| << . 1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . >> |
| Author |
Message |
White Eagle
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Oct 2013 01:24pm
Reply
Quoting: PatrickH @White eagle you will likely only welcome people on your land until you are violated or someone sues you for injuring themselves on you property, We where sued because we had a package delivered by a person contracted by Fedex who supposidly fell and broke his ankle on our driveway, no witnesses no proof $60,000 is what he got. So good luck with that!I used to like to think people are generally good,turns out there not.
Since I never owned any land, I recognize my shortcomings pertaining to the topic of what it means to welcome people onto vast stretches of land. Thank you for posting this. I guess this is really an issue of the legal system that is unfortunately too often prone to being taken advantage of, as is clear in your particular example. However, this is an issue of the legal system that is in need of revisions rather than an issue of private ownership of land, water, air, etc.
Quoting: MtnDon Yeah, you're right Truecabin, feeding trolls is like feeding bears in the wild. But I can't help myself with the trolls; at least they can't bite me and do any real harm. I've encountered these arguments before and find them entertaining. Many, maybe most, all ? end up in wanting everything shared equally among all the people. All goods, etc. Doesn't matter how much hard work or how little goes into one's life.
I don't see myself as a troll, albeit some may regard me as such. Believe me, I am not getting any kicks out this. In fact, reading some of these posts saddens me. I also don't want to offend or upset anyone. I'd like to hopefully provide some arguments for people to reflect upon. That is all. I am also not advocating the communist approach at all. I grew up behind the Iron Curtain and saw communism fail for great reasons. I believe capitalism will also fail for similar reasons, but that is outside of the scope of this discussion.
I am also not intending to challenge the value of hard work at all. Without work, there is nothing. Hard work is admirable and should be rewarded. I own a business, employ people, and think of myself as being in more fortunate material circumstances than 90% of the people on this planet. I do, however, intend to challenge certain 'de facto', this-is-how-it-is rules (yes I think challenging is a good thing) that we don't usually reflect on, but that can be seen as violating basic human rights - the right to walk on this Earth, the right to breath oxygen, the right to access to water, etc. When I see laws, trends, or militant capitalistic attitudes that I feel either already threaten or may threaten the future of modern, more humane society, I will challenge them for a debate. Yes, y'all might have not been ready to have this debate, or may be annoyed at it, because you find talking about the nature of "no trespassing" signs more interesting, but I think it's very important to have this public discourse in places within or on the fringes of these topics.
Quoting: MtnDon Anyhow, notice that I asked a question or two. And they were not answered. That too is also typical troll behavior. I perhaps should have placed them in BOLD. But what can be done about that now? "that" being the system of private land ownership that we have in place.
Apologies for not clearly answering your question @MtnDon. I thought I alluded to this question in my previous post. A lot can be done about it now and it starts with an individual self-reflection. Our attitudes towards land ownership can be more humble and less self-entitled, less vast stretches of wild land should be allowed to enter the private hands of "the few" solely for the purpose of "enjoying nature", individual land owners that own lands close to reserves, provincial parks, etc. should recognize that "their land" was once enjoyed by other people, the vast majority of whom respect the land in ways no different than its new owners, placing signs threatening someone's life should be equally illegal as threatening someone's life, in most cases laws should be structured to protect the rights of the majority, not the minority, etc.
|
|
White Eagle
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Oct 2013 01:47pm
Reply
Quoting: skootamattaschmidty I will add that I don't have a problem when people who want to enjoy nature and wander on my land. It's the ones that litter their empty beer cans, Tim Horton's coffee cups (I'm Canadian eh) etc, do damage or worse, steal! Surely White Eagle you can rationalize why people would want to protect what they have worked so hard for and enjoy so much.
I think that is awesome that you do that. I am also Canadian I would wager that most people respect nature enough not to do this, but there will always be the problem of the few.
Quoting: skootamattaschmidty Like Don said, history is full of unfairness, evil, whatever you want to call it. Unfortunately the future will be too. That's life and that's the reality. I'm sure everybody on this forum has worked very hard and sacrificed lots for what they have and what they enjoy. Today's system of land ownership works so let's embrace it and if someone chooses to protect their hard work and is not willing to share it then so be it. It is their right.
