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Mpetrizzo1
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2024 10:31am
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Hello everyone. This is my first time posting. My wife and I bought 50 acres 3 years ago. Currently we have our camper set up. We aren’t there full time yet. Our well was just completed last week and we are at the point of starting the cabin. My question to the group is can anyone explain how to build on my property without having to go the route of a recreational cabin. As with that the stipulations are you can’t use it as a permanent residence. Yes no construction codes apply but that’s not the issue to us as I have 30 years experience in framing. We are in north west pa in Mckean county. I cannot find any info on this from my township or the county. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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ICC
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2024 11:58am - Edited by: ICC
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Not sure I clearly understand your intent. This topic is named "Recreational Cabin" but then you state "We aren’t there full time yet."
Which is it? If recreational, what is the problem with following the rec cabin rules? If the issue is with the limits of use with the rec cabin designation, then it sounds like you should be following the path to a regular full-time-use residence. That also eliminates the "looking-over-your shoulder" thing.
???
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Brettny
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2024 01:33pm
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What's there definition of a "recreational cabin"? If theres no codes then I dont think it really matters.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2024 02:38pm
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The owner has to register the cabin as recreational and agree to the # of days a year of use, that it is not a permanent residence,... several other things that I don't recall..... There may be a restriction that it cannot ever be converted to full time residential use... i forget. It does give permission to build a cabin that does not conform to the state bldg code, with limits on how it may be used. I believe that was aimed at folks who just want a simple hunting or fishing cabin w/o the expense of meeting the residential code.
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Mpetrizzo1
Member
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2024 02:40pm
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Were wanting to live there full time. The cabin will have no grid ties. Solar well and backup propane. From what I understand a normal house build would go through all the permits plans and inspections. The recreational cabin is exempt from code but you can not live full time. And can not use the location as a permanent address. So how is it possible to build off grid without problems from your township. No one ever talks about that and even the authorities in the township have no answer. Yet it is legal in pa to live off grid and Mckean county is the top 3 in the state to do so. To me off grid means you build your homestead and live there with no ties to civilization
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2024 03:09pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Any answer here is spitballing into the wind. The only ones who can answer your questions are the local authorities.
No, you wont find info on this forum regarding specifics of your township and/or county. It is likely your county has an online section regarding building requirements.
Fwiw, I went over our county info on my own with what I thought was a fine tooth comb but only got my nitty-gritty answers by talking to the township building inspector.
BTW, you really want to be on the BI good side! Once you butt heads or run afoul of the BI you will always be suspect.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2024 03:43pm
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Quoting: Mpetrizzo1 So how is it possible to build off grid without problems from your township.
First let me state that I am familiar with the rules pertaining to several western states, not specifically PA. But I have friends who in the past lived in PA and NYS and had rec.cabins that I know were covered by special rules or permits.
Most likely, build to code with permits, etc.
No matter what you build there are likely sanitary regulations in place that are set in place by the state government, not the locals. You likely needed a permit for the well, for example? Waste water and effluent will likely have specific needs.
You don't have to connect to the power grid, but all the wiring must be done to the standards of the NEC. That will be of great interest to any insurance company if you desire coverage against fire, theft and other losses.
Quoting: Mpetrizzo1 To me off grid means you build your homestead and live there with no ties to civilization
It's also a frame of mind. I believe the conventional definition is to have a house with no wires or pipes of any kind connected to public utilities... water, sewer, electrical, cable, phones....
One does not need to build the home themselves. We built a number of homes here in the mountains for others and many meet that definition of off-grid.
My home here in northern NM would meet the above definition, however I am not without ties to civilization. I have a propane tank, but hardly use it. I have cell phone service with data to enable writing this and other internet activities like ordering some of the food I eat and the clothes I wear. The county maintains the road my long private road connects to. And they plow snow from it, but not my road. The county also provides emergency services, paramedics, fire....
I prefer to call myself a rural resident rather than off-grid as off-grid can conjure up all sorts of misconceptions.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2024 12:58pm
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Build to code with a building permit...problem solved.
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2024 10:19pm
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You're going to have a hard time - and/or be given a hard time - trying to build a place to live in full-time but attempt to also pass it off as recreational for the county/township. Not that it can't be done, the question is can it be done without running afoul of the authorities? Even if you can fly under their radar, there can also be a nosy neighbor who could rat you out for not following the same rules everybody else is supposed to.
Nevertheless, the best thing to do is just ask your local authorities what you want to do vs. what you can or can't do. You can speak in generalities to maintain some level of anonymity about who you are what what you're wanting to do.....
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old greybeard
Member
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2024 01:58pm
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Build it to the UCC just like any other new house. Full septic, everything to code.
Otherwise PA has implemented the the recreational cabin affidavit you'll have to sign. Can build with no water inside, no grey water discharge allowed, Outhouse with holding tank allowed.
And you can't live there full time without upgrading to code.
This was implemented sometime in mid 2000's. Mine was built before the UCC and rec cabin rule was implemented. As long as I don;t change anything I can live there full time even not being to code.
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