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kanesta
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2013 11:45pm
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So, I am looking at a property that is in a non-organized territory. It's on a river, on a small area of private land between a ZEC (in Quebec) and a park.
This property is beautiful, it's not big but it has no neighbours -- I want something that feels wild and isolated, but I can't afford lots and lots of acreage. Land sure is expensive in most of Quebec! This one is 2.5 acres - about 180 deep with 60 metres riverfront. It already has an access road and a clearing.
The owner says that if I bought it I would have to pay a one-time "development tax" to the regional council municipality - over $3000! This is apparently because the land has never had a chalet or anything on it -- these pieces of land changed hands and came ultimately from a hunting club. I've never heard of such a thing and can't find much info online. The owner says that if I bought it and the tax is paid then the arpenteur (not sure who this is in English) will send the cadastre to the ministry to register the cadastre. This is of course necessary to obtain a building permit.
I want to go see it and was thinking of making an offer, but I am a little intimidated by all this. I wanted to do a title check before buying it. But it seems hard if there is no cadastre number. This screws up the order of the steps I had imagined. Is this tax normal? How can I check out this story to make sure the title is clear? What else would I ask.
Please give me some advice! I am so ignorant of the whole process so it's hard for me to recognize red flags.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2013 12:25am - Edited by: bldginsp
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Have you considered seeing a local lawyer? Trouble with real estate agents is they are not motivated to tell you anything negative, since they profit from the sale. Lawyers are costly but are motivated to help you. One with a lot of experience in your area will know the potential problems. I would never buy a property without an accurate title check at least.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2013 01:06am - Edited by: MtnDon
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I second the lawyer advice. Also keep in mind that QC has it's own and quite different laws from the rest of Canada and most of the USA. Most of the rest of us in Canada and the USA will have no idea of how the QC systems work. Not to mention that property titles are handled very differently in the USA and Anglophile Canada. Check with a local QC lawyer and make it one that specializes in real estate.
arpenteur = land surveyor ??? maybe ???
cadastre = land registry office
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razmichael
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2013 07:40am
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I'm going to third the 'get a lawyer' approach as you should have one anyway - generally a good investment in case anything goes wrong later on. How about talking with the municipality and asking them about the $3k fee. I've just finished spending three years getting land sorted out in Quebec. Although much of this was related to wills and ownership issues, at the same time Quebec is going through an intense drive to get all land properly surveyed and registered (hence the need to get a surveyor involved and then registration (Cadestre). It is possible that the $3k fee is a set amount and the municipality then proceeds to obtain the surveyor and do the cadestre work but you need to talk with the municipality to find out what it is for. Then a lawyer may be able to tell you if it is something you can do yourself (hire the surveyor etc). Make sure you are sitting down when you ask a surveyor how much it will cost!.
What part of Quebec are you in? I'm near Maniwaki.
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kanesta
Member
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2013 09:51pm
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Okay I was able to finally find the right person to talk to at the MRC. They said it was a fee in proportion to your land for the first time it is developed and built. The owner would have to have a surveyor come in and make a full survey for a "permis de lotissement" to be given, which is in turn necessary for a building permit. We'll see because I bet nobody is doing any work like that until the spring.
I will have to find a lawyer to figure out how this works but of course that is $$$ also so I'd better be sure about the property.
Thanks again guys for your advice! ;)
@Michael - I'm in Montreal, and I'm looking in Lanaudière and Mauricie mostly.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2013 10:29pm
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To make best use of the lawyer, do all the research you can ahead of time so you think you know how it all works. Then you can ask the right questions instead of dumb ones, and the lawyer will confirm what you know and tell you what you don't. Walking into a professionals office with no knowledge is expensive kindergarten.
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kanesta
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2014 11:39pm
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Okay, so the lawyer (notary) says everything looks normal. The surveyor had already completed the survey but they never did the registration with the ministry. So now he is going to do that. Once that is done, the notary can complete the title history investigation.
I think this may be the one!
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kanesta
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jan 2014 11:40pm
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Thank you guys for the advice, you were exactly right.
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razmichael
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jan 2014 07:03am
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Glad things are coming together for you. I'm still curious about the $3k development fee - if the survey has already been done does this fee come down or does this cover the survey and registration (assuming the surveyor did the survey for the municipality)? Just curious.
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kanesta
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jan 2014 09:42am
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It is for the registration (lotissement) - it goes to the MRC (county). It's calculated in proportion to the size of the land, they told me.
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Rossman
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# Posted: 8 Jan 2014 12:27pm
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Yeah here in Ontario those development fees can range quite a lot.
In our area it's $2500. In Muskoka it's $10,000 or possibly more...
Good thing to check for when looking for land to build on!
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