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TomChum
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2011 01:06pm - Edited by: TomChum
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Does anyone have thoughts on signage to keep (most) explorers from entering my driveway? Their traffic, and backup/turnaround (when my gate becomes visible) makes my meadow look like a nice parking area, and to some, a suitable campground.
I hate seeing NO TRESPASSING and other loud neon signs shouting at everyone in the forest. Some "hunters" have taken down my Private Property signs; I suppose to hunt my place without guilt. This happened on the LAST weekend of the season.... Anyone have suggestions what to use specifically for hunting season? Does "Hunting by Permission Only" seem to work?
For the rest of the year I would like some signs to 'inform' but not yell at anyone. They're just pokin' around, following roads, doing the same things I love to do. I prefer to treat the nice people respectfully. I don't know what to to do with the jerks, and haven't had any yet (other than the ones who took down my signs?). I have a heavy steel gate ~150 yds in, placed where the road traverses a steep hillside. But people like to camp in the meadow, along the driveway, outside of my gate. The area appears to be public. I'd like to inform people that this area is private.
"Protected by Smith & Wesson" is not interesting to me. A sign like that is probably OK to some, but rude to most. I am not interested in perpetuating or encouraging the rudeness that is becoming part of the "American Way", (at least not yet....) Too much signage might attract the wrong type of person to poke around for my gun locker.
Interested in opinions whether its possible to "manage" explorers, and the locals, respectfully. I understand it has a lot to do with location and how many people drive the roads. I do not have a lot of traffic (except hunting season).
What I'm looking for signage that seems to work without yelling. Being a newby, I'm trying 'polite' first.
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farfromhome
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2011 02:58pm
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I too have a similar situation and have been thinking about how to word and put up signs. We have a driveway that opens up to a 10 acre field. Beyond that is the cabin and the remainder of the property. I know that the local villagers walk the property with their dogs; which I have no issue. I just don't want any ATV's, snowmobiles or hunters. The "No Trespassing" signs are mandatory on the property for insurance purposes. So they are scattered along the various property boundaries. I was thinking about putting up a large sign on the road leading to the cabin. The sign would read "Environmental Protection Area: No Trespassing" I just don't want the non-local tourists on the property.
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MikeOnBike
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2011 04:42pm - Edited by: MikeOnBike
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The simplest thing you can put up is a 'No Trespassing' sign at the edge of your property. This is not yelling. You may need to put a gate/fence at the start of your property. Even if you leave it open most of the time it will more strongly signal the property boundary. You can inform anyone that you don't mind on your property that it doesn't apply to them. Another option that might have a more polite connotation is 'Private Property'.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2011 05:03pm
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Personal experience has shown us that most people, the real honest ones, will not enter a driveway with highly visible Private, Keep Out type of signs. A gate right there at the turn onto the private road is best, along with the signs. I think they have to be bright and bold lettered. Earth tone will fade into the background.
We use a gate, left closed even when we are there, and several signs.
We have bright signs and I also have dated photos showing the installed signs in case someday someone tries the "I never saw a sign" routine, after they've removed the sign and been caught.
If you let them up the road and then place a gate they will have to turn around and make a mess.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2011 05:39pm
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Further note: In NM there is a state statute that says that the sign must include the word POSTED, then the rest of the message. And a contact name and number. Might be something to check on. ???
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Timberjack
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2011 09:12pm
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The trespassing problem is one that comes with the territory of land ownership. A wise old man once told me, "well marked property lines tend to make for good neighbors". I think the same can be said for signs. There is the issue of liability as well. I wouldnt think it rude of you to have signs alerting others of a change in ownership from public to private. Two years ago a deer hunter was trespassing on some of my inlaw's property. I politely informed him that the land was private but that it did border some U.S. Forest Service lands and even offered information to him about good areas to hunt. He was offended that I had confronted him and his only defense was that we didnt have any signs posted. That has since been remedied.
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dabones
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2011 09:50pm
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I too hate the signs, but unfortunately they are necessary for your privacy and safety..
In NY they sell "POSTED No Trespassing" signs at every hardware store for cheap.. you can even buy rolls of perforated plastic signs that tear apart..
NY State Law is that you have your corners and every 150' in between marked with those signs.. That keeps you un-liable if someone uninvited gets hurt on your property.. it even protects you if you give permission, **unless however, you charge 'rent', then you are liable because you provided a service**
I have pounded in fence posts with ribbon (also my survey stakes are still in the ground at the corners) every 50-75 feet along my line with a neighbour who I do not really know, eventually i will do the other side as well, but we are friends so I'm not super concerned, it's more to protect me from someone trespassing already on his to my property..
You could write a letter (put in a plastic sleeve) addressed to ppl explaining that this is your private property, and that you would appreciate no camping and respect of your property.. and give an E-Mail or phone number you can be reached at for contact....
