|
| Author |
Message |
Tucker
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Oct 2014 02:47pm
Reply
Our cabin has deeded access to a small lake and to drive on the access road. Both the waterfront area and the road are part of the same privately owned parcel. Besides ours, there are about 20 other properties at the end of this dirt road, about 8-10 of which see semi-regular use. All have the same access rights. It's about 2 kms out on the road until it becomes a gravel township road (still no winter maintenance). At this spot, there are two "private road" and "no trespassing" signs. Despite this, intruders regularly come in to the cottage area (which is a dead end) to poke around. Most are probably locals who think of the place as their backyard. While we've been spared so far, neighbours have lost dirt bikes, batteries, tools, and suffered broken windows and other vandalism. In the 70s there was a formal cottage association, but it has died out and today things are taken care of informally (one neighbour has a brush clearing machine and grader for the road, others mow the common area etc.) But the active neighbours still want to do something about security. While the signs seem to do nothing, we are considering fake cameras and more signs indicating 24/7 wireless surveillance. But really we want a gate. One guy teaches metal shop and got the kids to build a sturdy gate. But it sits there uninstalled for now. Likely in the spring we will at least set it up and leave it unlocked. Where the signs are, the road cuts along a decent slope and trucks would not be able to drive around it.
The issue with locking the gate is the other property owners, many of which are absentee. We cannot lock the gate as they have a legal right to drive on the road. We don't want to block them if they decided to come up and check on their place - we just want to keep out the riff raff. Does anyone have experience with this kind of thing? Can we ask the township to notify the other property owners via their tax bill that a new locked gate will be installed, and provide them with the access code? The owner of the shared-access parcel is OK with the gate going up, but not locked unless a legal solution to this dilemma is figured out. Any insight appreciated.
|
|
bldginsp
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Oct 2014 03:41pm - Edited by: bldginsp
Reply
There's not any grey area between leaving it open, and locking it and getting consent from all involved. I doubt the county will administer your owners association issues for you, they'll tell you to do it. But the owners names and other addresses are probably public record so the county would have to make that available to you. Sounds like someone has to revive the owners association with all the work and headaches that entails. And, what if one or two or three owners strongly object? Unless they all signed some sort of road use agreement when they bought their property, rather than just the easement alone, you don't have any authority to create a new policy and a locked gate could be perceived as a violation of the right of use according to the easement.
My experience with road maintenance agreements is that there is never any agreement, and sometimes disagreements lead to contentious arguments. Maybe I should be a little more optimistic about human nature.
|
|
MtnDon
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Oct 2014 04:15pm - Edited by: MtnDon
Reply
Quoting: bldginsp But the owners names and other addresses are probably public record ....
Remove the word probably. Names and addresses are public record. Period. I would go down to the county offices and find a clerk who can assist with looking them up. Some places have this available online as well.
Once the names are known I would try mailing a letter to notify all the others of the idea of a gate and the reasoning behind the idea of a gate. Maybe certified delivery so you know it was received. My personal opinion is that absentee owners should be willing to permit a gate and lock installation. Approach by selling the idea of better security for the properties. Make the offer sweeter by absorbing the cost of installation between the few owners who have come up with the idea, rather than sending a request for the absentees to fork over money. IMO.
A nice solid combination lock removes the need for distributing keys. We and our neighbor share a road / gate and one that can have the code reset with a provided tool.
Maybe also research the original HOA and whether or not it was just slowly abandoned unofficially or whether it was officially disbanded. There may still be legal powers in the original agreement. Did you receive a copy of the bylaws of the old HOA when you bought? Unused does not necessarily mean there are no teeth there. But it will be a civil matter not a matter the county will likely give much support to. But you'd have to ask.
