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Jay Bjorn
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# Posted: 5 Mar 2012 03:40pm
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Im building a cabin in Washington State. I purchased the land and decided to build a 10'x12' storage shed with no permit for now. You cannot see the structure from the road. Completly off the grid. Lots of effort and good materials went into the build. I went with the 10x12 layout with a loft.
The lot is a quarter acre and is near a avalanche zone. My friend owns a large cabin next door he built in the 70's. There used to be a cabin on my lot in 1972 but was moved (1975) after they found out about the avalanche danger. A huge avalanche came down and took out a few cabins and there were deaths. The enitre hillside was clear cut the summer before the incident. There was a 30 foot snow pack and no trees to hold the snow.
Then the fight started in court state vs. the developer on liability, the developer lost because the State came up with proof that they warned the developer. The lot I purchased was not hit by any avalanche but the original owner took the developers offer given the possibility, and relocated on their expense. Since then the trees have gotten 40 years of growth, and no major slides. My lot is 80% unusable and 20% usable because of the slide zone according to property taxes. There are 40 cabins in the development. In the winter everyone unpacks thier cars and stores their snowmobiles right in front of my property on the main road .
The last 10 weeks I worked very hard and got the build 80% done. Yesterday I dicovered a "STOP WORK ORDER NO PERMIT" from the building department. 3 weeks ago a neighbor who owns a cabin 1000ft away asked me what I was doing, I told him everything and was nice. Im pretty sure that hes the one that turned me in. I need help to back up my argument when talking to the building department. Thanks
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 5 Mar 2012 03:46pm
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bummer...can you just apply for the permit/pay for the permit and pay any fine you are assessed for forging ahead w/o the permit and move on??? Hopefully this is all it will take. Good luck to you!
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soundandfurycabin
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# Posted: 5 Mar 2012 04:13pm
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First find out, if you don't know already, what you are allowed to do and what you aren't. Do you require a permit to build a 10x12 shed? Is a shed allowed with no principle building? Is a geotechnical assessment required before building anything? Does the stop work order indicate which specific bylaws you are allegedly breaking?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 5 Mar 2012 04:48pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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All of the above.
Quoting: Jay Bjorn build a 10'x12' storage shed with no permit for now
Sounds like you knew a permit of some sort was required to be a legal build. Fully research what would be allowed by to meet zoning laws and what sort of permits would be needed to do what you are building. Ideally you already searched out all that back before you became the property owner.
If luck is with you all the local authority having jurisdiction will want is to fine you and ensure that the build is up to whatever laws and codes are pertinent to the property, as well as collect all the fees the laws entitle them to.
In a way you can't blame the neighbors, if they have paid their pound of flesh and obtained all the legal permits and you did not.
Not to appear callous, or to appear to be all in favor of all rules, because I am not, but we should all remember that if we decide to disregard any law we place ourselves in jeopardy of the consequences.
I don't like the 40 mph speed limit on some sections of highway up to our mountain property. If I choose to drive 50 I know I could get ticketed. No one's fault but my own if that happens. And I know it would cost me at least $74 for up to 10 mph over. More for more. I can't get out of the penalty just because I don't like it. Same thing applies to land use issues.
G/L. Let us know how this turns out as it could be useful info for others. Thanks.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 5 Mar 2012 05:42pm
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Some good points brought up, I will add just a thought of mine. Where I am there is also the "no permit" shed allowed (no permit CABIN not allowed) . BUT, I still had to make a sketch with dimensions , intentions of use (storage of course) etc...and mail it to the building inspector. This is really done for the assessors , but was required, even though no actual permit needed to be issued. It is possible your situation is as simple as that, I know if I didn't mail them the sketch they would have the right to stop my build as well.
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vandersysml
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# Posted: 5 Mar 2012 06:57pm
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It's things like this that made me want to build my cabin in a very isolated area with a "who-cares" attitude. It's bad enough that strict codes and neighborhood associations rule the cities, but for a 10 X 12 cabin out in the country? I'm sorry that you're in this position. It enrages me reading about this, I can't imagine how you feel. Good luck. Maybe it's time for a cabin-owner rebellion  We could throw some tea in a harbor or something.
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Nirky
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# Posted: 5 Mar 2012 08:38pm
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Quoting: MtnDon you can't blame the neighbors
I wish you the best with the building department, it will be resolved soon though. The real negative here is you will probably have this person as a neighbor for a long time. Maybe consider relocating if feasible to reduce long-term stress?
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2012 05:54am
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Quoting: Jay Bjorn 3 weeks ago a neighbor who owns a cabin 1000ft away asked me what I was doing, I told him everything and was nice. Im pretty sure that hes the one that turned me in
with neighbors like this who needs ememies!!!!!!!!
people should MIND their own business!!!!!
hope you get it worked out!!!!!
