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Rickant
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2017 06:26am
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Hi all - well, we visited a lot yesterday in a plan b. We love the lot but dont have much experience with the building process. It is in Ontario, and we will use permits. Just wondering how onerous it is for a seasonal dwelling. Are all the requirements the same as far as inspections go? What kind of site prep MUST you do? I'd like to have a bit of a lane way and a flat spot for a cabin but not mch more than that. We'd like to consider going off grid and wondered how does that impact the building permit - do you still wire the cabin like a regular house and deal with the solar later? We'd like to do a cabin that could just be dropped on site, but there are a couple hills and right turns so I doubt that is possible. Ugh, not knowing how this all works makes it seem daunting from 2 hours away.
Here's what I think I would need to do.
1. Call the township and see if there are any restrictions on this lot, and what the township will allow (including trailers for short term). We'd like to do a simple cabin, possibly solar with a generator option.
2. Negotiate and write a big cheque
3. Find a plan, figure out solar etc.
4. Get permit
5. Prep site including area for build and thin out some bush if necessary. Of course would need to find someone to do the work. Is this a matter of a bulldozer and truckloads of gravel?
6. Get building in place - could a crushed gravel base work? A prefab would be the best route for us but not sure I can make it work delivery wise.
7. Do electrical, plumbing. Fairly minimum plumbing if composting unless we go with gray water system. Much more to consider.
7. Insulate and put up some sort of interior.
8. Realize that the entire summer is gone.
Ugh. We have the dream but need to make it manageable. Insights appreciated.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2017 09:14am
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It's a bit overwhelming at first- step by step...
Wiring is the same no matter what the power source, that is, so long as you are using 120/240AC. If you wired for 12v DC you would have to make changes appropriate to that.
What the township will allow is anything beyond the minimum that they will require. Sounds trite but that's the basic idea- they only require so much and anything beyond that is up to you. So you need to start with a complete understanding of the minimum requirements. Varies a great deal from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Water source and water disposal are big sanitary issues for all jurisdictions. If you have a water source many jurisdictions will require a septic or greywater system of a certain capacity because once that water goes into your cabin it is going to come out. Some areas have limited requirements for 'dry cabins', others do not.
If the township does not require a certain minimum for a foundation, you would be allowed to use a gravel base. But I'd think long and hard before you do. 'Could a crushed gravel base work?' Well, yes, at least for the first six months, or maybe longer, who knows. There is another thread on the site now about a tilting and failed concrete pier foundation, making the house worthliess or even more a liability than an asset.
But if the township requires a minimum for a foundation that will dictate the minimum you must do, but again, you can do more if you wish. I did- I put a lot more rebar in my concrete foundation than the minimum requirement, because I don't want to have to fix it when I am 80......
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Ontario lakeside
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2017 12:49pm
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Hey Rickant
We are 5 years into the very project you describe. We have documented most of the process on our youtube channel if you want to have a look and Im happy to answer any questions. We are about 1 hour east of peterborough.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGuSGWaR9LgZwYVvaE3sXIA/videos
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Rickant
Member
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2017 02:32pm
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Cool, I will have a look tonight, thanks!
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2017 04:19pm
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Rick... something to ponder given your location.... Guildcrest Homes (modular prefabs) in Morewood Ontario builds some pretty decent places and they have a few models on display off HWY 17 north of Arnrpior by a couple of Kms. Guildcrest was bought out by Pro-Fab from Montreal and now offer several of their models which will also be built in Morewood, these are all compliant to the 2016 Codes and certified. Makes permits etc reasonably moot.
Pro-Fab Website in Quebec http://profab.ca/en/ **
** Units certified for Ontario will be built @ Morewood not all will qualify.
Guildcrest Website (being updated)
http://guildcrest.com/
ATTACHMENTS for the Eldorado II picture & floorplan.... The cost of this one would be $114,000.00 with the purchaser being responsible for the piers to put it on. plus the infamous taxes. This has Radiant Heating & On Demand Hot Water as part of it +++
Once you find land your interested in check with the County / Township to see what requirements they have. Do they allow "Hunt Camps" ands Recreational Properties ? (that can be used sometimes as a way of accomplishing things)
IF That is a "pass" then check the local water situation... by checking here: https://www.ontario.ca/environment-and-energy/map-well-records Put in the area and see what the wells are around the intended property. You'll get depth, when drilled, how drilled etc... VALUABLE INFO !!! It will tell you roughly how deep the wells are around you... NB: If your in Hilly Terrain that is a bit tricky. I paid $35 a foot for cable pounding drill through granite that took almost 3 weeks. Bore drill is cheaper but does not fracture rock so deeper you go for the flow, so that adds up the difference in a hurry.
