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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2019 01:49pm - Edited by: OttawaJohn
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I am a 48 year old guy on Permanent ODSP (Disability) (Mental Not Physical) People can judge but it is what is is sadly and I already feel guilty about being on it but it had to be and professionals diagnosed etc.. so here I am on a monthly life-time income of 1072/month.
Now, having said all that, I also am divorced and during the divorce my ex-wife offered me half of her pension to help me get a good start in life. (totally voluntarily as it was an uncontested divorce and peaceful etc)
So I ended up with some money. I have about $57,000 tied up in stocks in a locked-in retirement savings plan.
So now to the actual discussion/question.
Since most municipalites have the rediculous requirement to force you to have a primary "home" on your residential land before they allow you to but a tiny home or trailer home on it...
Is it possible for a person to buy a chunk of land for (yes I have seen them) $10,000 - $15,000 and to build a permanent tiny home (to meet code / plumbing/ out house (class 1 sewage) / grey water holding tanks etc / and municipally approved small house to code (does not have to look pretty.. I really don't care how it looks.. but needs to be permanently livable ... all for under $40,000 dollars?
I just want to know I have a safe place to live since I have always been unstable (I have lived in over 45 places in my whole life) and I just want to have a land can call my own.
I had also thought of digging a hole underground with no 'construction' but I feel any town would not 'allow' me to do this..
I just want to feel I have stability for once... with most rents being as high as they are.. it is almost impossible to live on ODSP in any city etc and I have no car, license but am fit enough to spend the summer stocking up on food from nearby towns (can ride an E-bike many miles to gather food for the winter (rice potatoes etc)
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Brettny
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2019 02:24pm
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So your plan is to bike all your supplys in to build, improve the land, live and survive winter with no re stocking?
I think its prety far fetched to do this all to code for 40k much less the bike, no license and no car thing.
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qbodsyt
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2019 03:33pm
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OttawaJohn, I am sorry to hear about your situation. I am from Ontario originally though I now live in Quebec. My grandfather has a cottage in Muskoka and we still travel from Montreal to it in the warm months. There are several towns between Ottawa and Algonquin Park that have affordable real estate. Here is a for instance in Madawaska, which we pass through on our trips, it seems like a pleasant town:
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/21217125/2-0-bedroom-single-family-house-37-dawson -road-madawaska-madawaska?
If your health problems are not so severe that you need to be close to a large hospital, a place like this would still give you access to decent care and support while at the same time allowing you to own your own home and have a decent little property in a largely forested and lovely part of Ontario. From Madawaska it is about 1.5 hours drive to Huntsville which has a well regarded hospital and you're about 2.5 hours drive to Ottawa.
A property like this might require maintenance but if you have no mortgage due to being able to buy it outright, I imagine it would prove less expensive than buying land, paying for permits and required expert work like septic, hydro, plumbing and electrical....plus the greater assurance that someone would be able to come to your aid in a community rather than on isolated land should you have a medical emergency.
I do hope you find a solution that gives you both stability and satisfaction.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2019 03:36pm
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Buy a chunk of land, have a park model put in. Done. There is places that will allow a tiny home, its not always a large home first. Its green and this is the trend. You have to look.
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2019 04:19pm
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First to Brettny: Thanks for the reply.. I did forget to tell you that a guy from BunkyLife website delivers the whole tiny house kit to you. I think the house kit was for the basic non-loft version almost $5000 plus delivery is 300 or 500? But that was within a 3hr range from Toronto. Extra for farther so I assume an extra 500 or so to deliver it to the place I find.. I of course would not be able to do all that stuff by bike lol.. I just was referring to slowly stock piling each summer lots of rice and potatoes etc and canned food for the winter.. and be close enough to a town that I can walk (I have lots of experience walking.. I usually walk 2hrs a walk no problem one way.. so as long as there is a town in a 1 - 2hr walking distance it is possible to get dressed warm to head into town in the winter on the not so horrible days..
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ICC
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2019 05:24pm
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Is this it??? https://bunkielife.com/product/bunkie-life-2019-model-ontario-cabin-kit/
You would freeze to death in a Canadian winter, or go broke trying to keep it warm. Walls are 1-5/8" thick wood, no insulation. That would not meet anybody's code for a residence.
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2019 06:01pm
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Yes this I am aware of. In his videos he said he uses an electric heater to keep it warm and obviously not during a minus 30 celcius, week long cold snaps ...so there has been talk in his videos of him investigating insulation etc this I am very much aware .. With more Canadians demanding more and more for all season in these places he is going to develop some system in time I am sure. For now he orders these kits from elsewhere so we will have towait and see.There are options ... People goice fishing in various solutions so I am sure he will develop something in time. But thank you for thereplies on an obviously serious issue to consoder ... It is early days in this Tiny Home industry yet. 
