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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2018 03:46pm - Edited by: turkeyboyslim
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So I live in Florida and for a long time I've been wanting to buy land and construct a small cabin and be closer to nature. My searches have led me to Ontario because an 'Unorganized Township' is a dream come true for someone looking to live remote. I'm planning on loading up my car, and take a long, long road trip up there with all my possessions (I don't have much).
I have saved enough money to support myself and buy a parcel of land, and there are some nice acreage I can see online that are unorganized but of course I want to see it in person, and talk to an realtor.
Basically, my question is what is the best way to live while I'm searching for land? It may seem like a strange question but I don't have much experience with stuff like this, I'm 24 and have lived with my folks in Florida my whole life (though I've been to CA many times).
Should I try to find a short-term lease on a house/apartment or are there other option that i'm simply not aware of. Thank you and advice or opinions will be good, I will not judge.
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ICC
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2018 06:06pm - Edited by: ICC
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Well, if you are going from FL to anywhere in Canada you first need to check if Canada will let you move there. You either need to have money to invest in a business or have a skill they need. A totally different thing compared to moving within the US. There is a website you can check to see if Canada will accept you.
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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2018 10:56pm
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Thanks for your reply, I checked out the website and submitted my information to see if it will work out. My grandfather was born in Ontario, though I'm not sure if that helps my process. I also saw you can't become a citizen or PR until you spend at least 1095 days out of the last 5 years there, so it seemed to me like a strange system where they expect people to just move there without citizenship and if they last long enough they can apply for citizenship? I dunno. I have money that I could say would be Invested in a business but I don't have any actually business plans.
In all honesty I would just buy land, live on it and cut my expenses as low as possible and work a part-time job as needed. I have a good chuck saved up, enough for me to buy land and have extra saved to live off of for a while, though I don't think that's what the immigration firm would want to hear.
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ICC
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 12:13am - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: turkeyboyslim I also saw you can't become a citizen or PR until you spend at least 1095 days out of the last 5 years there, so it seemed to me like a strange system where they expect people to just move there without citizenship and if they last long enough they can apply for citizenship?
That is correct. First you need permission to move and become a legal resident. Then after a period of time, you can apply to become a citizen. Legal permanent residency and citizenship are two different things. You could be given permission to move there, work or not if you can show you are independently wealthy, use Canada's health system, their schools, whatever and never become a citizen of Canada.
Very similar to a Canadian getting permission to be a permanent US resident (green card) and never becoming a US citizen.
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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 12:38am
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I see, thanks for the clarification. I looked at the wealth requirement and if I read it correctly I would not be eligible, I think the amount needed was around 200k CAN. Well for me the first step would be getting permission to move, but I couldn't find any info on the site. What would I be applying for if I wanted permission to move but I don't have specific skills or degree? I'm willing to work of course but I have no degree or specialty, does the disqualify an immigrant like me?
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ICC
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 01:38am
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All I can suggest is to complete the form honestly, submit it and see what they say. However without a large amount to invest, no special skills and no degree, unless you are a member of a persecuted minority you probably won't make the cut. No idea how long they take to respond to the inquiry you made, but I am sure they will reply.
Lots of nice places in Canada, I like the eastern provinces, have friends there. Nice people. Winter is a bit colder than what you have in FL. 
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frankpaige
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 09:26am
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Turkeyboyslim
I know we have our problems. But what is wrong with the USA? Depending on the climate you love to hate, there are plenty of places here where you can live off grid.
Wherever you go. Consider a small trailer/tent to live in while construction is going on. You will be close to building site. You said "small" so it shouldn't take that long to get the shell up.
With enough searching I think you can locate something here w/o authoritative encomberance.
Good Luck
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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 11:20am - Edited by: turkeyboyslim
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Quoting: frankpaige With enough searching I think you can locate something here w/o authoritative encomberance.
I'm mainly attracted to Ontario for the fact that I wouldn't have to worry about building permits for almost anything (only searching for land in unorganized townships). Because I'm not 100% concrete into what/where I will be building things I really feel it gives me the freedom and flexibility to not have to have every little detail planned before I start. I have been searching for land in the US, and contacted Building Dept.s' and so forth but everywhere I've found is far to restrictive to even allow what I want to do. Are you aware of any places here in the US that have as much freedom as an unorganized township?
Thnx.
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fiftyfifty
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 06:57pm
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"Are you aware of any places in the US that have as much freedom as an unorganized township?"
I'm not sure compared to an unorganized township, but in most rural counties in northern and western states, the regulations are very reasonable In my rural county:
1) You can camp on your land in a tent indefinitely without any sort of permit.
2) If you want to live in a trailer/RV etc on your land you need just an RV permit ($150 for the first 2 years, $100 for renewals that last 3 years) plus a one-time waste plan permit (for example outhouse or composting toilet, cost is $100.)