Site Prep: All depends on what you will decide on building. The Modular Unit I posted above can go on Blocks or Slab as it is built to be up (floor etc are all super insulated) you could do a basement as well but then a crane will be needed too.
Grey Water / Composting: OH BOY - Well some townships / counties it's no problem, other's freak out. This is a topic you best have a good handle on and have info about commercial solutions that are approved for Ontario. In my county it's fine if you do it yourself as long as the rules are followed BUT in the next county over, no way unless it's a full commercial system. Best to keep this subject low key and approach it as "what are my options, what is in use in the county now" and be aware rules are all in process of change for 2018, so if you can now, you may not be able to in 12 months BUT in 12 months somethings will be permitted that are not now. Just had that discussion with our building inspector, much changing...
A reasonably good driveway / entry should be done... You do NOT want to have a concrete truck get stuck unless you have piles of cash to toss out. So basics like that will have to be addressed so contractors, suppliers & you can get in & out.
Solar: Planning in advance is always best... You can determine how much you'll need and what works for your situation... Once you know "what" you need you can figure out how to best incorporate it. IMO I would not put it on the Cabin/House unless your using Solar Shingles. OFFGRID - ONGRID ? IF power lines are at property maybe worth looking into it. IF you have to run it in from any distance, you better sit down BEFORE seeing the quotes from Hydro One, then rethink off-grid again. All I have to say about Hydro One is BE PREPARED FOR SHOCK !
FYI Realtors know very little in regards to codes and permissions / permitable construction. It simply is not their job, so ask questions BUT verify everything & anything and do not accept anyone's word till you have confirmed it. Especially important now that all the codes are being revised & updated.
Lastly... Land Survey's should be current, if previously surveyed it's not crazy expensive to get a resurvey IF you cannot find the Pins. Title Insurance is cheap and a one shot payment if you have any doubts and that will handle those issues should they arise (done during transfer by the lawyer if you ask).
Insurance Quirks. There are many but a few stand outs. Ins. Co's do not want trees within 30' of structure, they do not grasp "off-grid" very well and some consider that if you have no landline & powerlines you are in-insurable. (Gov is working on that re new codes). Some will be antsy on Septic vs Grey Water & Composting (mostly due to lack of familiarity & understanding). Other's won't touch Solar Powered (dumb as sin in this day & age but still happening). ONCE you firm up your plans & ideas then it's time to start shopping that... BTW: Local County Broker's are FAR MORE HELPFUL AND UNDERSTANDING and if said area permits certain things, they will have already gone through the fiddly bits of making it work. Forget using your City Broker / Agent as they won't have a clue. BTDT & have the T-Shirt Collection !
It may seem overwhelming and it can be so BUT it really isn't if you break it down into logical steps. Most important is the "progression" of how you implement everything and how fast you want to do so (of course budget is the controlling factor, right). I started out with a 2 yr plan that quickly hit the reality of a 5 year plan while I am not happy about that, i'm not unhappy either, just getting through it.
Hope all this helps and aims you in a few directions. You may also have a look at other Modular Builder's like Bonneville Homes which are also fairly local... they also are setting up new models on Hwy 17 which I saw this morning, couple really nice small ones too.... https://www.maisonsbonneville.com/eng/home
WARNING: Cash Transactions in excess of 10,000 in Canada are subject to FINTRAC to ensure funds are not coming from proceeds of crime etc... This can be avoided if your lawyer writes the cheques for you. This is a MAJOR HASSLE you don't need / want... again BTDT and have the torn t-shirts. INFO HERE: http://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/intro-eng.asp
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Rickant
Member
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2017 06:09pm
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Wow, great info, thanks. One option we are taking of is to start off with a simple cabin. North country has prefab cabins 14x44 that could get us started. They can drop them or site build them and usually put them on a slab or gravel pad but will also do blocks, piers etc. They are built to obc and you can get drawings fir permits. Would still need to figure out electrical, plumbing etc, and do all f the interior finishing, insulation etc. We've got four small kids so this seems like a somewhat viable option as a recreational dwelling. Still overwhelming though. Would 5k of solar provide enough for weekends?
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Rickant
Member
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# Posted: 21 Mar 2017 06:57pm
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Is there any way to check out the last sale of a lot easily beyond rea estate agents? I am trying to find out if the lot I am looking at was the result of a severance. A lot was purchased 8 years ago but I want know if it was this lot or the total property where two lots are for sale now?
