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bldginsp
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2015 08:58am - Edited by: bldginsp
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Quoting: cabingal3 i dont know much about this but i know that if they let people build with out so much money and hassle-there would probably be alot less homeless people.
I think you've got a point here cabingal. I once knew a guy who was a contractor and did not try to avoid the permit process, and started the process of building an addition to his house for his growing family. By the time he paid all the fees for his permit (city of Santa Cruz, CA) he was broke and could not afford to build the addition.
When the permit process is so costly or difficult that it makes people unable to build, it tempts them to avoid the process altogether, or prevents them. So the thing that was meant to help people starts to hurt them, and hurts those with less money first.
In the affluent area where I work there are plenty of people with enough money to get permits. But now it's so expensive to live in this area that the people who work in the city government can't afford to live here. We are becoming a society of haves and have nots. The have nots are tempted to avoid the process because they cant follow the process, which makes them criminals, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
I don't have a solution, but yesterday at work they had a birthday party and they had blueberry pie with ice cream and I had 2 pieces, totally against my strict diet. Boy it was good. I love the smell of blueberry pie in the office, it smells like.... victory.
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 29 Aug 2015 05:40am
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sorry. i meant across the street when i wrote this below.
on the other hand...right across the road from this state(street) fella is a family whose totally off the grid with no permits on anything...who has had the building inspector come to his door... and is living there still.go figure.
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Sparky McBiff
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2015 01:08pm - Edited by: Sparky McBiff
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In the province where I bought several acres the municipality bureaucracy wanted me to pay $3500 just to get the permits required to tear down two separate old abandoned (for 22 years) insect-eaten, partially collapsed and very unsafe cabins.
That was about 15% of the cost of the land itself. Just to return the land to the natural state by removing the dangerous and ugly old eyesores.
I won't even start with describing the outrageous requirements and costs that I will be subject to if I follow their every tyrannical rule that would be invoked if I dared to think about erecting a small cabin to be used for the occasional fishing outage a few times a year. But it is apparent that to comply with all their demands would cost me more than the actual materials for the small cabin itself.
Heck, according to their rules the building inspector would be required to come by for an inspection at every little point along the way; before the cement pier supports were put in, after they were put in, after the floor was put in, after the framing, the roof support, the roof, the wood stove etc.etc.etc. And you had to pay $50 for each visit.
(There's also a 6 x 6 "shed" around the dug well that is falling apart and if I wanted to merely replace the rotten mdf walls (yes, mdf!) that it was originally made with along with the OSB roof the permit to do so would cost me more than 5X the amount of the materials required!)
When it comes to the small shelter/cabin I want to build, even though I have the money I refuse to pay the tens of thousands of dollars required for the bureaucratic cluster-eff in order to build something that will be used a few weekends a year. I'm either going to do it without permits or just buy a crappy ugly trailer and park it on the land instead, which I absolutely do NOT want to do. (Not to mention the fact that they want me to pay about $1800 for the permit to do that as well).
Oppressive nonsense like this is why people risk doing things without permits.
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2015 01:37pm
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Perhaps you can "Repair" the cabins and just get a "Repair" permit?
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suburbancowboy
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2015 01:51pm
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I faced the same problem myself. but it wasn't as costly as your regulations. If it was me, I would put a cheap pos trailer on the land and fix, build and demolish things slowly over the years. Most people don't notice small changes. You are discovering that the land of the free isn't to free. If you want true freedom move to alaska.
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Sparky McBiff
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2015 02:09pm
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Quoting: Wilbour Perhaps you can "Repair" the cabins and just get a "Repair" permit?
I wish. (And don't worry, I thought about that before an unfortunate "wind storm" came along and removed the offending structures).
However, often once you're on the official radar of some of these little country bureaucratic "I'm just doing my job and following the law" officials then they are going to be coming by regularly (since there's nothing else to do out there) so you might as well call it a day.
It is only now that I understand why when I drive around the various roads, in this somewhat remote area that is frozen for half of the year (in my opinion) why there are so many completely abandoned and run down properties everywhere.
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Wilbour
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2015 02:09pm
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Quoting: Wilbour Perhaps you can "Repair" the cabins and just get a "Repair" permit?
My property had an oversized shed in disrepair. The local building inspector told me it should never have been erected but I could fix it up. As long as I got a repair permit.
I did fix it up leaving the original footprint. I never did get a repair permit for the fact that the little money it would have brought into the town would have been offset by the time the locals would have had to spend on paperwork.
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Sparky McBiff
Member
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2015 02:58pm - Edited by: Sparky McBiff
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Quoting: suburbancowboy You are discovering that the land of the free isn't to free.
Actually I'm in Canada.
But here while the majority of us were distracted by snickering (politely mind you) at the endless "Land of the Free" propaganda that Americans were endlessly subjected to (and believed) the UN's Agenda 21 (the "pack em and stack em" doctrine) crept up behind us all with the ultimate goal of eventually removing all of our individual property rights under the buzzword of "sustainability".
I truly believe that this is the underlying catalyst for the increasingly restrictive regulations that are making it difficult for anyone to get "off grid" and to be left alone from the control apparatus.
Quoting: suburbancowboy If you want true freedom move to alaska.
There is only somewhat more "freedom" in Alaska only when you compare it to the rest of the USSA empire. But when it comes down to it you are just fleeing from the center of the police state to a more remote corner where you are less harassed. (for the time being that is).
