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Old Mill
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2016 12:21pm - Edited by: Old Mill
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Hi there!
I'm currently trying to navigate building codes and regulations in Lunenburg County, Nova Scotia, Canada. I have a lovely 9 acre lot on the river with a couple of old barns. We're looking to build a small cabin (160 SqFt). I'd really like to do this above board and legally but also as cheaply as possible. We are on Agricultural/ Industrial Zoning.
I was wondering if there are any Canadians out there who might have been through this progress and could answer the following questions:
1) What are the basic electrical requirements to meet code?
2) If using a composting toilet for black water do I need plumbing at all?
3) Is a leech field adequate for any grey water?
4) Do I have to be connected to a well or water main?
5) Any other problems you can see?
Its a huge thing to navigate but I'm currently saving to build next summer so I guess I've got the winter to figure things out!
Thanks,
Peter
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2016 02:45pm
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1. The Canadian Electrical Code, CE code, or CSA C22.1 is a standard published by the Canadian Standards Association and is national in scope but with possible adjustments for local conditions .
2 thru 4 are also usually local options, so all your best and most accurate answers are going to be from the local authorities having jurisdiction.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2016 09:30pm
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Most of your questions are probably covered by planning ordinances rather than building codes. The local zoning laws will dictate what you have to have on the property in order to have a residence there. For instance- where I am there are a lot of vacationers with trailers who own a piece of property and want to stay there in the summer. So the local ordinance says that if you have a septic system, you can live on the property in a trailer, tent, cabin whatever but only for four months out of the year. That is, without a well or other approved water source. Once you have approved water, you can live there year round. And there are other ordinances about how many trailers you can have, etc.
The building codes require that a residence has heating, hot water and washing facilities, and cooking facilities along with adequate light and ventilation. But they don't require septic systems, they just require that the sewage goes to an "approved means of disposal". Same with water, the plumbing code just says your water come from an approved source. All the rest is handled locally, because different locations have different situations that dictate how to handle things.
I doubt you are even required to have electrical, but if you have it, it has to meet the same code requirements as anywhere.
Since you plan to do it all above board anyway, I suggest you call or go into the local planning and building department with as much information as you have about the property and start asking questions. Of course, I f the rules they have are so prohibitive that you want to build without permits, you just tipped them off. So maybe you want to do your own research first- get a copy of the local planning ordinances and read it carefully, or talk to a local contractor who is familiar with the rules. Once you know generally what is allowed, you can go into the department and get specifics.
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Old Mill
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 07:10pm
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Thanks guys,
This is exceptionally useful information, it can be disheartening to navigate the requirements when planning a small cabin.
The water element of the project is slightly worrying, where we are a water source is basically going to be a well (which we would need to get drilled) and having heated water is also annoying. We would like to use water brought in from the city until we can afford to drill a well, likewise with heated water, we would like to live simply for a few days at a time until we can afford the water heating... both of which are a bit limited for us financially.
Thanks for suggesting the local planning ordinances, I think this will have to be a starting point. It looks as though we'll have to continue to save until we can afford all of the requirements. I wish we were able to build and improve (up to requirements) over a longer period to spread out the costs whilst still enjoying the site.
Many thanks for your advice.
Peter
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 08:06pm
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Hey there Old Mill...
North Eastern Ontario here...
Couple of Important points when talking to Building Dept.
Black Water = SEWAGE (Septic System - Toxic waste)
Grey Water = Dishwater, Shower Water, Laundry. NOT Toxic !
Composting Toilet = 2 types,
. 1) Dry using sawdust, chips, Loveable Loo (or similar - Cheap to make & use)
. 2) Wet - Electrically heated & dried, uses proprietary additives / materials - Expensive like SunMar or Natures Head.
REF:
http://humanurehandbook.com/store/LOVEABLE-LOO-Eco-Toilet.html
http://www.sun-mar.com/ **
http://www.envirolet.ca/ **
** = Certified & accepted in Canada.
Wells: Two types of Drilling.
