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Jerry
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2014 01:12pm
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Hi all.
I've got a question about river current and possibilities of altering it to form a pool and sand beach in front of my cabin. Let me say at the beginning that I know this might not be allowed by laws, but I'm just in the winter daydreaming stage, so here's the question.
The river in front of my cabin has a gravel/sandy bottom and numerous boulders of all sizes. I'm located near where it begins to widen and slow just before entering the lake. When it enters the lake the current swirls around and swings to the right where it drops a lot of sand forming great swimming beaches. If it were allowed by the laws, I'm wondering what I'd have to create in the way of an upstream dam of boulders to get some of that sand to swirl around and end up on my beach? I'm thinking of a row of boulders extending out from my side of the river, and maybe hooking as it extends out from the shore.
I'm thinking some of you must observe some such naturally occurring situations in your areas, so if you do, please give me some ideas that I can think about. My ultimate dream would be have some of the water current actually slow down and reverse on itself in front of my place, thereby creating a sand beach and better docking situation for my boat.
Thanks for your help.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2014 01:42pm
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In Ontario it's a no no , that been said I have seen lots of swimming holes created by digging out a hole in the river bed and placing the rocks down stream . I not sure if that would work for you . Usually done by hand so as not to attract attention .
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2014 04:25pm
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Daydreaming can be fun. I do it too.
I seriously doubt you could get away with such a thing unless you were in the middle of nowhere, had no neighbors for miles, etc. Even then who know what a future aerial survey might bring.
Then there is the "law of unintended consequences". When it comes to water there is always some consequence paid in some form or another when we mess with running / moving water. Dams silt up. Water undercuts poured concrete. Banks cave in. And so on.
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Jerry
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2014 05:00pm
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Just and MtnDon,
Thanks for the input. It's hard to describe my specific situation, but I was thinking more of just some rearranging of boulders, all below normal water level, and nothing permanent like poured concrete, etc. I've known this property for years before I bought it, and one year when the water was low, I watched the owner moving boulders in the riverbed with his tractor and small dozer. He created the boulder free waterway I have now. I wish he would have done more, but if I remember right he got stuck in the soft bottom. That was 20 years ago and the rules are different today.
Thinking about the old days, reminds me of a friend of mine who built a deer shack just across a small, but deep wetlands from the county road. There was a state conservation department gravel pit not far away and one weekend he noticed a front end loader parked in the pit. He checked it out and the keys were in it, so he started it up, hauled many loads of gravel to his site and filled in the wetlands to create a driveway. Some days later he was at the shack and got a visit from a conservation officer who tracked him down (literally). Long story short - they made him pay for the gravel he took, and that's it. Wouldn't happen today.
Thanks again.
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spoofer
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2014 07:05pm
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can't alter a waterway in NY state for any reason. can't even use one to run a small turbine for electricity
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2014 03:57pm
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In Santa Cruz, Calif, there is a yacht harbor on the ocean. They built a jetty with the express purpose of keeping sand out of the harbor mouth. The result was that the current did the opposite, and regularly dumps sand right there, requiring a huge dredging operation in almost continuous use, costing 1 million a year. The sand causes a large wave to form, which the surfers like, and they call it the million dollar wave.
Law of unintended consequences. Even if the law did allow, I wonder how you could configure boulders to get your intended result.
If it is illegal, I bet the fines are huge.
Careful what you ask for, you might just get it.
