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swapsun
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# Posted: 23 May 2011 01:34pm
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Hello all,
I have been wrestling with the following: I found the following offer:
150 acres @$600/acre. Mostly wooded. Land is some in level and some in rolling. 10 acre beaver pond.
The only issue: The land is a solid 6 hour drive from my home. I would love it have (in spite of the fact that it is a little expensive)...
Thoughts?
Swapsun
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 23 May 2011 01:43pm
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well i think wow...600$ an acre.we paid 7000$ for one and a quarter acres...there is a well,tons of big trees for firewood and a mobile home and a building of sorts.
we thought we got a good deal.
the only drawback.its 5 hours away.It takes so long to get there and then back.If i had it to do over again-i would get a bit closer.now gasoline is so much money...we have to pick and make it a very worthwhile trip before we go out there.
thats my spin on it.But if i could buy 150 acres.wow.thats pretty cool.good luck.
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cman47c
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# Posted: 23 May 2011 01:50pm
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When I bought land, I always made sure there is frontage on public road(either paved or dirt) with no right-of-way problems across other people's land to get in. Make sure the mineral rights are included in the deal(the word "simple" deed in title description). I also check the neighboring properties/activity, i.e. people live there all year, any land-fills, gas wells, coal mines, etc nearby. Depending on the state, the price sounds decent. In NY, rural wooded land is now minimum of $1000/acre and in PA $2500/acre or more since the natural gas rush has started. Local taxes are important as they are very high in NY State. It would be nice if the property had been surveyed in the last 10 years and a good map is available and you can verify the corner pins are intact. Finally, many people log off the land just prior to selling and no big timber is left.
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swapsun
Member
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# Posted: 23 May 2011 02:00pm
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Cabingal3,
Thanks very much... This does not offer a well, nor a septic... Nothing on the property. The seller has also 'thinned' some of the timber - although it is still wooded good for me...
The '6 hours away' issue is still a factor weighing heavily on our minds (wife and I)...
Cman47c,
Thanks very much for your comments. Yes, I did make sure that subsurface rights will be included. You point about the property being surveyed is a very good one and I shall make sure to ask about the corner pins... I do not have a number of the local taxes and it would be an important factor in making the decision (not to mention the 6 hour drive)...
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cabingal3
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# Posted: 23 May 2011 02:02pm
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well swapsun...tell us what u decide.i am sure before the day is over-there is going to be alot of replies on your post.
it sounds like u have all the knowledge u need to know.
let us know what u do.i wish u the best.
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bobrok
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# Posted: 23 May 2011 02:17pm
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My friend lived on Long Island, NY in the 70's when he bought 5 acres of land in Northern NY about 7 miles from the Canadian border and about 10 hours away by car.
He bought is as an investment.
Then he kind of forgot about it.
For 20 years.
Fast forward to 1994 and he now lives somewhat (5-hours) closer in my town and we want to do a father-son camping trip with our 2 boys. We couldn't figure out where to go.
Then, after days of discussion (I kid you not) he "remembers" his 5 acre investment up north.
Yup, the land was still there. We went camping there and had a blast.
This year will be our 17th annual father & son camping trip to his forgotten land. Our boys are 30 years old and wouldn't miss this for the world. Neither would us old guys.
Land doesn't move around like people do. And someday you may find yourself wanting to leave where you are. Or you could sell it as investment property.
Tough call, but the price sure is right, and I wanted to throw in a human factor to this process.
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swapsun
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# Posted: 23 May 2011 02:41pm
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Bobrok,
You are making my decision making process a little bit easier right now as I read your words - especially the part about the 'human factor'. Like you mentioned land sure does not move around and it is there for our kids to receive and take care of...
Thanks very much for the fillip...
Swapsun
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Montanan
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# Posted: 23 May 2011 04:38pm
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Well, I think it's important to consider how you plan to use the property. If you just want it as an investment or to camp on once a year, like Bobrok says, then 6 hours isn't too far. But if you want to spend weekends there regularly, then the drive is going to start to take a real toll. In our situation, we decided on a radius from our home and stuck within that (almost- we wanted to be 2 hrs away and ended up being 2.5.)
By the way, that price per acre seems really cheap to me!
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bobrok
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# Posted: 23 May 2011 05:49pm
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Quoting: swapsun 150 acres @$600/acre
Neglected to ask this of you:
Do you HAVE to buy all 150 acres?
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swapsun
Member
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# Posted: 23 May 2011 08:43pm
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Montanan,
I do not think I can use it on a frequent basis until the kids are a little older. The older one is 6 and hates long car rides... I guess once they grow up, I am sure they can enjoy the land.
Bobrock,
It does not seem to be 'sub-dividable'. Of course, I love large tracts... Not complaining there though...
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smitty
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# Posted: 24 May 2011 02:45am - Edited by: smitty
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$600 an acre seems like a good price. I paid $1,000 an acre..
Only thing I would say, that a LOT of people would disagree with is.
If you don't have the money in your pocket, or in your bank account. You can't buy it. Because if you have to borrow it.. You don't actually own it.
Like I said though. Almost nobody will agree with me on that.
It's controversial, but there's an anti-debt point of view..