Well, lessening the impact of the evil/unfairness should be in everyone's best interest imo, especially given the fact that as of few decades ago, in a historically unprecedented way, we now wield the nuclear power to wipe ourselves off the face of this planet
Quoting: skootamattaschmidty On a final note, in Canada there are always ongoing Native land claims. Our Federal government continues to try and right the wrongs of the past, often at the expense of us in the present and future. I get that Natives were displaced, swindled with bad deals, however you describe it. But I have to ask what about all the people who have ever been swindled out of their life savings/ their homes, their land by fraudsters, criminals, government or have been displaced by big corporations? Are all those victims compensated the same way? I think not!
As long as our Provincial Parks and as much of the surrounding wild land areas as possible can stay public, I will be much happier than these vast stretches of our beautiful land ending up in some rich man's hands, who will then proceed to put up "no trespassing" signs everywhere.
|
|
skootamattaschmidty
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Oct 2013 02:09pm
Reply
In some ways I do agree with you White Eagle. We in Ontario are blessed to have vast tracts of land reserved for our Provincial Park system and we have lots of crown land. I grew up camping and prior to buying my cabin, we camped all over this great country with our kids and got to enjoy what our nation truly has to offer. It would be a tragedy to not have this. I believe this is one of the reasons the park system was created, to preserve nature and land and allow everyone to enjoy it.
It always saddens me however when I go for a walk around my property or on the crown land nearby when I see empty beer cans, broken beer bottles and garbage tossed on the ground by those that are too lazy and selfish to take it home with them. It also saddens me when I see land owners who have allowed their places to become rundown, over trodden with junk, old broken down cars etc. whether we are owners or visitors to land, we all have to take a bigger part in keeping it beautiful for future generations to enjoy. My number one rule at my cabin to all visitors is that I want it to look the same on the day you leave as it did on the day you arrived.
Yes I would hate to see our natural settings to fall into the hands of a few who exclude public use of it and I agree with you on that point. However I think for the majority of us on this forum, we have small parcels of land we have worked hard for and we have a vested interest in maintaining and preserving it. Unfortunately like anything else, it only takes one to ruin it for everyone else. For those that have had the unfortunate experience of vandals, thieves etc, I do not blame them one bit for trying to keep people out.
|
|
MtnDon
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Oct 2013 09:43pm
Reply
So what is this upper limit of how many acres/hectares an individual is allowed to own privately in your idealistic world, white eagle? And how is that arrived at? Who gets to make that decision?
|
|
White Eagle
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Oct 2013 01:11pm
Reply
Quoting: MtnDon So what is this upper limit of how many acres/hectares an individual is allowed to own privately in your idealistic world, white eagle? And how is that arrived at? Who gets to make that decision?
I wish I was smart enough to figure this out. I think it should be an individual determination and not mandated by the government and I am cautiously hopeful and optimistic that we (humans) can figure it out. Here are some stats:
Global population clock: http://www.worldometers.info/
Land available on Earth: http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/DanielChen.shtml
Depending on your social and humanitarian views, different formulas can be applied to figure out some hints wrt trying to answer your question. I am not claiming it's a simple one, that is for sure, but I think some kind of sharing of land and recognition of people's right to it will be an important tenet.
|
|
MtnDon
Member
|
# Posted: 7 Oct 2013 06:04pm
Reply
Well, good luck with this voluntary program.
I fail to make the connection between individuals owning privately held land (and keeping it posted private) and the population of the earth, or how many computers are sold each year, how many tweets are made, how many people die from smoking, etc.
(My computer is 6 years old, I have never tweeted and have not smoked since June 1985 and we have "posted" around the perimeter of our property. Barbed wire fences and locked gates too.
interesting concept. I wish those trespassers and litterers would sign onto...
VHEMT
|
|
toyota_mdt_tech
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Oct 2013 09:06am
Reply
Sounds like marxism or socialism to me. Not my forte. I wanted land to roam and build on etc. I just bought it like everyone else in here did. I'm sure if you asked permission and left no footprint that you were on it, no one would mind you using it I'd bet. But to force the govt to somehow confiscate it directly or indirectly to distribute to others is wrong.
|
|
MJW
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Oct 2013 11:20am
Reply
Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech But to force the govt to somehow confiscate it directly or indirectly to distribute to others is wrong.
Unfortunately, we move a little closer to this very thing everyday.
|
|
|
littlesalmon4
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Oct 2013 12:31pm
Reply
Just post a simple non offensive sign.