"Cable Pounder" is cheaper, fractures the rock and tends to flow better (older method) My cost 2 yrs ago was $35 per foot drilled + $10 per foot for 6" Casing.
Bore Drill (like oil drills) cuts clean, no rock fracturing so goes deeper (average 20% deeper), adding to cost. I don't know $ as I used type 1
Well CASING must go 8' in Bedrock and stick 2' above soil grade.
Grey Water drainage... This depends on your land, soil type and layout. I have Sandy Loam and on a Granite Ridge, so I ran 2 lines of 50' down slope, 6-8' deep on a bed of gravel and topped with gravel... Coming from a 40Gal in ground tank that is fed from my cabin by a 2" line.
SPECIAL NOTE ! Grey Water, and Septic Fields MUST be a minimum of 50' apart and Well must be up slope from any drainage. That will be determined by your locality. Ask Casually & Non-commitally... What kind of distances are needed between well and septic or grey water systems etc... Get info on all types and do NOT tell them you are doing one or the other till they tell you what the score is.... You are gathering ALL the details & Facts before making ANY decisions (keeps you out of the doo doo as it were....)
Hot Water.... On Demand Propane is the most efficient & cheapest way to go really.... Have a look at https://www.eccotemp.com/ Many of us have'm, many choices & options depending on what you want to do. Best Deals can be gotten through Amazon.ca BUT occasionally they have a Manufacturers Sale (typically year end, clearing of stock).
ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS and read the many threads here... There is NO STUPID QUESTION, EXCEPT THE ONE UN-ASKED !
BTW: You never mentioned the types of barns on your property... In my Area old Log Barns are plentiful and several are being converted to homes... some dismantled and shipped over seas even... Other's dismantled and rebuilt on Concrete Slabs & reduced to make homes. These are Old Growth mostly so 24-30" logs. Is that a possibility ? Conversion or relocate & rebuild to new use ?
Hope it helps & Good Luck,
Steve
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Old Mill
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 09:54pm
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Steve,
Thanks so much! Really appreciate your advice. I was unaware of the two types of drilling for wells and you make some really good points about leech fields. One side of our property has 1000ft of river frontage which makes it possibly difficult to have approved leech field, perhaps is better to connect to the municipal sewage (about 300ft from the buildsite), certainly not ideal though.
As for the barns; they are not log unfortunately. Our initial intention was to rennovate the larger of the two into a home. We had a couple of contractors come take a look and quite for some foundation repair, structural repair and a new roof. They advised to get a engineer in to do the drawing and get an A9 basically circumnavigating the inspectors altogether but bare minimum for that work was quoted at about 50/60k... So that would be the long plan! Id rather get something up this year to enjoy the site but also don't really want an RV... Would rather invest into the property directly! I guess tiny house is an option but I've built one before and not completely sold on the idea!
Got a winter to figure it out!!
Really helps though Steve, thanks again.
Peter
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2016 11:02pm
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Have you considered collecting rain water? I did that for 5 years before drilling a well, and during a drought, and always had what I needed. You could use a simple Berkey type filter for drinking water.
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Dekagoldwingers
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2016 01:07am
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We have nstalled a rainwater system. I collect off of 3 roofs, and filter theatre into a buried potable tank of 1700 gals. The water coming out is filtered and treated with an ultra violet system. We also have additional 250 gal above ground storage. The water is quite drinkable but we use it for cooking, showers and dishwashing. We bring in 5gal filtered water for drinking. This system, with filters and pumps ran about $3500. Wells here arent that good and cost much$$.
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Old Mill
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2016 06:03am
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Thanks for your replies! Yes I have been considering rain water catchment, something I'd be really keen to do, but I'd need to figure out weather, upon inspection, that would be comfortably checked off by the local authority... Some how I doubt they would, something to look into when I speak with them. Who knows perhaps they would be ok with it? Did any of you guys have trouble getting rainwater catchment checked off by a building inspector? Or did you also have to be connected to a secondary source?
