking about?
The APA is nothing to mess with.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 10 May 2020 11:11am
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Tolke - that is a wonderful story. It's just like ICC said above - some get lucky. You did and it's great. I love hearing about inspectors who get that this is silly and just let you be and not go on some ego trip
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 10 May 2020 01:11pm
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Quoting: optimistic Tolke - that is a wonderful story. It's just like ICC said above - some get lucky. You did and it's great. I love hearing about inspectors who get that this is silly and just let you be and not go on some ego trip
I think its an inspector that is just another one of us. Some are power hungry and like to make you squirm. Its nice to see "just another Joe" on the inspection. Hey, if it met code, wont collapse on you, they can asses the tax, its a win win for both parties.
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optimistic
Member
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# Posted: 10 May 2020 01:13pm
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Exactly toyota.
It is pure ego and silliness for the town to fight lot owners who have what a 12x12 shed????
inspect it, charge some extra property tax, and bye... so annoying that some are annoying.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2020 06:24am
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Have you called your local building dept yet? This is all speculation until you find out.
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woodspirit
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2022 11:22am
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I just talked to zoning in prattsburgh. Can't build a cabin in ny unless you have stamped engineers drawings first. Have to comply with all zoning for building a house. Engineered septic system, perk test, a well, and all zoning that meets building a house. Fire and electric and plumbing. Which also requires electric to grid. Must be wet plummed. In essence in ny state you can't build anything off-grid. No tiny house on wheels to live in. Only sheds and houses.
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woodspirit
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2022 11:25am
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Can't anymore, anywhere in ny. 144 sq feet but can't have electric plumbing or heat and can't live in it.
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snobdds
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2022 05:28pm
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Is NY trying to run people off?
I just built my place without even a second thought about codes or permits. Called the county to tell them I put up a structure and gave them the size. They gave me what I own on taxes for the remainder of the year, paid it then and that was that. They finally came out this past year to check, left a note that they were there. The size must have matched what I gave them as my taxes never went up.
Thank god Wyoming is what the US use to be like.
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geobuild
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2022 07:00pm
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I'm in the process of finishing a "Hunting And Fishing Cabin" in the Adirondack Park. 500 sq ft max, no permanent foundation, completely off-grid, composting toilet, gray-water system, solar. Was straightforward deaing with AP Agency, very easy getting building permit (Franklin Co).
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2022 07:17pm
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Interesting read, and suits our place well, but we arent there. I'll have to go looking for similar here.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2022 08:05pm
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Quoting: woodspirit I just talked to zoning in prattsburgh. Can't build a cabin in ny unless you have stamped engineers drawings first. Have to comply with all zoning for building a house. Engineered septic system, perk test, a well, and all zoning that meets building a house. Fire and electric and plumbing. Which also requires electric to grid. Must be wet plummed. In essence in ny state you can't build anything off-grid. No tiny house on wheels to live in. Only sheds and houses.
That's not true. I believe your only talking about the town of Plattsburgh? Different towns in NY require different permits, zoning, and may not even require a septic or well. Ours dosnt need stapped plans, you can use rough cut lumber, no septic or well needed. You need to contact the town your looking to build in prior to even spending your time going to see a piece of land.
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Irrigation Guy
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2022 08:21pm
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Mine is in NY and my building Dept had no issue with my 14x36 “hunting cabin†just can’t have electric or water  .
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jsahara24
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2022 09:12am
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Our town in NY doesn't require engineered drawings for anything less than 1500 SF. Definitely doesn't require electric, septic or well.
I think you are dealing with a local ordinance and not a statewide situation.
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2022 10:03am
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So has anyone here ever went to your local, county n state legislators n petition them to change the over restrictive codes ? This is just more government trying to protect you from yourself. Or from having to see someone who doesn't have the perfect yard. Heaven forbid you just want to teach your kids how to work on a car or truck. Or the neighbors having to see such didpickable things.
This is your home, your government. Has anyone tried to even talk to your local politicians about this ?
This is one of the main reasons I live in the bush
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ICC
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2022 03:02pm
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Quoting: Aklogcabin So has anyone here ever went to your local, county n state legislators...
Quoting: Aklogcabin Has anyone tried to even talk to your local politicians...
For decades now, since the early 80's I read the minutes of both the meetings of the nearby town council as well as those from the county commission meetings. I read the agenda for upcoming meetings. When I feel the need I go to the meetings. I have spoken out at most of the meetings I took the time to attend. That was why I'd take the time to be there. I used to write a lot of letters and use USPS to mail them in. Now I mostly use email to express my thoughts and opinions. Sometimes I telephone.
In the 90's I was one of "them". County commission; ran once, elected once. I learned a lot about people and governing.
Nothing that is ever done will make everyone happy. Anybody assessing a particular situation could have differing opinions. Meetings are there to hear and sort the opinions out. If nothing was done or rules were all removed there would be dissenters.
Even a rule I proposed that would make it easier and sometimes free for any resident to dispose of trash at the landfill brought complaints from several people.
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