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Princelake
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2019 06:06pm
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If I was you I'd move to a small town like wawa get your self a mobile home or small home. Grocery store and hospital right there. Thousands of miles of bush all around it.
Most cities and towns won't allow tiny homes. By the time you find a piece of property cheap enough in an unorganized township you'll be to far from civilization without a car/truck
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2019 06:18pm
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To Qbodsyt
I want to say thank you very much for your kind and well thought out message ... I know on internet forums people may think I am kidding or what not but I am not.. I am honestly just seeking ideas and serious conversation etc and I appreciate your time with this.
I have looked at realtor.ca quite a lot the last month or so. Obsessively actually lol. I remember seeing that particular lot as well. It really is a great one. I actually saw places north of Sudbury as well quite a ways which were selling for crazy prices like 11-15,000 bucks house and land.. however I think those are pretty extreme far north for me.. I have also seen land for sale for 10,000 around Algoma Mills etc.. they are vacant lands right now however so I could not buy a tiny house and have it delivered as they will not allow you to habitate in a house that does not have plumbing and electricity etc. ...
But anyhow. Back to that particular lot.. it does look awesome.. I have to wait a while since you are only allowed to access your locked in retirement savings plan under "financial hardship rules" once every 12 months .. my next opportunity will be january 2020 ... they limit you to taking out under those rules, for 2019 the limit is maxed out at $28,700. So for getting enough money together first.. I would have to for example, in 2019 say, take out in a maximum legislated of $28,700 from the LIRA, of which they will withold 30% income tax... leaving me to only be able to take out in cash ... $20,090. I would then be able to use that to buy an acer or two of land at say 12-15,000 bucks.
Then wait a year, and go back in to get the money for the tiny house with next year's legislated maximum allowed amount of probably say $29,000 (goes up each year type thing) minus 30% withholding of income tax) leaving me able to get $20,300
I could use the $20,300 to purchase a $5,000+ cabin kit, plus up to $1,000 in delivery charges, and have it delivered to the land. All you need to assemble these huts are mallets, hammers, and screwdrivers/electric drills .. and you choose the roof type (i would probably get metal roof finish as this would allow for rainwater collection in summer etc. for bathing (just face cloth and water basin) not actually showering of course unless I did that via some hanging shower bag device ... these survival type things are not un-doable for someone who has lived in poverty his whole life and who knows about being homeless.. there are always ways to keep clean. I am not worried about modern conveniences so much ... I have also lived in rooms my whole life (sometimes I have been fortunate at times to have my own apartment, or a whole home) but rooms are very familiar to me and very minimallist life.
Once you have a place to live, there are other affordable options for luxuries like showers at workout Gyms like fit-4-less where you pay 200 bucks a year for a membership. You get to work out.. stay in shape (or get in shape) all the while getting free showers
As for food.. when you have lived in poverty most of your life.. as I have.. I am very used to living on foods like rice. Potatoes, Mr Noodles, bananas, and canned foods which you can cook over an extremely efficient little rocket stove or twig stove etc. In winter you always have an abundant supply of cooking water in the form of snow
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2019 06:24pm - Edited by: OttawaJohn
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Hi Princelake! Thank you.. I had looked at a town up there .. it was called Chapleau.. this listing actually
It has lots of land.. I get a whole house, two sheds, and lots of property to build a tiny home on as well. ;) I do see that place as a very very possible option.. just at this time... I am 'hoping' to find something a little closer to home like above Kingson in the "Central Frontenac" Hiway 7 area.. I did see one chunk of land there going for $12,000 and the realtor got an offer already so he mentioned there is another not far from it for around the same amount etc.. so I am patiently waiting.. planning. . researching.. all from my basement rented room for now ;)
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/20802812/3-bedroom-single-family-house-97-aberdeen -street-chapleau
$15,000 Dollar Home/land. The place is rough .. but it acts as a legal requirement of a primary house on the land therefore allowing me to then build a tiny 10x10 without worrying about code.. and if things get too cold.. I can go into the house ;)
However, I will investigate Wawa more.. sounds like Wawa may have better resources for shopping etc than Chapleau. The town of Chaplea has a mine opened up nearby and this will attract many jobs.. a gold mine from a big gold company and it just started production of gold.. so their town my start to grow as jobs open up in mining!
I could buy that place.. pay no mortgage at all.. and only pay utilities and taxes of less than 100 / month so overall maybe 4-500 a month in bills for Internet, cell, hydro, propane, food etc. The disability would cover that..
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Brettny
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2019 09:33am
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You are focusing on this 5,000 cabin being a complete ready to go kit. Many arnt, many are missing pieces and are basicly a shed kit. If you have no building knowledge do not buy a kit. Learn and buy a set of plans. A kit will not save you much money nor gain you any less aggravation.