**you can get a Google Voice number (in the US) [or freephoneline.ca in Canada] for free that will forward to your home/cell if you are leary of leaving your real number..
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dabones
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2011 09:52pm
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Why get offended?, he should have been apologetic ( I would be) and then be thankful for the info you gave.. some people take everything the wrong way eh?..
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soundandfurycabin
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2011 12:58am
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You could put up a largish name sign, "The Smiths", and maybe driveway marker posts with address number or a mailbox, all of which would signal the start of private property without being the least bit abrasive to anyone. However I think I'd go with a minimal gate, such as a chain across the drive.
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fooboo
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2011 01:59am
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Sorry, I couldn't pass up the opportunity...
From the Katrina aftermath... my favorite no trespassing sign...
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TomChum
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2011 02:36am
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Yes thats a reasonable way, but in my case I need to find a way without giving the signal that there might be a cabin up there.
Anyway it's great hearing ideas; a lot of folks can use for different situations.
Anyone know where I can find some "Private Property" signs in classic old yellow & black?
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Timberjack
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2011 07:36am
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One of my forestry clients is an old school type of guy. He always tried to accommodate hunters and would give permission to almost anyone. That all ended a few years ago when a hunter stepped into a stump hole on one of his properties and injured his ankle. The injury eventually required surgery and the guy had no medical insurance to pay the bill. He sued my client and won a judgement against him. He no longer gives anyone permission to be on his property for any reason without signing a waiver. This is the world we are living in, it can happen.
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hattie
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2011 11:44am
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The oldtimer who used to live up the mountain behind us put up a bunch of funny signs on the road to his house. By the time you got to the last sign you weren't quite sure if this was in fun or some really crazy hippy comune that you might get shot at. *S* Here are just a few of his signs. They worked quite well for him (except for the snowmobilers who occasionally came in from the other end where there were no signs).
Sign_2.jpg
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Sign_3.jpg
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Sign_5.jpg
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Sign_8.jpg
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fooboo
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2011 12:42pm
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I've found that if you put up a chain, they will just steal it. I've since gone to a sturdy gate that I keep closed all the time.
I have posted signs every 100' or so - even though Florida law says 500'. 500 is just not close enough together for a hunter on foot to see the signs. Even with the signs at 100' though, people still trespass.
The best thing I've done is just become very diligent about destroying any and all ATV trails and smaller footpaths leading into the property, except for my main road. Hunters and ATV'ers are mostly a lazy bunch. Pile up an 8' tall pile of logs and branches in their trail and put a posted sign right at that spot. At first they will go around it, you just have to keep piling up brush and they will eventually go away.
It also helps to confront them face to face and while you are armed. I make every trespasser show me his ID and I write down the name and DL number and tell them I'm sending the info to the Sheriff and they have been officially warned. I swear, I think every trespasser must be related to every other trespasser, because I've seen the same last name more than once. When the word gets out that you mean business, they will move on to easier spots. At least, I'm convinced of that now on my place.
I thought about putting up signs that say "video surveillance in use" and actually backing that up with real cameras but this hunting season has not been bad at all - only a couple of people who opened the gate and drove in totally lost and asking for directions. I haven't had any problems with hunters or ATV's this year.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2011 03:16pm
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Yow! I'm glad I don't have that problem. But I'm aware that things can change.......
Currently my entrance is a pretty meadow, which would change significantly for all passers-by, if I had to resort to signs and brushpiles....not to mention other aggressive deterrents.
If I had that kind of 'visitors' I would not be able to relax when I go to my cabin. Something would have to change, as relaxation is a top priority. Hard work can be relaxing (for me), but worrying about intruders is never relaxing for anyone. You have my sympathy for your situation.
My driveway looks inviting. I want it to keep it that way for myself (and for passers-by..... but not actually invite! *** Hence my problem! *** That's why I'm looking for ideas for the right sign to post. Or other solutions. One idea I had is to narrow-up my entrance with logs at the edge (and let the groundcover and bushes come back). I'll be looking into that this spring.
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fooboo
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2011 02:04am
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I understand what you're saying about relaxation and trespassers can definitely put a dent in that.
In my case, and I think in many others, the trespassers are from a small number of families that have hunted and used your land for generations. They almost feel as if it is their birthright to use your land - and use it anyway they want (meaning littering, creating new trails, destroying trees and fences, etc.) A line on a map at some courthouse means nothing to them.
It takes a while to change this mentality but it can be done. It has taken me about 3 hunting seasons but now the problem seems to have completely disappeared for the most part (so really just two hunting seasons to run off the riff raff).
I guess what I'm trying to say in a nutshell is that once you get the few bad apples in your county to understand you mean business, then 99.9% of the problem will go away.
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spee
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2011 02:40pm
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I put up 3-4 signs accross my 1000 ft of road frontage and Put Bright Orange dots on a couple other trees. after the winter ill add a gate.