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 21 Mar 2017 08:31pm
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Real estate transactions are public information, so you should be able to get a basic data sheet from the local assessor. Often building and planning departments will give it to you. The only info that is public record is when the parcel sold, how much, who bought it and what improvements are on the property.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 22 Mar 2017 08:50am
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Get the land first, doing it all at once can be overwhelming. Will you have a well? Structure needs to be 100 feet away. Solar well, area with no trees, but not to far com cabin site, ie wiring and plumbing. Will you be hooked to the utilities? Keep this in mind, distance is key to cost. Septic, if you are not required to have a pressurized system, have cabin in an area where gravity can operate septic. Once you do the site plan, then start executing.
Road, gravel, make it easy for cement truck and lumber truck to get in. Hiring a bulldozer is usually cheaper than you renting and then being slow, clumsy and doing more damage than repair. Those operators are like a well oiled machine. Then work on a cabin size and get a plan. Plenty online too.
Dont overwhelm yourself, take a step at a time and follow through, then move to the next phase.
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Rickant
Member
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# Posted: 26 Mar 2017 02:00pm
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Well, the saga continues. We found a lot that we wanted to buy. It was a bank sale, which are not as lucrative in Canada as they can be in the states. We did some research and put in an offer with one of the conditions being that the lot was buildable. Well... We called the township to get some additional info and found out that the lake is deemed as highly sensitive because it has trout habitat. For those lakes, the setback for new lots is 300m! This lot was created before the change. However we found out that the township has had difficulty with applying the rule consistently and now will not issue building permits and make revoke current ones until it is resolved! What a mess. From what I can see the wording in the zoning by-law was improperly written and grammatically says the setback is 300m for all lots now. The official plan is clearer. In any case this is apparently a huge issue and has impacted a few townships where there are highly sensitive lakes. Needless to say, the bank countered but we walked away since they have no line of sight to resolve this. If it went the wrong way, we'd buying buying a really expensive camping lot. Too bad because it is a beautiful lot. Sigh...
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 26 Mar 2017 06:51pm - Edited by: rockies
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Once you find your lot the biggest concern will be the foundation. I doubt you'll put in a full basement due to the complexity of excavating, getting concrete trucks in there, all the foundation waterproofing, etc. You might also consider a "slab on grade" foundation but again that involves a lot of concrete.
Using less concrete would involve a pier system (which I considered for a long time) but piers can move up and down due to frost heave in the winter and can also move laterally (lean from side to side).
One new system I've found is a space frame foundation. It's a system of metal bars that form a grid (Like a geodesic dome).
It's placed right on the ground (or on top of either a shallow gravel bed or pressure treated wooden pads) and supports the cabin. It's great for flood plains or soft soils and eliminates any possible movement of the cabin.
http://multipoint-foundations.com/
The company is located in Ontario.
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Rickant
Member
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2017 03:54pm
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Well just when you thought it was a saga.... The realtor with the Quebec property brought me a counter a few weeks after our offer (apparently this can happen in Quebec even if the offer is expired). We found the conditions exceptable and were negotiating on price. We put in a counter offer yesterday and decide to go up to the property since it has been maybe two months since we first saw it. Arriving at the lot the realtor walks over with a sheepish look on his face, I expected he was going to say that the sellers were refusing to negotiate again, but no ... The roof on he living room (a 12x15) addition had caved in under the weight of the snow. The three walls were now leaning out a bit and pulled away from the main part of the cottage. The inside and furniture we covered in snow and of course the roof... Needless to say that this cottage deal fell through lol. Not funny really because we had hoped to finally close a deal but no but at least it isn't our problem and maybe a sigh that it wasn't well built (or maybe too much snow this year). We confirmed yesterday that the lot on buckshot lake that we did t close on has a 300m setback due to it being a sensitive trout area. That lot is worthless now, glad we did our homework. It's might be possible to get a variance although the people at the township said highly unlikely. So one offer on a lot and an offer on a cabin have both fallen through now. Sigh, sigh, sigh....
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KelVarnsen
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2017 04:53pm
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Tough news Rickant. I guess you can count yourself lucky that the deal fell through when it did.
All I can say is don't give up. I had almost given up when I finally found my cabin and I couldn't be happier. All of the time looking through real estate sites and doing my homework on buying did eventually pay off. It did take several years. Hang in there.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2017 05:13pm
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Congrats on doing your homework and avoiding a snafu. Remember that the real estate agent's main motivation is to make a sale, so depending on their integrity, they may or may not tell you critical pieces of information. Always wise to go down to da local gubmint and get it straight from the horses mouth.
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