Private drive/no turn around
|
|
silverwaterlady
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Oct 2013 09:31pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady
Reply
I don't expect a person that does not own land to understand why those that do would simply put up no trespassing signs to protect from liability. A person that has no respect for no trespass signs most likely won't honor them on a landowners property!
|
|
RichInTheUSA
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Feb 2014 11:00pm
Reply
Hmmm.. perhaps "No Trespassing, Firearms in Use by Owner".
This sends a message that you are serious, but that you simply don't want anyone to get hurt.
Thoughts?
|
|
Just
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Feb 2014 09:06am
Reply
I just posted a full time armed guard
|
|
bldginsp
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Feb 2014 01:17pm
Reply
If I'm driving around and see a 'No Thru Road' or 'Dead End' sign I'm reluctant to proceed, or 'No Turnaround'. Thieves usually look for a place that has two escape routes instead of only one, cause if someone is coming up the only access they are trapped.
|
|
tcmatt
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Feb 2014 03:33pm
Reply
this reminded me of a sign I saw once when canoeing a river here in northern MI. It said "Trespassers will be Violated".
One might roll the dice on prosecution; not so much when being violated is at stake.
|
|
bldginsp
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Feb 2014 08:26pm
Reply
You can take a 'Violators will be Prosecuted' sign, cut it up, turn it around to say:
'Prosecutors will be Violated'
|
|
old243
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Feb 2014 11:45pm
Reply
We have placed several traffic cones , across our road, to the hunt camp. We keep them there in deer season as well, if we are there. If someone we know , wants in they will move them and replace them. We do have a cable about 100yards in . That we hang up if we are not there . Make sure a cable or chain is highly viable. An ATV or snowmobiler can be badly hurt , by hitting them . Even if they should not be there. SPELL LAWSUIT. We have never had a cone stolen yet.
At my farm ,I put up signs, cropland keep out. This is hayfields and grain fields. Put where Atv's might enter. Most people honor them. The ones that don't get spoken to, impolitely Old243
|
|
Truecabin
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Feb 2014 12:19pm
Reply
thread is Are there polite "PRIVATE PROPERTY" signs? answer is no because nobody would buy them nobody cares about polite
your taking about the good old days and there gone
our parents generation didnt pass it down and its over
gone forever unless the kids dream it up and start again
|
|
sugarriver73
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Feb 2014 07:59pm
Reply
Seen on Tv and read a bit Purple paint law to mark trees..
|
|
Bevis
Member
|
# Posted: 12 Feb 2014 01:17pm
Reply
I was unknowingly caught trespassing on someone elses property, after my dogs went after a hog. In the middle of tying up this hog the fellar rolls up and demanded to know what I was doing there... As I showed him where I had came in at (it looked wide open) but after looking more closely, his fence had been cut and folded back into the brush. I had appoligized and would take what ever punishment I had coming. He said to leave and not come back...OK
I got back to my truck and had some barb wire and two fence posts...so I rode back out there to repair his fence. As I finished he pulls up to do the job, and I told him that's the least I could do, for him not sticking it to me.
So now I have his name and Number, and if my dogs cross the fence to give him a call to say I'm on his land...no problems now. I have been back out to help him post private Property, no trespassing signs every 100' on a nice metal sign attached to a 4x4 post.
|
|
hattie
Member
|
# Posted: 13 Feb 2014 12:37pm
Reply
That's a great story Bevis. Good on you for doing that!!! If only more people were that considerate!!
|
|
ChuckDynasty
Member
|
# Posted: 13 Feb 2014 05:45pm
Reply
Here's a pretty good one.
|
|
Platz
Member
|
# Posted: 19 Apr 2014 04:56pm
Reply
TomChum and to all other viewers.....don't listen to others opinions. Get your info. straight from the horses mouth.
In Ontario, Trespass to Property Act, RSO 1990, c T.21 (URL) is the place to start.
If you're property is not in Ontario, research local Trespass laws. Knowledge of the law will help you in the field and in the court if that happens.
Regarding "politeness".....whether you buy or make your own sign, simply add "Please" to the beginning or "Thank you for your cooperation" at the end even if on a separate sign on the same post.
The exception to trespass rules are building officials, however, they need motivation to come out. For example, some one complains / scheduled inspection / aerial fly-over. Regarding aerial fly-over, there are no picture signs for this situation.
Don't forget, the U.S. government made it legal to extinguish people if found trespassing.