If your going to have anything resembling a "kit" dropped off why not just have a completly built shed dropped off?
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2019 10:34am
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For me it is a money thing. I only have enough money to buy a small plot of land and a kit is $6,000 bucks.. anything else is probably going to cost more than I can afford. I have a max of up to $40,000 very top end maximum to spent including all services, hookups, etc.. so it is probably impossible to go with anything other than the non-code requirements of the 10x10 kit unfortunatley.
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razmichael
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2019 11:40am
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Kits can seem like a good deal but remember that someone has purchased the lumber, cut and put together the kit then added on profit. DIY for a 10x10 is not really difficult (although some basic knowledge is needed) and you need some tools (that you will likely need anyway to complete the kit and future projects). DIY will also allow, if needed, some flexibility in paying for bits as you can, i.e. build in phases. It also allows you to shop around for things like windows to get what you want, (including used items), not just what comes with the kit.
Again, you need to have some basic carpentry skill or do some homework but it is not that hard and there are loads of sites to help when talking about basic, standard construction. I would suspect the more costly part of this is preparing the base/foundation/piers depending on your choice.
Just my opinion - I do understand the ease of buying a kit.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2019 01:11pm
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$6k for a un insulated 10x10 shed...that you still have to put together.. you really should check into having one built by a local company first. They may even beable to spray foam it at there site before delivery.
In May i bought a 10x14in with 8ft walls, real wood siding, 4 6x6 PT runners for $3700 delivered. It was built localy and delivered to the site in one piece. I slept in it 5hrs aftet it was delivered. With over $2k left for insulation and interior finishes i thats more than adequate. I actualy put a wood stove in it and insulsted the ceiling alreaty. That cost about $400.
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RLamoureux
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2019 01:53pm
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OttawaJohn,
Between Habitat for humanity Re-Store and kijiji I found lots of used windows, doors, cabinets, etc.. for next to nothing to build my cabins with.
As for permit and allowing small cabins it will depend on the municipality. They make their own by-laws and rules. The more out of town (say northern Ontario disorganized townships) you go, the less rules you have.
Good Luck!
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fitzpatt
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2019 02:04pm - Edited by: fitzpatt
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Quoting: RLamoureux Between Habitat for humanity Re-Store
+ 1 for Re-Store. Great place to find material, particularly windows and hardware. There are many stores with continuously renewed stock
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Nightskyryder
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2019 02:46pm
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Don’t buy a kit. They are marked up and cheap, cheap,cheap
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2019 03:00pm
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You all are very helpful thank you so much. I also like the local company with delivery idea! Especially since I do not have a car/licence so the delivery is what works for me.
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Princelake
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2019 05:39pm
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Wawa is a big mining area with wesdome up the highway and Alamos mine in dubreville and ppl drive back and forth prices have gone up in the last few years. And chapleau a mine did just open there. Also there's Elliot Lake look around there.
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2019 06:31pm
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Thanks very much..
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2019 10:41am - Edited by: bill_bly_ca
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John, the issue seems to be residency - Almost everything I have looked at south of Sudbury/Northbay (Save for some of the unincorporated portions of Perry sound area) you can only have a seasonal residence on the sub 10K pieces of land (Think includes almost all of the eastern 1/2 of Manitoulin on my other thread you commented on).
Once you start to head into Northern Ontario there are a fair amount of areas, in unincorporated parts of Ontario, you can find plots in the 5/6/7K range where you can actually "reside"
There is one place in Wawa I came across in my search in town for $19,200 - Detached house on a lot - Extremely rough for sure - But a city lot with a somewhat salvageable structure. There also have been townhouses I have seen in Elliot Lake for $22isk K as well.
But the real issue is that the municipal codes south of the Suds are stacked towards 1200 sq foot minimums for builds on residential lots.
Here is a condo in Elliot for the 30's ... https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Home-For-Sale/ON/Elliot-Lake/11-115-Hillside-Dr-N/7444 0213.html
But all in all, all areas south of Sudbury is looking to get you into the 200K plus housing treadmill.
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2019 10:59am - Edited by: OttawaJohn
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We need more people advocating as teams with cities councils to change bylaws to create new zones or modify existing zones to allow for "tiny homes as primary homes"
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2019 11:14am - Edited by: Steve_S
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I replied to you in another thread on this but I'll add a note on "kits". I built my place, my own design - self built (an owner can self-design & self-build in Ontario btw). I built a 500sq foot cabin, you can follow some of it here: http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/6_5643_0.html although I stopped updating the thread, which I will revisit this winter when I have time.
