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Aqua
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 06:29pm
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My understanding is if you build under 100 sq ft (or magic number of 200 in some states), you can build anything without permits or inspections? I know some states have other restrictions like anything with a permanent foundation needs a permit. So we legally build what we want, but can we live there?
I read the P&Z ordinances, but what other laws do we need to check into? Is there a law that a sleeping room needs a minimum size window, or is that for insurance only? Isn't there a law that you can't live in a building without a working septic tank? Can you live in a building with zero plumbing? With no electric? Some Amish people still live that way, but do they have any special treatment and exemptions? No law against an adult living in so little sq footage?
I think the health department could find some loophole to force us out. If the county or state found out, can they fine you or just make you move out?
I read some states say you can't live in your cabin more than 30-60 days a year. Nobody thinks they can prove it? What if they had a neighbor or ex-friend for a witness?
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sparky1
Member
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 08:45pm
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I found this
general terms
http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/www/html/248-what-is-an-occupancy-permit.asp
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 09:17pm
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In NM the figure for a no permit building is 120 sq ft set by the state. Local governments usually follow along. The wording is "One story detached accessory buildings used as tool and storage sheds, playhouses, and similar uses, provided the floor area does not exceed 120 square feet.". That description pretty much rules out the ability to live in the building, IMO.
Our local P&Z laws permit the construction of an accessory building larger than the 120 sq ft, but requires a building permit. Kitchen facilities are not allowed in such building. Living quarters in such building are permitted to have washroom/toilet facilities, but are not required to. The main building must have kitchen and toilet plumbing. Not sure if a bathtub is listed as required.
IF the structure comes under the rules of a building permit and if the local authority follows a code such as the IRC, then there are size minimums for most rooms. Bedrooms must then have a certain minimum size of clear area for emergency egress. that makes some sense too when you think about being trapped in a room with a too small window, a fire raging on the other side of the door. Not all rules in the IRC are stupid, IMO.
There are minimums for spacing of bathroom fixtures, mostly aimed at ease of use and not having the door slam into someone sitting on the toilet ot at the sink.
I believe most places that do not have municipal sewage systems will need a septic permit before the building can be started. There are some exceptions; some areas of NM can easily get a permit for a privy/outhouse. $50 one time fee and a drawing showing the property lines, privy location, any wells and structures is all that is needed. We have friends with a legal privy located on 15 acres of undeveloped land in the mountains. Other states don't allow privies at all.
If the state or other level of government finds anyone in violation of sanitation rules, structure rules or use rules they can issue an order that can make your life miserable. At the least pay a fine, get permits after the fact, or even remove or tear down.
Some states have special recreational property rules that do limit length of stay. I don't know much more than that and that my state does not offer that sort of exception.
I believe what it comes down to in many cases is, does the local authority bother with enforcing rules. Some do not, but the rules are there nonetheless. Here in NM, if you are lucky enough to be hidden away in the mountains it is possible to build and enjoy a cabin. Some counties don't even get their shorts in a knot as long as you get the state sanitation (septic) permit and don't bother about the building permit. They asses the property as having a house for tax purposes, but that's all they worry about. Technically the state should be enforcing the IRC building code requirements but there's no manpower for going and looking for people in violation. A cranky neighbor can shift the gears of government intervention into motion though. The government pretty much always feels obligated to follow up on complaints by other nearby property owners.
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Aqua
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 09:28pm
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It's as bad as I thought. I agree most of the rules make sense for safety. Some are inconvenient and bothersome.
Does anyone know if they are allowed to legally re-inspect or investigate? If they had a suspicious neighbor complain? Say you got the permit and passed all inspections. Then you rip out the bathtub and toilet, and put a composting toilet or none (you go outside), install a kitchen (in MtnDon's state, it's not allowed), and many other changes.
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PA_Bound
Member
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 10:07pm
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In most locations, just about any renovation requires additional permits. This gives them full authority to come re-inspect- or issue a stop work order if you don't have the correct permits.
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Aqua
Member
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 10:12pm
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Uh huh. I mean if you're changing the inside only, discreetly. They could accuse you of doing renovations without a permit, but without proof, I wonder if you have to let them look?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Mar 2012 11:53pm
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Where I am interior and exterior renovation permits are usually not required unless the project gets into the structure. Enlarging a window would need a permit if the window is being made wider, not just taller, but if the window was being changed for same size or made smaller no permit.
Plumbing and electrical changes usually call for a permit unless it is just a matter of changing a fixture. When I enlarged a bathroom by making a half hexagon bump out in an exterior wall, I got framing, electrical and plumbing permits. When I gutted an interior bathroom, replaced and switched a tub and toilet I never bothered as the work was all hidden indoors. Technically that should have had a plumbing permit as the DWV piping and supply piping was re-routed.
Again every place can have their own rules; some well written, some poorly written and open to too much interpretation, and others plainly meant to collect permit fees.
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