3)To build a permanent structure, you just need to submit a general plan e.g. "I plan to build a 10x16 building about here on the map." There is not a building code beyond that you can't be too close to streams, lakes or property lines. They do "inspect" it when you are done, but only to make sure you didn't build it bigger than you said. If you build it smaller no problem. It can be made out of scraps or whatever. The building permit is $100 for any structure under 600 sq feet. You also need to do the same waste permit as described in #2 above which is another $100.
Seems like minimal red tape to me.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 08:39pm
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Quoting: turkeyboyslim Are you aware of any places here in the US that have as much freedom as an unorganized township?
Hundreds of 'em, depends on where you are. I'm sure every state has plenty of wilderness available....Doesn't seem like you have done much research..?
If building without a permit is your main driver, then you just need to look harder. It's a major PITA becoming a citizen of another country and seems like a monumental waste of time and money to me.
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Rickkrus
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 09:40pm
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There are counties in western states where permitting is minimal or nonexistant. You need to search more.
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Just
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 09:50pm
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I once spent a long weekend on a lake in northern Ontario Canada it was - 40 f with a 40 mph wind blowing the entire weekend . The ice was 36 in . thick. Not for the faint of heart !!! I suggest keeping a retreat in Florida..
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ICC
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 09:57pm - Edited by: ICC
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I did a brief search and saw that in an Ontario Unorganized Township there are no fees for building permits because there is no system in place to issue them or inspect the construction. However, I also found that any building in Ontario is supposed to be built to be in compliance with the building code. But there doesn't seem to be any checking done on that as there are no inspectors. Nutty situation.
Then, some unorganized townships may have some restrictions that require "Letters of Conformity" or "Zoning Conformity Permits". As well there do seem to be septic system permit requirements.
http://www.mah.gov.on.ca/Page2103.aspx
So maybe the biggest thing you avoid is the fee for the building permit and the inspections. Big deal, most places I have been, not counting places like Lake Tahoe, do not have excessive fees for permits IMO.
So what is the biggest attraction to living in an unorganized township?
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Ontario lakeside
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 10:26pm - Edited by: Ontario lakeside
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Northern Ontario is beautiful, I know I have lived all over the province. It is beautiful, but not for the faint of heart. Its rugged, mostly un-farmable. Lakes, swamps and rock barrens.
My advice is come for a visit in the spring, if you can survive the blackflys for couple of weeks in the bush they will grant you citizenship on the spot!
https://www.nfb.ca/film/blackfly/
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ICC
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 10:35pm
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Ah-hah! I know what the "why" in "why move" is!!
October 17.
Cannabis will be legal throughout Canada!
But then the same applies to many US states now.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 10:43pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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Buy the land.
Go up the end of May. Bring a net hat and plenty of insect repellant. There will be black flies until mid June, than the mossies start, than deer flies. By September they should be gone because it's colder. You should have plenty of time to build a very small log cabin before the cold weather and snow set in. Stay in a tent while you build the cabin.
You could buy a bush lot with enough white cedar to build a log cabin.
Put in a good wood burning stove to keep warm.
Make sure it's close enough to a water source.
Hope you don't mind chopping a hole through the ice in the winter to bring up water in buckets.
One thing though. You are not going to be able to get citizenship in Canada. So you are going to be up there illegally. Would that bother you?
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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2018 11:32pm - Edited by: turkeyboyslim
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Yeah I guess I had no idea getting citizenship in Canada was so hard...
I didn't know you needed a specific specialty trade to move to another country. If I'm not able to get permanent residency without a trade I may consider moving there on a study vista and seeing if I can study carpentry and use a degree to help my obtain residency but that seems like a gamble. I find it sad we live in a world where we are not free to go where we please.
Anyways I was unaware that the north-west was so free. In every state I've ventured you have very little option on what you can do on your own land, even if its unrestricted zoning. In FL it's not an option, I was looking in North Carolina and actually spent some time there looking at property and after talking to the building dept. it was very clear you could not do what you want on your land (anywhere in the state) I was in one of the most "unrestricted" county's too (Ashe).
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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 09:02am
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Quoting: Rickkrus There are counties in western states where permitting is minimal or nonexistant. You need to search more.
Can you give me an example of 1 county?
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frankpaige
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 10:32am - Edited by: frankpaige
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Turkeyboyslim
Delta County, Colorado
But, you can locate places above the Artic Circle in Alaska as well. Puerto Rico has sites also. Finding a place is easy as using Dr. Google.
What most people use to determine where they live is not the lack of regulations, but personal preferences. You initially stated "small shack/cabin". There are 50 states you can choose from. But it's on you to do a little investigation
Sorry, ladies/gentlemen
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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 01:24pm - Edited by: turkeyboyslim
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Thank you I will check into Delta County.
