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AnnoyingWeekender
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2016 12:33pm
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Aloha forum!
Long time lurker, first time poster.
So, my husband and I are currently shopping for a smallish parcel of land in the Catskills on which to build an, ahem, "shed". We've been looking all over but are currently focused on a couple different properties in Sullivan County, specifically in the Swan Lake/Bethel area as we love the distance from our life in NYC, the price of the land in that area, and have no problem with ghost towns, bungalow colonies, or ultra Orthodox Jewish people.
We've found a couple parcels but there is one in particular that we LOVE except one kicker. The property is hidden behind a thick screen of trees and brush and opens into a meadow. The meadow is split between what would be our parcel and the next.
Whomever owns the adjacent parcel is using their section of the meadow for storing a bunch of very ugly junk. An old trailer covered in tarps, a dead school bus, some random car seats, piles of rusting/rotting building materials etc. it is decidedly not nice in what would otherwise be a gorgeous meadow.
The owner of the land bought it at auction for less than half of what he's trying to flip it for and clearly the neighbors junk gives us some great price negotiating leverage, but I'm interested in outside opinions. We intend to own, build on, and visit land for life. The owner of the adjacent parcel is ambiguous, but I'm trying to chase that info down now.
Is it worth it to buy the land for a crazy cheap price made possible by the neighbor's junk which possibly won't stay forever, or pass and keep looking for something without the eyesore.
Last thing - we don't intend to build on the meadow so we wouldn't be looking at that junk from our cabin - sorry, shed, but it would still be there to welcome us upon arrival every time.
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Just
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2016 12:57pm
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You could buy a different property for a crazy dear price and have a neighbour pile a bunch of junk on it after you by .. this is why we have property standard laws . I would buy and try to get it cleaned up .
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2016 05:50pm
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Agree with Just. As long as the junk-loving neighbor himself won't pose a problem for you. As in, is he a dangerous fruitcake who doesn't want anyone using the land next door and would make that abundantly clear whenever you were out there?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2016 05:57pm
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Quoting: Just this is why we have property standard laws .
But what laws are in effect for that location?
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naturelover66
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2016 06:04pm
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I say pass... Driving by a bunch of junk would drive me crazy.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2016 07:34pm
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Have two minds on this but I offer something to ponder instead...
If as you say there is old trailers, dead vehicles and assorted detritus, I think it is safe to assume that there is more & likely worse lurking in that field. Given that re4latively safe assumption, consider the amount of liquid & non-liquid contaminants that have been dumped intentionally or not onto that field. Diesel, Gas, Oil is most obvious but there is worse...
It only take One Litre (1/3rd of a gallon) to contaminate 1 million litres of water !
IF you make an offer on said property, make sure you have a waiver for contamination and get the ground tested... I have seen absolutely stunning properties rendered useless & uninhabitable because of one bad neighbour & his junk leaking crud into the soil. Trying to deal with these types of folks most often leads to conflict & animosity which can & will make life miserable.
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adakseabee
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2016 08:07pm
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Annoying Weekender,
I would do the following due diligence before buying that property:
1. Contact the Sullivan County Clerk's office to obtain the names of adjacent property owners. Many counties in New York have their real property records online from which names can be obtained. While you are there, check to see what kind of deed the current owner holds. If he bought it from the county at an auction for the previous owner's failure to pay taxes, the deed will most likely be a Quit Claim deed. In any case, you will want to contact a local attorney to ensure you are buying a piece of real estate with a clean bill of health.
2. Contact the Sullivan County Sheriff's office to see if there have been any complaints and/or judgments against not only the person who owns the adjacent property with the junk, but all adjacent property owners. Ask them if there are any troublesome properties in the area, i.e., any with any history of drug issues or other crimes reported.
3. Contact the township office to find out if the current owner is up-to date on property taxes and what are the current tax assessments on the property, both the county tax and the school tax. (In my county in New York, both tax assessments are identical and are paid semi-annually, the county tax is due in the first half of the year, and the school tax is due in the second half of the year).
4. The township office can also advise you of any laws regulating the use of the property, a very important consideration if you plan on building anything. They would also be able to tell you if there is any regulations against storing "junk" that cannot be seen from a public right of way. Remember, what you may consider "junk" may be "treasure" in the eyes of the owner. Is it really worth worrying about it if you really love the property you are considering to buy. If you do buy the property, a long term solution is to plant a screen of a few rows of evergreen trees. In 7 to 10 years his junk will be hidden.
Lastly, many rural folk resent city folk coming into their area and upsetting the apple cart, so to speak. Make friends with the neighbors of whatever property you decide to buy.
Good luck! adakseabee
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AnnoyingWeekender
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2016 08:40pm
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Quoting: MtnDon But what laws are in effect for that location?
Trying to research now! Honestly not finding much, and have been having a lot of trouble getting in touch with the township administration. Hopefully I'll get through to them soon and find out.
Quoting: Steve_S It only take One Litre (1/3rd of a gallon) to contaminate 1 million litres of water !
Holy crap, I didn't even think of that! THANK YOU! Will absolutely discuss that with the real estate lawyer and seller. It's an especially salient point since we will eventually drill the well on the meadow as it's the only portion of the land that a drilling truck could access.
Quoting: adakseabee I would do the following due diligence before buying that property:
1. I've already asked the county, they can tell me who owned it last year (a nearby bungalow colony) but according to the seller's plat map, their parcel was split this year so we're trying to figure out if the colony still owns it or if they sold it or what. The township knows but they aren't answering their phone.
