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TerraLove
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2016 07:36pm - Edited by: TerraLove
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A long time lurker here, finally took a deep breath and registered.
I grew up on a farm literally amidst a cow herd, hunting dogs and in 1 hour drive from the nearest town. Then I moved into the city and spent almost half a century in the concrete jungle. Finally with the kids off to college I thought I could make a move, buy some land and build a cabin to escape insanity of Toronto.
Long story short, I have looked at a property in Magnetawan. It is a vacant lot off a seasonal road with bush and some wetland, and like many properties in this region it has a so-called "Deer wintering area" which occupies about 1/3 of the property. There is an excellent building spot free of trees about 1 acre in size right in the middle of that area, but also there several pretty good treed spots in other parts.
I have sent an email to the city of Magnetawan but did not hear back yet. As I am growing a bit anxious about possibility of building a very meagre cabin, I am hoping someone experienced with this type of "environmental feature" can enlighten me what its presence entails.
The municipal development plan says that any new lots in the deer wintering areas should be at least 100x100 yards, vegetation should not be removed whenever possible and environmental assessment by a biologist is required. I am reading this from the section 4.6 mostly on p.9:
http://www.magnetawan.com/1735_Final%20OP_Sept1%20copy.pdf
Does that mean "in the deer wintering areas" or "if there is a deer wintering area on a property"? And what does a "new lot" mean? It almost sounds like severance, which would not be needed in this case. And if this plan only concerns itself with removal of trees, than is building on a spot which is already free of trees Okay?
So I am quite confused.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2016 11:17pm - Edited by: bldginsp
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I have no experience with deer wintering areas, but I can offer a little-
You MUST get the straight poop on exactly how this kind of thing is administered where you are, which you have obviously started to do. But don't just rely on what you read in the rule books, it's how it is actually administered that really matters. The way to find that out is to talk to people who do the work. They require that you hire a biologist to assess the situation. That probably means there are some, or perhaps only one, qualified biologist in the area whose assessment they will accept. This is the person to talk to. They have witnessed numerous deer wintering lots being built on, and the process of permitting it. They know what the authorities will require, and what you can and cannot do. If you can get one such biologist to visit the property for an hour and talk to you, all will become clear.
You might get all you need from talking to someone at the City, but they won't be willing to give you the whole story necessarily, just the standard requirements. The biologist will fill in the details left blank by the City. Or, you might get a very cooperative City employee who gives you good guidance. If email doesn't work, get on the phone or march down there, stand at the counter and smile like a good law abiding citizen. Take notes and get the name of the person who tells you things.
Also read the rules so you know them and can quote them, but there will be a lot of grey areas around what vegetation must be left, what is or is not a deer wintering area, where you can build, etc. It will be up to the City to make those decisions, and if you understand their priorities and how they work you will be able to get as much of what you want while complying with the regs.
Reality is no one knows for sure whether the silly deer will actually winter on your land, or exactly how much vegetation they will need, or how disturbed the deer are if the house is 50 feet away rather than 100. So understand that the City is playing a statistics game- they want properties set up so that in their judgement the averages are in favor of the deer being able to use it for their purposes in winter. Who sets the "averages"? They do, it's their job, frustrating as it sometimes is.
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TerraLove
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2016 10:09am
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This is of course a very good advise. If I will have not heard from the city a bit longer, I am going to call them. Unfortunately the history of me talking to the various municipalities in Ontario South of French River is not very fruitful. They usually have very little info, or are reluctant to share. They also seem to have no capacity to look up the lots by legal definition when there is no legal address as in this case. I have talked to Strong, Renfrew, Gray Highlands etc. etc. and they kind of pressured me into buying then applying on every occasion. I know it's good money for them, but does not really work for me.
Bottom line, I really would love to hear from someone who bought land which had a "deer wintering area" on it and built either within or outside of that area.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2016 11:33am
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Perhaps a call to the local MNR office might help ,They should know the rules.
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Wendigolake
Member
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2016 07:42pm
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I agree with Just...your local MNR office should give you the info you need. The deer in Ontario are their responsibility to control. I can't myself see why you would be not allowed to build, just because deer overwinter on your property but these days in Ontario, our Provincial Government is run by people who do not really understand (or even care about) the north and the rural areas. Even some of our "rural" governments are run by people with their own agendas.....Hope you get the go ahead to build eventually!!!
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TerraLove
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2016 12:10pm
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Got a run-around at the city. They said they need a filled out application for a building permit with costs paid to look into any questions. This is the same sort of reply I got from all municipalities I have contacted thus far all across Southern Ontario.
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 28 Nov 2016 03:39pm
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They don't want to answer "hypothetical" questions from the "merely curious". Can't blame them, they got their hands full just with the permits they have.
Have you tried contacting a biologist consultant?
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fitzpatt
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2016 10:08am
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I agree with bldginsp. It fully depends on how the locals are administering the rules. My property is also on a deer lot. They winterize on the entire acreage, and the municipality has designated a large region of the property as such. I also had misgivings about what building repercussions would result. As it turned out the chief building inspector did not so much as mention the designation. I had absolutely no issues. If you are able to reach the inspector in the area, it may be helpful to speak with him/her directly in place of one of the other bureaucrats.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 1 Dec 2016 09:46pm
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I still think contacting the consultant biologist is critical, because the building/planning department will defer to them, since they are the 'experts'. So even though the building dept has the last say, it's the required consultant who dictates the requirements within their field. The inspector has no idea what the consultant will require- he just knows that he has to see a signed report from the consultant with instructions, then the inspector makes sure the instructions are followed.
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