Lack of regulations is my personal preference haha. Also there are states that don't allow you to build or live in a shack/cabin unless it meets certain requirements. For example in North Carolina I found lots of rural land (7-10 acre range) that was in an unincorporated township and was in unrestricted zoning. However to build any structure even a cabin, it would have to be a minimum of 600 sq ft, have sewer and electricity hook up, mandatory. If I wanted to have a cabin smaller than 600 sq ft and/or not hookup to utility then I would have to register it as a primitive cabin, and I would not be allowed to have ANY solar panel or electrical systems hooked up to the house, you couldn't even have well dug! You're expected to live really primitive with oil lamps and wood stove and so forth.
Now my personal preference is having a balance and the freedom to make changes as I see fit on my land. This is why i'm posting here to try to see if anyone else can point me in a good direction because I've gotten my hopes up hearing from dr.google "you can do this here and here" and "this state is great for off the grid" and once I'm actually talking to the planning and inspection dept. its a whole 'nother story.
Sorry for the rant, thank's again for your recommendation on Delta, I will check some prices see what it's about.
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meloj
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 03:05pm
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Being a resident of Ontario myself. First off, as many have said, Northern Ontario is amazing, its beautiful, there is lots of available land at reasonable prices and some areas that have limited zoning issues.
However, unlike many states in the US where you should be able to find good value, limited permits the weather is going to be a dogs breakfast.
I am going up this weekend to close up my cabin and I likely wont be back until next April. You have a good 6 months of very cold weather, where we are you will have 2+ feet of snow and temperatures 20 degrees below freezing.
May-July has flies and bugs. Aug and September are really great.
Many of us Ontario cabin folks, use it in the summer months and deal with the bug seasons in short stays. Again, Northern Ontario is really nice but it is very harsh conditions year round.
You could likely buy land and stay on a visiting permit up to six months at a time. Or find a good Canadian girl to marry who shares your dream of living your chosen lifestyle.
It would be a good place to buy a huge plot of land to live off of but it also presents some challenges for you as a US citizen.
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mojo
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 03:15pm - Edited by: mojo
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Check out northern Vermont and Maine.
I almost purchased land in Cabot, VT so I know for a fact there are no building codes there, but I know there are other towns as well.
Similar climate and ecology to Ontario too.
I'm closing on some land in NH tomorrow and the building codes are very basic....there's plenty of plans you could purchase for a few bucks that would pass code.
Just keep in mind that a septic or drilled well will trigger permits in most states however.
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snobdds
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 04:29pm - Edited by: snobdds
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Quoting: turkeyboyslim Can you give me an example of 1 county?
Wyoming. In the towns and cities things get inspected. Where I'm at, nothing. No building codes, no inspections...do as you wish. The only thing they do, and do well, is to make sure they get their tax money. They knew about two weeks after I had the place dried in and wanted to schedule a meeting to assess taxes. Word travels fast in Wyoming.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 04:51pm
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Quoting: turkeyboyslim I find it sad we live in a world where we are not free to go where we please.
Really?
Done with this thread...
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meloj
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 04:58pm
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Looking back you were going to buy an old Tree Farm? What happened with that area you were looking at? Have to think the weather is a little nicer than Norther Ontario
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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 05:25pm
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Quoting: meloj Looking back you were going to buy an old Tree Farm? What happened with that area you were looking at? Have to think the weather is a little nicer than Norther Ontario
Yeah I backed out after I talked to building and planning dept and found out how restrictive the area was.
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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 05:26pm
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Quoting: Borrego Really? Done with this thread...
I'm not sure who's more easily upset, you or me. Lol.
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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 05:27pm
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Quoting: snobdds Wyoming. In the towns and cities things get inspected. Where I'm at, nothing. No building codes, no inspections...do as you wish.
Awesome I will check that out. My only requirements is I have enough trees on the land to fell for firewood and building material, and some privacy and freedom.
Thnx for the input.
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ICC
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 08:32pm
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Curious here.... how big a parcel do you want, or how small would be the smallest size you'd consider? Any preferences for weather?
Like, I love many parts of Canada; in the summer. And I dislike places like AZ in the summer and NY is much too humid in the summer........
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turkeyboyslim
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2018 08:40pm
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I'm thinking I want a minimum of 12 acres but 20-40 would be great. My price range is under $55k. As for weather well I'd like to experience all 4 seasons, I want to try to live in a somewhat cooler environment, I've been in the south my whole life where it's pretty much 1 season the whole year, every year.
So while I know many people dream of living in a warm tropical environment and not shoveling snow. I want to try something different to see what I'm not missing.
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