Thanks guys!
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2016 07:35am
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On the Waterfront, I agree, quite unlikely that you would be able to put any septic field to close to that, they are quite protective of the rivers after so many years of neglect and troubles...
That also raises potential issues with a well... Not likely you would have to go too deep thanks to a high water table BUT if the river water is not so good and the soil doesn't filter well enough... your not too specific about whereabouts you are, I'm hoping further inland near New Germany, your likely to have better luck.
I don't think NS has issues with Rain Catchment and there is no point in asking about it. Remember to "Manage your information" and be asking general questions, assumptions made by office staff can be a PITA. As for using it for drinking etc, I would not mention that and consider serious filtering etc... if your going there... but that is another topic thread which has been discussed by many before.
If you can get town water & sewage that may be good if the costs are reasonable but like everywhere else the price gouging is ongoing.
A temp Tiny House may do the trick... I have a 20' RV-Trailer chassis (used to be a Terry Taurus Camper) which still has the fresh & black water tanks, been thinking of turning that into an "Office / Den / Guest Room" kind of deal, with pretty much open space - so it has more than one use. Would be good for Maggie to do her office work in peace and more... But 160 sq feet is tight for two if fully decked out.
Have you found out what the minimum limits are ? Here for instance you can build up to 10x10 without needing any permit. You can build a "Shed" larger if it is on Skids or Blocks and can be moved. If it's anchored to piers or foundation then a permit is needed and subject to whatever inspections are needed. You have existing Farm Structures so building an extra building or two likely is not limited by the lack of a "residence" on the property.
NOTE: New National Building Codes and Requirements are coming down the pipe SOON ! The first batch is likely to be in place by early 2018 after which Provinces & Territories will make their adjustments. They will be requiring more insulation and changes to practices & methods, so keep that in mind.
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Old Mill
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2016 01:15pm
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Thanks again Steve, really passing some gems on here!
Oddly enough our place is actually in New Germany! I think you're right about the septic, so perhaps connecting to city sewage is the best option... bit of a pain though. Yeah, 160 would be pretty tight, but it would be temporary and my wife is often away for work. Out limits here are 215 sq feet but only as an accessory building (as in it cannot be used for residence in any way and a house needs to be onsite already) we were thinking of building it as an accessory building and then, post inspection, converting that to a more liveable spot, apparently you can get a permit for accessory building if you have a renovation permit in the pipe line for (in our case) the barn.
Really good heads up regarding the new building codes, for some reason I can't imagine that they're going to make building small cabins and off grid living easier... Looks like I'll be having a busy summer!
Many thanks,
Peter
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2016 07:51pm
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I never got a permit for my rainwater collection system, it wasn't required. But the Health department would never have approved it as a potable water source, without an approved filter/UV system. So I was just using the water for everything except drinking. So rainwater won't work as the water source for a habitable structure. In most areas you must have a clean water source and septic to have a legal residence. But many areas allow camping for X period of time under certain circumstances, which is what I was doing until I drilled my well. Now I can have a full time residence.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2016 09:03pm
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Just a thought which I dunno would / will apply to your particular area... I'm building a 480 sq foot cabin with separate power-pump-house (14x6) and more... I'm building this as a " Recreational Use / Hunt Camp " property. This simplified the building requirements & inspections BUT that is something that each county / region does according to their area.
Around you there is a lot of Agri land & your already on that, cottages & camps on the lakes so you may have that as an option.
Regarding Terms: be very careful of the terms you use with Town / City / Building Dept... Like "Black Water" vs "Grey Water".
The new codes are not about size but rather energy efficiency, insulation values and some structural updates along with material related to new materials including solar shingles etc... Long overdue but the naysayer's are already crying at increased costs and more whining as expected....
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