Great point on the tittle. We plan on hiring a real estate attorney to broker the sale for us and I absolutely want to see the title clear before paying anything.
2. Excellent idea, I hadn't thought of that, will do tomorrow.
3. Prop tax is paid and current, I think you can see all NY state prop tax on taxlookup.net
4. Yeah trees are basically our other option beyond trying to buy the ajacent parcel as well after we take possession of the one we want.
And yeah, as per my username, I'm very aware of rolling in as a weekender and making demands and being outraged about X,Y, and Z is not the most graceful approach and trying to make my approaches accordingly.
Thank you everyone for your thoughts and keep them coming, you've given us a lot to consider.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2016 11:30pm
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Could be that the neighbor is storing said junk, could be they left it there because it was easier than the alternative. If you talk to them, they might be tremendously embarrassed about all that stuff they've been meaning to get rid of, or maybe they sort of think they might want to fix that old bus some day (yeah right), or they might not give a hoot and tell you to buzz off. I'd make my buying decision after I found out their disposition. Even if they do reluctantly get rid of it, do you want junk inclined neighbors who resent your desire to 'clean up the neighborhood'?
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2016 08:43am - Edited by: DaveBell
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Annoying Weekender,
Post the road name and any other info.
Like any Lot numbers.
I know my way around online resources.
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AnnoyingWeekender
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2016 03:33pm
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Thank you everyone for your input and DaveBell for your offer of help, but I've just spoken with the township and the junk that was maybe going to be a huge problem is quite possibly now going to be a giant asset.
Turns out, the neighboring parcel was not split and is just unused forest behind belonging to the seasonal bungalow colony. All of the junk - which again includes a large trailer, a dead school bus, and a broken backhoe among other general garbage all belongs to the former property owner who lost it to the county in his tax foreclosure.
The flipper selling it clearly doesn't know this, so we're going to try to buy at a reduced price due to junk, then post in the local paper notice for the old owner to collect it in 30 days or we'll sell/dispose of it ourselves.
The kicker is, I'm pretty sure the old owner is dead. Soooo if this works we can negotiate the land price down due to junk, then turn around and sell some of the junk for a profit. I'm willing to bet the backhoe and trailer even in terrible shape (we didn't inspect) will be worth at least a couple pennies.
We shall see how we go with ground contaimination etc, but things are looking up!
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Bret
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2016 06:47pm
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One man's junk is another man's treasure. Maybe if the backhoe is in decent shape, you can give it away provided the new owner takes all the other stuff with it.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2016 07:08pm
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Old Backhoe's can be worth a small fortune in parts and surprisingly, it takes an awful lot of abuse to kill one... Unlike the latest new JBC / Case ones which fall apart fairly quick.
RE the Trailer: If it is a former RV / Camper... there may be a good propane stove & heater in it... The shell is scrap, most likely 2x2 / 2x3 with fiberglass insulation and ultra cheap panelling. 1 day to properly strip & demo it.... 1 Sawsall & a Large crowbar & Sledge + Hammer and your in demo mode...
The Frame, Blackwater & drinking water tanks may still be good so possible to make a "tiny house trailer" _or_ as many around here have done, stripped them down to steel, painted the frames & put 2x6 decking on and voila, good cargo trailer for hauling wood etc... Nice if it has electric brakes !
ABSOLUTELY Negotiate it down... Good Luck and keep us apprised, I for one am interested & curious to see how this pans out... Fingers Crossed for ya.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2016 11:39pm
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I bid $50 for the backhoe
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AnnoyingWeekender
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2016 09:44am - Edited by: AnnoyingWeekender
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Well if we do end up buying the property, the backhoe (and trailer) will absolutely be up for grabs.
I was also informed in my conversation with the township that the minimum structure size for the property is 900sf (with, of course, full well and septic) which is way WAY larger and more cost than we wanted to build.
The Code officer was very friendly but straightforward. She told me "we want people to build real houses and inject money into our local contractors, suppliers, and property tax base." Which, I get it and I respect that, but that's a lot more house then what we wanted at this point in time.
Apparently it's absolutely not permitted to build any "accessory structures" first without having a primary dwelling and that the assessor would absolutely be checking regularly.
Anyway, we're still considering it because preliminary research is telling me Ulster and Greene counties are even more strict (not to mention far more expensive to buy in and further from home) and perhaps we will be more amenable to building a larger cabin than initially planned eventually.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2016 05:31pm
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Well, 900 Sq is not that big really, a large 1 bed apartment is that size... Trick is "Footprint"... A 450 sq foot Main Floor and a second floor of 450 Sq Feet and there you have 900.
Basements do not count typically, unless it is walk out & with windows etc on a hill... But I would not really call that a basement either.
Regarding the "Code Officer" did she give you the reference by-laws, or rules / regs that state such ? Get it ON PAPER ! Many here can tell you that "unwritten statements" like that without supporting bylaws or whatever mean nothing in reality. Sometimes it is to drive their own agenda's... These requirements & minimums have to be posted somewhere for the public to access... TREAD CAREFULLY and do NOT irritate the Code Officer, Building Inspectors or Planning dept... small town, that is a really bad JuJu ! Just ask where you can find all these by-laws, requirements & amendments etc.... so you can read through them all...
Take everything with a grain of salt and be patient & polite.
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