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spicyacres
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2012 09:08am
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Years back I was building a detached garage without a permit. One day I had a delivery of lumber from a local lumber company, the driver seems overly curious about what I was doing and asked if I had a permit. Can't remember what I told him, but out of the blue that very same afternoon the town's building inspector comes walzing by! Coincidence? Don't think so. It was obvious that the inspector had some sort of "arrangement" with the lumber delivery guy to snoop out construction sites without permits, probably earning him a "finder's fee." It was diabolical. The moral of the story is obvious.
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AYP1909
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# Posted: 7 Mar 2012 12:28pm
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Quoting: MtnDon In a way you can't blame the neighbors, if they have paid their pound of flesh and obtained all the legal permits and you did not.
Well said, MtnDon.
The building codes, permitting and enforcement have not been created to generate revenue for the local jurisdiction. There are real life and safety issues behind these regulations and compliance with the laws are not difficult and, in most cases, reasonable.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 15 Mar 2012 06:41pm
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If its a 10X12 and used for storage, no permit may be needed. What do you have in the way fo a foundation? If its permanent,then you will need a permit, even if its under and a toolshed. If its woodel floor on the ground, then you shouldnt have to get a mermit. They even upped that size in many areas to 200 sq feet now, was 120 years ago.
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DaJTCHA
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jun 2012 07:46pm
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Our area allows up to 1000 square feet without a permit just as long as it isn't inhabited or used for commercial gain. I couldn't believe it, so I called back and had them restate that they said 1000 square and not 100! LOL! So, we've got a very large "shed" without heating, plumbing or electric. Sounds like a shed to me!
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TomChum
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2012 05:36pm
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Quoting: AYP1909 There are real life and safety issues behind these regulations and compliance with the laws are not difficult and, in most cases, reasonable.
Many of the issues are NOT life & safety related. Some are basically to prevent dwellings used for "subsistence living". For example if you want a 12x16 and no inside bathroom, but the minimum size is 320 sq ft, then compliance will be 'difficult'.
Does anyone know if municipalities have a "minimum size dwelling" that can be permitted?
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stel
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2012 09:08pm
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DaJTCHA........
what area r u in??
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AYP1909
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2012 01:37pm
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Quoting: TomChum Many of the issues are NOT life & safety related. Some are basically to prevent dwellings used for "subsistence living". For example if you want a 12x16 and no inside bathroom, but the minimum size is 320 sq ft, then compliance will be 'difficult'.
TomChum: These are zoning issues and should not be confused with building codes.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2012 02:23pm - Edited by: TomChum
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Agreed. Original post refers to zoning issues regarding a (presumably) well-built structure.
I wish there was "oversize" zoning sometimes. My worst fear is a McMansion popping up as I'm driving to my little place in the woods.
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spelk1
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2012 03:28pm
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Tom in my cabin area in Saskatchewan the minimum size dwelling permitted by the municipality is 800 Sq Ft. No shed or other building is allowed to be constructed on the property until such time as the foundation work has commenced on the cabin. They also recently introduced a bylaw that camper trailers are only allowed on-site during construction and once construction is completed they must be removed or placed in an 'area as shown on the development plan'. Believe it or not, we chose to buy here because they have one of the more lax development policies in the province. We checked out lots on other lakes and some even had architecual controls in place!
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TomChum
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2012 03:42pm - Edited by: TomChum
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I'm not against rules, per se. But "permitted use" doesn't mean it's all good. I don't like driving past shacks with junk cars but they look better to me than than McMansions & mini-marts.
Unless the junk cars are 1950s or older then they look good. Thats the zoning I'd propose. 
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DaJTCHA
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2012 03:50pm
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Stel-
Forest County, Pa.
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AYP1909
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2012 03:21pm
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Quoting: TomChum Unless the junk cars are 1950s or older then they look good. Thats the zoning I'd propose.
That's good zoning.
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CAPTAIN WINEHEAD
Member
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# Posted: 3 Dec 2012 06:32pm
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In our area ALL structures, regardless of size, require a permit. Even 10 x 10 can only be built AFTER permit for principal residence is issued. Call first and save lots of money and hassles!
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groingo
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 11:51am
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Am in Washington too: Depending on the county a building that small wouldn't need a permit as long as it is just used for storage, has skids or blocks so it could be moved but when you tell them you're living in it that opens the door because shed specs are very different from a living space. It all depends on what the county building regulations are.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 06:36pm
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Curious as to the outcome of this?
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anonys
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# Posted: 16 Dec 2012 08:07pm
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Well. A quarter acre is high density for skipping
Permits. Govt does not care about safety but
Care about being sued. Someone squealed
And so they can't plead ignorance
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burtonridr
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2013 01:15pm
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This is why I didnt buy land in WA and moved to ID... Sorry to hear about the trouble.
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