|
| Author |
Message |
george415
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Jul 2019 11:24am
Reply
Hello All
I have some acres zoned to allow a hunt camp of 1000sq ft on the muskoka area but my property is behind a rail line ....
Worried that if I submit a building permit application they will ask how I intend to access the property
Any thoughts ?
|
|
toyota_mdt_tech
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Jul 2019 03:12pm
Reply
Certainly you have some legal access to your own land, usually chunks land locked will have some sort of easement.
|
|
ICC
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Jul 2019 03:34pm
Reply
Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Certainly you have some legal access to your own land, usually chunks land locked will have some sort of easement.
Poor assumption. In the NF area close to me a person bought some acreage many years ago and back then the system was kinda sloppy. He found he has no legal right to access his property except over some neighboring private land ( not through the NF), and the recorded deeds have no mention of any access.
Quoting: george415 Worried that if I submit a building permit application they will ask how I intend to access the property
Does the recorded info at the county clerk make any mention of access? For the past 15 years or so my county has been careful to insist that needed access be noted in their records, and noted by a survey. But older parcels sometimes have flaws as noted above. To cross a rail line you may need special permission.
I see you are in Canada. I'm in the US, so how things are done may be different.
|
|
Rory
Member
|
# Posted: 4 Jul 2019 05:21pm
Reply
George I’m no expert but I’m in Ontario and I also bought property that is blocked off by a rail line. Unfortunately, If there is no road leading to the property they likely won’t issue you a build permit period. If there is a private access road along the rail line that does reach your property your best bet will probably be to get permission to use the road from the rail company before applying for any permit. Unfortunately If it’s an organized township without road access you don’t have a lot of options.
|
|
Houska
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Jul 2019 11:05am - Edited by: Houska
Reply
I'm behind a railway line, in Ontario.
There are 2 dimensions to this.
First, building permits. This varies by jurisdiction. Generally, in Ontario, to build even a seasonal *residence* you need to be adjacent to a public road, or be able to demonstrate you have right of access via a private road over registered rights of way (easements) and/or with access agreements (e.g. township road allowances, railway crossings, etc.) over others' property. In some jurisdictions, those conditions are relaxed for *hunt camps* but you typically in some way still need some form of documented right of way.
Second, private railway crossings (which is what you may need) in Canada are governed by the Canadian Transportation Act, and with the Canadian Transportation Agency stepping in formally or informally when landowners can't agree with the rail company. Rail companies don't like private crossings for safety reasons.
Fortunately, section 103 of the CTA provides a framework how a landowner adjacent to a rail line can require the rail company to allow a private crossing if it is necessary for access to the land. Unfortunately, the costs of establishing and maintaining the crossing are borne by the landowner, and can range from a few hundred $ for a simple farm crossing over a low-traffic single rail line, to several hundred thousand $ if the combination of vehicular and rail traffic requires signals and/or terrain changes for safety. In addition, the rail company may resist or attempt to negotiate conditions more stringent than they are allowed by the CTA, so it may take a long time to negotiate and/or require going to the CTA tribunal to force a decision. It's a lot easier if the crossing is already established than if you are building a new one.
Your rights are better if s. 102 of the CTA applies (simplified: if the railway bisected someone's land and there is an uninterrupted chain of you and previous owners owning the land on both sides of the railway), in which case the crossing is at the rail company's expense.
As a starting point, see https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/publication/crossings-a-resource-tool and consult your local township what form of access documentation they need for a building permit. Good luck.
|
|
NorthRick
Member
|
# Posted: 12 Jul 2019 03:24pm
Reply
Sounds like you may need a helicopter.
|
|
george415
Member
|
# Posted: 22 Jul 2019 07:16pm
Reply
Thanks all ... very useful
will freestyle it for now with a few small structures in the trees
I'm next to an unopened road allowance so maybe some day the township will develop it
|
|
Houska
Member
|
# Posted: 23 Jul 2019 05:04am
Reply
OK, you're set for now.
In the future, if you want/need to formalize things, the unopened road allowance (URA) may help or hurt.
On the one hand, it can be part of the chain of access you demonstrate (on paper, regardless of how you choose to get there in reality) to prove you have access to the land. Depending on what you want to build and how strict your township is, this can be anything from "yeah, I access via ...", to having to sign a agreement with the township to use the URA (usually free, but you absolve them of liability and agree to not do dumb stuff), to requirements to build a 10"-deep gravel road suitable for emergency vehicles to access ($ prohibitive). If they're fairly lenient though, it's a way to get/demonstrate access at the building permit stage without having to sweet-talk the railway. You do not want to be telling a township building dept that you access your land via an informal railway crossing, since that is technically trespassing.
On the other hand, if you/future owners would need to force the railway to allow you a crossing under s. 103 of the CTA, it weakens your case if the railway really doesn't want to give it to you, since you do have the possibility of other access, via the URA.
Enjoy your property, and while "freestyling it", be super careful of safety while crossing. To avoid a disaster for you and others, of course, but also to avoid a *perceived* safety issue that makes the railway instruct you to stop trespassing, and then when you force them to allow you a crossing through the CTA, have them insist (because of the safety issue) that a fancy crossing with barriers etc is needed. That's $100-250k at your expense.
|
|
|
|
