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Linette
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2011 06:49pm
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I am 1 acre of land in Ontario cottage country. There are a few neighbors around there. What I want is a very small cabin that would mainly be used in the summer/fall (as an alternate to camping). I understand we could build a 10x10 "bunkie". I'm not entirely clear if this is fine since it is our land or if we need to get some type of OK since there are neighbors.
However, my true dream would be a little cabin (rather than a 10x10 bunkie) where we could hang out on some winter weekends. I understand we would need a permit. I'm not entirely sure why it is negative to need to get a permit (other than the expense)? I sense it must be a big headache. Would we need the neighbors to agree to our plans? Not sure how thrilled they would be with a 10x10 bunkie either. :| But it is my land and I'd like to be able to use it. Right now there is nothing on it.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2011 07:06pm
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Check with the local zoning and building permit officials. I imagine there will be rules similar to the locations in the USA that I am familiar with. They will be the ones with all the details on what reuires a permit and what does not. The neighbors don't usually have any legal say in the matter unless there are HOA covenants in effect as well.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2011 07:07pm - Edited by: TomChum
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If you can hide the 10x10 bunkie, put that up asap. Then get to know your neighbors, and over time, you will learn whether you need to go down the permit path. You will also learn what is the minimum size cabin you need, and whether that is below the minimum cabin size for a permit in your area. Neighbors may not have a legal say, but they can pester the county (and you) if they don't like your bunkie. I think this is pretty unlikely, but then again I haven't met your neighbors.
Some basic challenges with getting a permit are the cost, the effort, and constraints to what you want to do. They may require you to get a well in, and septic system permitted prior to the building permit. If you have the time, patience, money, and are willing to live with what they permit, then by all means the permit path is the best way to go. For you and your neighbors too, and your land will be worth more.
If you do decide to build a real cabin, you'll have the 10x10 as a guest cabin, or storage. But in any case the sooner you have the 10x10; the sooner you will start to enjoy your land, and be able to make better decisions about what its like to be there. That's what I would do.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2011 07:23pm
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Welcome! Well, getting a permit depends on many things... will your neighbors turn you in for building a larger place? Are you planning on reselling the place one day? Are you prepared to deal with the extra expenses and hassles that the local municipality will create?
A little research would be in order, first to ask your neighbors their opinions ( you can do this discretely). Go down to city hall and run your ideas past them (generally, not the specific location)
Then check your options; can you build 2 10 x 10's and connect them with a deck and roof? It is definitely not your neighbors business what you do legally on your property! So build a 10 x 10 to start and go from there.
I had a similar situation in the desert. Some 5 acre lots with a few neighbors. After checking with the city, I would have been required to a) install a 7000 gallon water tank b) build a 60 ft radius turn around for Fire Trucks (like there's anything to burn in the desert:) and pay $20000 to the local school district. So I'm out like $35000 before I can even get the permit. So I spent a year talking to the folks around there. I found out that no one gets permits, they can't stand the county inspectors and so I went ahead and built (am building) a much larger cabin (600 sq ft)
Anyway, good luck and let us know how it turns out!
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Linette
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2011 11:18pm
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Oh interesting, thanks! That's crazy, Borrego! I can't believe they insist on a turnaround and $ for the school district!!
I have no idea if the neighbors would turn us in. I don't know them at all. But I suspect they won't be overly happy. Our land is kind of in front of theirs (and off to the side). When we went up there recently (the first time in about 5 years) there were paths through our land where they obviously drive. They currently have a private, secluded place and I bet they wouldn't be thrilled with the idea of us spending a lot more time next to them and building something.
However, the land is nice and I would very much like to start enjoying it.
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2011 07:32am
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If your neighbors are used to using your land as their own, then I can pretty much promise you they are going to object to you reclaiming it. If they can make your life difficult, they will with the hope that you will just go away. I would suggest you do your homework before spending any time or money on something that doesn't meet local requirements.
Good luck,
Tom
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bushbunkie
Member
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2011 09:32am
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Hi Linette,
We live in Ontario and have a bunkie up on the Bruce Peninsula.
We had also previously had property in eastern Ontario, and seems most municipalities follow same bylaws. Things are different here then in the US.
Legally, except apparently in unincorporated townships, you cannot build a bunkie period....years ago yes....now no. Some northern communities like Timmins, Cochrane, Thunderbay may be more flexible...but if you live near a city like many, you're not prepared to drive 7 - 10 hours to get to your property. Manitoulin Island is a little lax...but as property gets bought up, they're startng to tighten up too.
You can only build a 100 sq. foot shed, if a preexisting permitted living dwelling already exists on the property and now you also have to build a minimum 1000 sq. ft. dwelling. You can't even build a garage with a living loft over top like you used to.
Municipalities donot want people living on their land without a permited dwelling,which begins with a full septic system...basically they don't want outhouses anymore,because they can contaminate existing water supplies. There has been much discussion in many threads about this.
The comments from the guys in the thread are all good...starting with getting to know your neighbours. Bylaws are usually complaint enforced...so if noone complains, chances are that you can stay under the radar...thats what we did.
Your situation may be a little tricky...although...if neighbours are driving through your land already...you could begin a conversation with the fact that you are happy to let them continue to do this, if no one minds that you put up your bunkie...win/win for both.
Also the suggestion from Borrego to casually check with the municipality, without giving away details of your location is a goood one too. good luck!
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fthurber
Member
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2011 09:35am
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In my neighborhood, we can build up to 10 x 12 without a permit. My first structure was an 8x10 but I realized that this uses almost as much material as 10x12 and almost as much work, so my current cabin project is 10x12.
Find out what the regs are and build the max you can get away with.
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Linette
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2011 09:39am
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I know we can build something 10x10 without a permit, but I don't think it is "to code" to intend to camp in it for the weekend? Isn't it just supposed to be a storage shed? The neighbors would notice if we were staying there for the weekends.
They might be very nice people (I don't know them) but either way I'm sure they won't be thrilled with the idea of a cabin on land next to theirs when they currently have a very private place. But, at the same time, they should have bought my land too if they wanted complete privacy.
Too bad this wasn't 15 years ago when we owned all the land. No neighbors! :)
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2011 12:59pm - Edited by: PA_Bound
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I would recommend that, while you explore the permitting requirements, you attempt to meet your neighbors- ideally in person. You own your land, so you do have every right to be there and enjoy it. They may realize that also.
I recently discovered a really ugly problem with boundary lines between myself and two neighbors. Long story short, it turns out the lot descriptions recorded on all three deeds 30 years ago are inaccurate. I had never spoken to my neighbors before, and both of them had owned their properties for years but didn't actually live there. You can imagine the fears I had while planning how to introduce myself. "Hi, I'm your new neighbor. I'm not trying to take your land, but did you know your property lines are all wrong?". Well,... it turns out they're both very nice people. We're still working out the issue, but they understand the problem and we're all working together to resolve it. I don't know why the human condition causes us to think the worst of people first- but it seems to. But only by reaching out will you learn who you're dealing with.
And they may enjoy having neighbors to talk to occasionally.
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adakseabee
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2011 09:20pm
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I agree wholeheartedly with PA_Bound. I have a great neighbor whose house is about 250 feet from my cabin (but out-of-sight). When 'the admiral' (she who must be obeyed) and I are at our place of heaven on earth, we invite them, and all of their relatives, over for our annual 4th of July celebration along with all of our children and grandchilren we can rustle up for the occasion. When we are not there, he and his family keep an eagle eye on our property and cabin. Good neighbors are a treasure!
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