In Hindsight with the Lessons Learned chapters closed, there was an option I discarded which was foolish in the end. My place is 20x24, essentially the same footprint as a 2 car garage, with a loft. It would have likely cheaper to buy a "Garage Kit" from say Home Hardware and instead of installing Garage Doors, to install a large French Door in one hole and a picture window or two smaller windows in the other hole. Some are 2x4 based but most are 2x6 and can be converted with little difficulty.
Home Hardware Garage Packages:
https://www.homehardware.ca/en/solar/c/7228
You are still looking at a fairly heavy chunk of change by the time you add it up and then add in insulation and finishing materials, it doesn't take long.
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2019 11:29am
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I am one of those guys who will spend hours lpoking for a manual to operate a regular mallet lol.
Joking aside it is about life and survival for me so I will learn. I will go look at those kits too thank you. Do they comply with building code?
That part is so confusing to me.. Not knowing what a city will allow you to live in etc amd the coosts involved. I only have like 50 grand but after taxes and limited allowed withdrawals at a time of 28,700 it means I will only have 21 grand in cash the first year ... So I could never meet code costs probably for plumbing sewage and well etc
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2019 01:19pm
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Even when you build on unincorporated townships it must be to Ontario building code... Or so I have read.
And most say (aside from well water) the septic is headache #2 (Pun intended) as septic falls under environmental laws not just municipal.
Steve_S - The issue with the HH kits is that the trusses are engineered so you would have lost the loft.. Or would have to have redone the trusses and probably lost the economy there.
Way back when they were Beaver Lumber (HH bought out Beaver and only the Kit houses remain in the HH catalog) we were toying with that for our first place - But that was 30 yrs ago..
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2019 01:56pm - Edited by: OttawaJohn
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I dont need a loft really I can just put in what is called a loft bed. It is a metal bunk bed...without thebottom bunk so you can put a couch or table n chairs n tv under it
All my crazy typos are because of using a tiny cell phone screen to write sorry lol
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OttawaJohn
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2019 01:59pm
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As for septic you can create an earth put to code
Class 1 or Outhouse or two if gonna live there permanently with extreme low budget and no income other than 600+ per month from disability
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2019 03:53pm
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For links with searches - I have been using the following..
https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Real-Estate-Listings/ON/Northern-Ontario.html
They seem to have a convenient search for all of Northern Ontario - But do not use the email contact by form, it is a black hole - Call or text always seems to get some sort of reply
https://www.recreationland.net/
They do have a segregated portion with unincorporated listings. It was quite active 18 months ago, it seems to slowed down as of late.
https://www.wuerch.com/
8 to 10 yrs ago this one was loaded with listings - I had worked with a fellow who was an acquaintance of the first owner - Looks like the first owner sold it off and the second owner was quite ambitious, again their listings have dropped quickly..
https://northlandretreats.com/
This fellow is based in Toronto and had a bevy of listings from 2007 to 1015 - I kinda fell off his list and had to scour my bookmark archive to find it. Now it looks like there is only one active listing. IIRC I thought he was winding down his business about then (2015) and that is why he was off my radar. He did have a plot up by Ramore back in 2007 which was the first one I went to look at, until focus changed to Nicaragua, and now back to Northern Ontario.
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2019 04:06pm
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Buy a chunk of land, have a park model put in. Done. There is places that will allow a tiny home, its not always a large home first. Its green and this is the trend. You have to look.
This one is a short term saving. We have a 32foot TT in a park in southern Ontario. In the park, there are als a lot of "Park Model" trailers. They have a 8 to 10-year trouble-free initial life and then go downhill fast. Roof membrane failures - Plastic plumbing failures- OSB failures from condensation wicking (they do not employ vapour barriers) and the list goes on and on -
Then there is the issues with plumbing and winter - Most of the plumbing is too close to the outsides for an ontario Winter
Lastly is heat - Our park allows people to visit over the winter. People who stay the weekends over Jan and Feb easily go through a 100lb propane tank in 4 weekends (about a week total of use) that would kill any budget...
What you could get for $20ishK as a park model you would be buying a full time hobby, not a shelter...
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Brettny
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# Posted: 19 Oct 2019 08:15am
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I think most of the propertys that hit major realty websites are at the top end of the price per acre. At least here they are. I found ours on craigslist. Listed for sale was lot #3. Well i didnt know before calling that there was 6 other lots available and no one looked at any of them. At this point it was early December and ready to snow any day. We high tailed it up there the same week. Looked around with 1in of snow on the ground and in a few days it started snowing so i knew no one else was going up there to see the land. We threw a low offer in and waited. We had the time and knew no one else was walking in in the snow to see. We bought the lot we wanted in may and walked in in knee deep snow.
Point is its going to be work to find a good property at a low price that someone didnt alreaty buy.
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