If the county there does as thorough a job as ours did when property was sub divided there should be notes in the county records. Ours simply states the the owners of the parcels are responsible between themselves for maintenance.
|
|
Don_P
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Oct 2014 07:28pm
Reply
I've built in a neighborhood that did this. The gate is automatic with a keypad, owners have a transmitter similar to a garage door opener. Each owner has a gate code, there is one for contractors that is changed relatively frequently and there is a code that police/fire/rescue use. You do need to clear it through the local authorities, this county did have a zoning ordinance against subdivision gates but allowed it due to the same problems you have had. I will agree that subdivision maintenance/HOA's is like herding cats, sometimes very large cats  .
|
|
Tucker
Member
|
# Posted: 31 Oct 2014 03:40pm
Reply
Thanks for the responses. I don't think the original association was a legal entity. But, I will check and see what documents the township or county have on file. I will go by the offices to obtain the other owners contact info. It sounds like prior permission from all parties is going to be needed to get this locked gate up. I don't think this will be easy to obtain - not that the other owners would object, I mean, why - as mentioned, this would improve the security of their land - but more just because they are absentee owners who probably can't be bothered to even answer. Some of the cabins have basically been left to rot (sad) and the taxes are cheap enough ($300 ish) that the owners probably just pay it and forget it. A letter to all, explaining why we want a gate, seek permission, and even a gentle prodding to either use or sell their parcels sounds like the next step. I'll also talk to the relevant people at the township to see what they have to say. Might also have a conversation with the real estate lawyer who set up our purchase. In an ideal world, the easement lands owner gives permission to install a locked gate and the township agrees to notify the landowners via their tax package. But that is probably wishful thinking.
|
|
bldginsp
Member
|
# Posted: 31 Oct 2014 06:32pm
Reply
You've just become an HOA manager. Buy three bottles of aspirin and some morphine if you can find it. You'll need it.
Would an unlocked but closed gate serve as a deterent? I wonder. Where I am I have seen heavy steel gates with the lock hasps ripped off by some kind of extreme mechanical action, and I've heard of unwanted gates literally pulled out of the ground. Locks and gates keep honest people honest or give dishonest people a challenge to overcome.
|
|
toyota_mdt_tech
Member
|
# Posted: 1 Nov 2014 01:21am
Reply
Who is also responsible for the maintenance of the road? Is this the residence, or state/county? Will they have access, if not, then the land owners I think would have to take care of it, physically or financially???? More questions.
|
|
Tucker
Member
|
# Posted: 3 Nov 2014 03:10pm
Reply
Thanks for the comments. We're hoping an unlocked gate would at least serve as a mild deterrent. Potential intruders would at least see that the place is being kept up somewhat. If they left the gate open, rightful owners would know someone is in there, and if they closed it, they'd have an obstacle on their way out if, say, they tried to flee if someone was around after all and tried to confront them.
The gate would be on private land - this landowner's parcel includes the roadway which all 20 or so property owners have legal right to drive on as per their title deed. There is no maintenance agreement right now (I still need to check how "formalized" the old cottage association was). Technically, I think it would be up to the owner to maintain the road, but there is nothing forcing him to. Thus, he allows the other property owners to keep things maintained by cutting fallen trees and trimming brush on an as-needed basis at their own expense. The gate is built and ready to be installed, just some manpower and cement is needed to get it in. If we can figure out the legalities around locking it, just need to buy the lock. So financial considerations aren't the major stumbling block. Responsibilities for maintenance and whatnot are a bigger issue.
|
|
|
bobrok
Member
|
# Posted: 3 Nov 2014 04:13pm - Edited by: bobrok
Reply
Quoting: Tucker We're hoping an unlocked gate would at least serve as a mild deterrent.
Did NOT work at all this summer on our road. Couple of college kids, guy and a girl, hauling fishing poles and nets "looking for state land" which they (correctly) knew was behind us.
However, the opened gate (with the No trespassing/patrolled signs which they claim not to have noticed) and the logging operations and resulting noise which were in plenty of evidence all around them did nothing to prevent them from parking their truck in full view in a clearing off the road and ambling down towards us "looking for that state land".
They couldn't have cared less, so I'm saying don't get your hopes too high on an open gate. Its just an invitation IMO.
Sorry to be pessimistic, but I was after this.
|
|
|