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Jim in NB
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2014 07:20am
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Years ago I got involved in stream restoration projects with Dept of Fisheries and Oceans here in the Maritimes. They went to streams that had been significantly negatively impacted by man - lots of causes - and were restoring them. You probably can find info on line about the process thru google. The basic premise was to restore the natural pattern to the watercourses which is pool, run, riffle. As a general rule of thumb that pattern repeats itself a distance down the watercourse every three times the stream's width. Narrower rivers obviously have shorter distances between pools. I am not sure of the whole process of this discovery unfolded, but it started with the US Engr Corp of Engineers and their work on the Mississippi River. They came to the realization that all the dredging etc is pointless unless you work with mother nature. Water is an amazing force - it may not seem that way on a day to day basis looking at a river or a stream, but you have to think of it over the course of a year - spring and fall surges in run offs, big storms, ice, etc, etc. I saw pools created on streams that ranged from 4' wide to 35' wide. In the case of smaller stream logs were placed across the stream at appropriately calculated angles - in the case of the 35' stream we dug in 6' boulders into the stream bed. The changes within a year were amazing. Streams that were for all intensive purposes dead - shallow throughout and warm water - had pools, riffles and runs. The stream bed - rock, sand, etc had sorted it self out and the most amazing thing was that there were pools 5' deep were the water had been less than 1' deep! And the streams again meandered - the pile up of finer material on the banks was amazing too and was part of the process of the stream sorting itself out. The trout loved it! So it is possible however it is scientific - if you don't do it properly you will create a lot of issues. And then there is permitting. If you did that without a permit in Canada you would be charged and taken to court! And there would be no defense that would save your butt! You may want to check with your state or provincial wildlife branch or in Canada Dept of Fisheries and Oceans - don't have a clue who would be the national authority for something like this in the US. I have some pics at work and if I remember I will post some. The lesson I learned from this work is that you have to work with water not against it. It will eventually take back anything that doesn't fit into it's natural system and is evident during most springs of the year!
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Jim in NB
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2014 07:46am
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The picture is one of the sites we worked on - satellite imagery is not great but you can make some of the stuff in the stream out. Prior to the work we did this stream was absolutely straight and only six inches deep. You can see that the meander is coming back and a "beach" of sorts was formed a little down stream of the rock sill and pool that was created. We used a tracked excavator, bulldozers and ten tonne dump trucks to do this work. Pretty amazing the power of water! But know you must work with it and if you try and control it you will get nothing but grief!
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neb
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2014 08:41am
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Jim NB Very interesting info and I do agree with you have to work with the water system if not all you will have is grief. You don't want to get caught around here altering a river or creek or you will be up the creek! If done legal and done right it can make a big differance.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2014 09:50am
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When Egypt built the Aswan Dam upriver in the Nile, their intent was to produce electricity and produce reliable agricultural water. But the rock under the lake that was formed was more porous than they thought, so it doesn't collect as much water as anticipated and they can't produce as much electricity as planned. The long term effects of the absence of flooding around the lower Nile is not yet known, but the flooding used to bring a lot of nutrients to the soil.
Dams always sound like a great idea, then reality sets in. But Jim in NB's example is amazing- something humans did that worked!
Best laid plans of mice and men
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Jim in NB
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# Posted: 8 Feb 2014 03:45pm
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I think the key was that the biologists looked at natural processes and worked with it and reintroduced it. The thing that amazed me was the pools created right behind either the logs or rock walls - the water flowing over it created the pools - pretty amazing to see a 5' deep pool within a year caused by water dropping 6". Working with nature rather than trying to control it gives such good results - worth thinking that way when it come to building too.
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Dekagoldwingers
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# Posted: 10 Feb 2014 10:46pm
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In our area a large river had been altered over the years by highway construction which was built by dumping large rock along the shoreline of the river. The result was increased speed of current along the shoreline, scouring of silt and reduction of fish habitat. The DFO required the building of wing dams along the river where the rock fill had been placed. These wing dams project out about 150' and are constructed of heavy rock as wide as a single road bed about 6' above high water. In 10 years the wing dams have all created sand bars downstream, they are about 1/2 km apart. The sandbars are now all populated with eelgrass and absolutely full of geese and ducks. Apparently the eelgrass is important rearing ground for small salmonid fry.
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Jim in NB
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# Posted: 14 Feb 2014 10:40am
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Some pics of the stream shown in the previous satelite image during installation of the rocks and the year after. It was a pretty amazing transformation!
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