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elkdiebymybow
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# Posted: 17 Jan 2011 03:32pm
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I came across a sign in the backcountry once around a mine that said:
"Keep Out! No Tresspassing! Violators Will Be Shot".
The forest service said this guy had a habit of backing up his sign with his gun and has shot at a bunch of folks. Didn't seem to work for us though, we fired off about 75 rounds to let him know we were in the neighborhood....
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spee
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2011 08:51am
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Quoting: elkdiebymybow I came across a sign in the backcountry once around a mine that said: "Keep Out! No Tresspassing! Violators Will Be Shot". The forest service said this guy had a habit of backing up his sign with his gun and has shot at a bunch of folks. Didn't seem to work for us though, we fired off about 75 rounds to let him know we were in the neighborhood....
Maybe in the US, the owner would get away with that but NO WAY in Ontario. He would be in Jail forsure.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2011 10:13am
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If someone in the USA has done that and is getting away with it someone is not doing their job right. There is a cantankerous old land owner in the vicinity of of mtn land. He threatened, did not shoot, but made threatening motions with his rifle. The Sheriff took the complaint very seriously. Turns out he had done the same before. He received a suspended sentence because of his age. There have been no further incidents.
(He was blocking access to a public right of access across his property, something he had no right to do.)
I also think it ill advised to post signs that threaten shooting people, even if the thought is made in jest.
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bugs
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2011 11:55am - Edited by: bugs
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We have gone with simple No Trespassing, No Trespassing No Hunting signs and a chain across the driveway. We also enrolled our property into a Wildlife Habitat Protection plan which provides signs as well. We posted the signs in the corners and midway down the property lines.
I should mention that vehicle access to our property from the road is only through the driveway as the road side is heavy bush along the extent of the road front. The back of our property is all water so it is only accessible by boat in the summer. The sides are hay land and fenced pasture. So far we have not had no trouble. We have seen a snowmobile tracks on the hay land and pond during the winter.
When I was picking up the signs from the local farm store the person behind me commended me for choosing the metal signs. Cause bullets either just dent the metal or go right through and the sign is still visible. The plastic ones at temperatures below 0C tend to shatter/explode when the bullet hits them!! He was talking from experience. Sign shooting is a recreation in rural SK.
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Xplorer
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2011 03:29pm
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This is what happens when you let people come & go as they please. This is my property where it comes off the dirt road going past our property. We have heard many times from people we caught trespassing "we thought this was Jack's property". That's Jack's equipment sitting in our driveway :-(
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Xplorer
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2011 03:32pm - Edited by: Xplorer
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I might add, we gave verbal permission to use our driveway as a right of way & really made a big mistake. Getting a lawyer involved...
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2011 03:38pm
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Looks to be a difficult place to gate securely and inexpensively too.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2011 04:03pm - Edited by: TomChum
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Sorry to see that, you have my sympathy. As I wrote before it's hard to relax at your cabin when you have such problems out at the entrance. Heavy usage suggests that there's a lot of people passing by. I can't imagine you could ever change that momentum. But it seems you could reduce the number that enter your driveway.
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Steering back to the topic of this thread which is, "Are there polite PRIVATE PROPERTY signs?" ......
If you get too punitive with your signage, you put your sign at risk of getting shot up. Maybe you could reduce the number of explorers by simply informing them better.
Due to the similarity of their reasons, you might be able to cut the mistaken intrusions down by simply posting a sign that says "NOT Jack's Property".
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 20 Jan 2011 04:37pm
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We got permission from the Forest Service to place a "Dead End, Private Property Ahead" sign at one of the last forks along the FS road. I can't say if it turns people away or not. But it might.
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elkdiebymybow
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2011 01:01am
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Quoting: TomChum simply posting a sign that says "NOT Jack's Property".
Great suggestion Tom!
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hattie
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2011 01:06am
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Quoting: TomChum Due to the similarity of their reasons, you might be able to cut the mistaken intrusions down by simply posting a sign that says "NOT Jack's Property".
That seems to make good sense to do - plus a bit of humour *S*. Hubby and I came across some interesting property we wanted to explore one day. At the entrance, however, there were a LOT of vehicles "parked" nearby so we decided not to go there. It turns out the guy who squats on the Crown land put the old vehicles there just to make it look like lots of people are around and the vehicles are just junkers. His idea worked for us, cuz we stayed clear figuring there was a party going on.
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bobrok
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2011 01:02pm
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Quoting: hattie plus a bit of humou
Might this work?
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TomChum
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2011 04:48pm
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I've seen those. I have to admit I chuckled the first time I saw one, but luckily I was headed somewhere else. In my area, the locals are all armed to the teeth but there are no rude signs in their driveways. (Knock on wood)! It's still a nice place to go, and I'm going there tonite!!! Yahoooooooo!
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