However there is a whole different world out there where you can find places that we can live where we are not subjected to living under such servitude and oppressive laws. Especially when it comes to property rights and especially property taxes.
Sure every country/location/place has their own individual issues but there are a world of alternatives other than feeling that you have to retreat to a frozen wasteland in order to lessen the government oppression. (And yes, I've been to Alaska before and I know it is not a frozen wasteland, at least not for a part of the year).
For many years now I've been spending my winters living in various other countries (from Asia to Central America) and when you have that kind of perspective it makes it very hard to put up with the bureaucratic nonsense that is going on here with respect to things like property taxes, endless permits and otherwise constant government intrusion on every tiny aspect of your life.
That said, I may very well end up doing what you have suggested, in that I slowly do things under the radar and hope that nobody notices and that I don't come under the eyes of the local gestapo.
However, my life on this planet is short and I absolutely despise having to cower under unelected overlords that are motivated by a paycheck and some imagined power over the populace who will not let me live on my own in the wilderness as I see fit.
Especially for merely wanting a tiny place where I only want to spend a few weekends a year in the summer when I want to go fishing.
I'm about to bail.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2015 04:27pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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My/our experience with the process was excellent. I suppose it all depends how how you decide to look at things in life......
Had to edit to add:DH's family were the pioneers in our cabin area. We are not"outsiders"(that's what they call them up there). Doing things under the radar and being a newbie in a community is not going to be in your favor. It's a perfect way to get a bad reputation forever!
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2015 05:16pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: Wilbour I did fix it up leaving the original footprint. I never did get a repair permit for the fact that the little money it would have brought into the town would have been offset by the time the locals would have had to spend on paperwork.
Hey, if the inspector comes by and says it looks like you repaired the shed, just explain "its amazing what a little fresh paint will do to a rotting structure". 
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bldginsp
Member
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# Posted: 30 Oct 2015 06:58pm
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It's amazing what a little fresh rot will do to a painted structure- 
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gw3760602
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# Posted: 6 Oct 2016 08:04pm
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I have been thinking hard about building a boat or spruce goose on my property, and then "not" living in it. Are there any bylaws about where you can construct a boat or hercules type aircraft in CA? If not then everyones problems are solved. Alternatively I've never heard of any law barring you from sleeping on a wood skidder, you could lay a couple logs in your skidder and live in that. A 20'x20' skidder, with a "portable sink" (bathtub), for washing your hands when they get dirty lumberjacking.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 10 Oct 2016 10:32am - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Don't forget the nice kitchen counter/workbench, complete with the nice drawers for screwdrivers, sink for parts washing. Also, the padded shelves that resemble bunks work nice for your tool storage. Oh, and a wood stove to dry out the wet rain gear and work clothes and to keep you warm as you come out of the rain to warm up and dry off. 
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SE Ohio
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2017 10:48am
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Here's a guy who avoided a permit 
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Salty Craig
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# Posted: 3 Feb 2017 07:09pm
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I got a permit when I built. 1 visit deal. Showed a hand drawn plan by yours truly. Paid a couple hundred bucks and left. Had inspector out twice. Once for framing, foundation, and electrical. Once for final.
Of course I live in a state that until recently has been run by Republicans. I'm sure the liberals will soon screw up everything for us like they have for many of you.
Thankfully most of our "local" government still believe in freedom.
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Audiophile
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2018 12:20am
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This was one of the first threads I read when I got started on this site. I did build a cabin with no permit on rural land my wife and I own and...... well the first two years were great and then I got a notice in the mail at my primary residence that our rural property taxes were being increased. The letter stated that "cabin with nice vinyl windows and nice siding " had "increased the value of the property ". So they will get you one way or another! It is under the sqft requirements for a permit but I have to pay more in taxes. Interestingly enough just this year the county added new satellite Google map images to their website which now shows our cabin. I guess someone just looks at these images every few years looking for cash to rob from the people.
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Tonerboy
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2018 10:01am
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Interesting approach a neighbor took when "rebuilding" a double car garage. He tore down the sides and back, leaving the doors and frames. Built 3 new sides and then "replaced" the doors. No Permit, it was a "repair".
Saw another house that was built almost at the street, just the width of the sidewalk away, which didn't comply to the setback rules. They strip everything off, down to the studs, which was two stories+. Rebuilt in the same location, basically a new house. The labor cost had to be high. Sometimes it takes "creativity" to minimize the powers-at-be.
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jimbob
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2019 04:23am - Edited by: jimbob
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Holy smokes this is a hot thread from ages ago but I must retort!
If I'm going to build my off grid cabin in the off grid woods I certainly hope and would do all in my personal power not to choose property where I would have someone living close enough to call a "neighbor". For that is the entire reason to have a secluded off grid property to begin with IMO. I found this tread searching the generic term in google "can i build off grid in Lake County, OR" Because in Klamath county, OR to even stay in my HUGE Class A RV on my OWN property I must get permits, have a septic sys dug (I have a composting toilet, their regs say WE DON"T CARE) get inspections all which total over 5 grand to begin with, then one must file like they are going to be building a perm residence (you can take as long as you want to build it) but you have to jump through all these hoops just to stay on your own property for more than 21 days every 6 months, So yes sometimes permits and regulations are plain dumb, just like the morons who wrote them, if this were a true democracy then the people would vote for every regulation imposed upon them for at the moment we are not. Anyone thinking otherwise is foolish.
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