 
|
|
hattie
Member
|
# Posted: 19 Apr 2014 05:22pm
Reply
Platz - Those signs are GREAT!!!!! Thanks for posting that! 
|
|
KinAlberta
Member
|
# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 04:16am - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply
Yeah we've never liked the idea of no tresspassing signs but put up a few for liability purposes. My dad always said that they only keep the good people out.
In Alberta the Province used to have nice "Use Respect" signs they'd hand out. I haven't seen those in years though.
We always enjoyed seeing families (mostly staying at the nearby RV resort) wander onto our land and go down to the creek and watch the birds, animals, etc. they used to fish the creek from our land too.
However, we've had people in the past (mostly natives according to the wardens back in the 60s and 70s) that would put chicken wire weirs across the creek and strip it of all the fish. They threw one warden into the creek when he approached them.
Then there was always the odd beer bottle, pop cans and bits of trash left behind. No big deal. Just sad. Lately though we've come across the ashes of campfires started within a feet feet of spruce trees. Stupid!
Then two weeks ago someone was shooting beaver in our creek. I was out there alone racing against time to finish my tiling so didn't take a walk to find out who was doing all the shooting and may not have anyway - tiling or no tiling. Maybe a neighbour thinking he was doing us a favour, I don't know, so now I have a problem. Put up no hunting signs and maybe embarrass a neighbour. I don't want that. Carefully ask around? Same risk. I'll probably just put up no hunting signage in the spring. Should have done it years ago I guess. BTW, we have several no fires signs - that weren't read or were ignored. Need more of those now too. 
Some unknown guy shooting a rife, on a Sunday evening in July, on ones property, is a real nuisance. Another damned thing to deal with.
|
|
KinAlberta
Member
|
# Posted: 5 Aug 2014 04:51am - Edited by: KinAlberta
Reply
A sign worthy of its own post - a nice sign:
http://www.liska.ca/2014/06/
"Private Property
For hiking only
All other uses..."
.
|
|
RichInTheUSA
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Aug 2014 07:55am
Reply
Back to the original topic. I use two signs...
1) POSTED Private Property - No Trespassing, Hunting, Fishing.
2) Keep Out - Firearms in Use.
The first one is to meet the legal obligations in my state for being able to prosecute trespassers. If property is not posted, then the trespassers only get a warning. If it is posted, then no warning is necessary, and the person could be prosecuted. This does not mean that I'll press charges... it means that I could.
The second one is to warn people of possible danger by coming on this property.
If I see a couple or family taking a hike and they wonder onto my property, then it's not a big deal... If I see hunters in full camo during hunting season, then that's a different story. Even then, got to use some judgement - are they a neighbor, or friend of a neighbor? Is this a repeat offense?
Personally, I'd rather have the signs be straight forward... and use the friendly approach while making the judgement calls.
No fluffy feel good signs for me.
|
|
CaptCanuck
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Aug 2014 09:16am - Edited by: CaptCanuck
Reply
Signs won't necessarily keep people away, but it does help cover your butt if someone trespasses on your property and injures themselves.
I don't favour signs with threats of shooting, etc...because unless our lives were being threatened, I would never take someone else's life for being on my property or even stealing from me.
If you have a trail or two (or a road) that is often used by trespassers, try putting up a no trespassing or private property sign and a nearby trailcam so that you can capture them in the act and take the evidence to local law enforcement. If it is a small community, there is a good chance they will recognize the trespassers.
|
|
KinAlberta
Member
|
# Posted: 14 Sep 2014 09:28pm
Reply
Ahh, but the original poster (and me too) wants to avoid the harsh No Trespassing style signage.
|
|
Tarmetto
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 2014 07:39am
Reply
Don't know what the regulations are in SC, where our cabin property is, but here in NC...the signs must have the owner's name on them to be considered sufficient.
|
|
toyota_mdt_tech
Member
|
# Posted: 15 Sep 2014 02:21pm
Reply
Quoting: Tarmetto Don't know what the regulations are in SC, where our cabin property is, but here in NC...the signs must have the owner's name on them to be considered sufficient.
I'm thinking about using a Sharpie and ink in a contact number too for any emergency. A local who has my gate combination codes can open them to free lost free ranging cattle etc. Tarmetto, did you get the QSL card? Drop me an email (on card) 
|
|
| << . 1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . >> |