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swapsun
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# Posted: 24 May 2011 07:55am
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Smitty,
I hear you - I will need to borrow. Cant pass up a chance like this - in my honest opinion... Yes, I do understand the anti debt perspective, but at points where one thinks that an opportunity might be too good to let pass, one might need to grab the bull by its...
Thanks for the advice.
swapsun
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Scott_T
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# Posted: 24 May 2011 08:28am - Edited by: Scott_T
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Quoting: swapsun Cant pass up a chance like this
Sometimes things are too good to be true. A good deal of due dilligence is in order with raw land purchases. Be sure you are not overpaying at $600/acre. My only comment about the distance is this...six hours of travel (one way) is likely to restrict you to perhaps one visit per year for vacation, maybe two? That may get old for your family after a couple of years? My land (purchased outright) is four hours away (so I can't just pop over to the land on a moments notice) and I have two kids that are in and near teenage years and they have too many things going on every weekend nowadays that require me to be "around" for them. This is a very real consideration to take seriously. In my opinion this might be a little on the risky side if you must use debt financing to acquire it.
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naturelover66
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# Posted: 24 May 2011 10:32am
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If the land checks out and you can truly afford it with no stress......... I say "Go for it". You only live once....... if this is your dream.......... live it.
My cabin is 3 hours and 45 minutes away..... but i would drive 6 to get there. The effort is worth it in my opinion.
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swapsun
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# Posted: 24 May 2011 04:18pm
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Scott,
Words of wisdom - I will definitely consider and weigh the options I have. Thank you. I have two little one myself and their weekends are slowly getting crowded...
Naturelover66,
Thanks for the inspiration. Now let me me put on my rational and non-rational thinking caps and contemplate. Will let you know how this pans out...
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bugs
Member
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# Posted: 24 May 2011 05:06pm
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swapsun
It sounds very promising but.....
It is almost 40% more/acre than what we paid for our 239 acres. Obviously a very different market.
It is going to take you many weekends and holidays to develop it to where your family can enjoy it unless you tent/rv it. The commute length will further draw the process out and add to the final $$$ if you are planning to build a cabin.
What are the permits like? Maybe you can build a low cost bunkie... Maybe you are required to build a 1200 sq ft "cottage" and all the costs that go with it.
And as mentioned kids require time, energy and $$$$ as they grow up to provide them with a good foundation to face the world in a constructive way.
The best thing to do would be to test drive the whole process. Drive out to it. Walk it thoroughly. Check out the neighbourhood and neighbours. And also toss the costs into your monthly/yearly budget and see if you can cope with it all.
Anyway good luck with your decision. Always agonizing.
bugs
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BlaineHill
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# Posted: 24 May 2011 08:31pm
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I kind of see a law of diminishing returns on large tracts of land. I have 72 acres and there is a 15 acre section I have never set foot in. If a peice of land came up for sale next to mine, I dont think I would be interested. Where I am at now, I can easily go out for a Sunday afternoon and I really enjoy that.
Likewise, the first peice of recreational property I owned was almost 3 hours away. It was difficult to just go out for the day. It was usually a camping trip going out there.
I dont know your environment, but if you don't have to go that far for affordable land, I wouldn't. If I was looking to spend 90k on a peice of land, I would look for half the acerage at half the distance. For me, its about finding more oppertunities to get out there.
Also, its not just about the number of acres. I have seen smaller tracts of land surrounded by national forest. You will pay a premium per acre for it, but places like that are just awsome.
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swapsun
Member
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# Posted: 26 May 2011 11:10am
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Bugs and BlaineHill,
Thank you for the feedback. Lots of things to consider all said and done. I will keep you updated on how we go about this...
Thanks
swapsun
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Canadian
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# Posted: 26 May 2011 12:40pm
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I am going to 2nd the distance thing. Growing up a friends family had a cabin 6hrs away. Every summer since we were 16 we would go up for 2 weeks with a couple thousand rounds of .22, 12 ga, 45-70, 30-06, ect, ect (can't believe we did not kill ourselves) and would shoot and fish and have a blast (figuratively and literally). It was a great time and we loved it but at 6hrs away we could only go once per year. As we got older it got harder and harder to go. I now have a property that is 35min away (yeah I know, how lucky is that) and I go up for a couple hours on a day off! I am there 3-5 times a month. It is smaller but borders 1000 acres of public land so I have the space without the property taxes.
6hrs in my mind is just too far for a weekend getaway. The kids will go crazy in the car and as you get busier you will be there less and less. Instead, try to find something for the same money (it will be a much smaller parcel) that is within the magic 2hr drive window. You will be there much more often and it is possible to drive there on a Friday night after work and then back Sunday afternoon without killing yourself. Ideally bordering public land but really if you can get something in the 5-10 acre size you can still feel pretty isolated.
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iwhitewater
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# Posted: 25 Jun 2011 08:57pm
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I bought 10 acres 7 years ago and it is a 5 hour drive. I have built a mini barn on it for storage and a deck. We have been camping on it for 7 years. It is next door to a national park with tons of wilderness. I am starting my cabin on it now. Just ask yourself if you want to retire there and if so consider it as an investment
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Youngster
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2011 09:54am
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I'm not sure if this is a possibility, but if you really wanted to purchase acreage at that price... what about splitting up the acres you didn't want / need and flipping the excess acreage back onto the sales market? you may even be able to increase the price per acre on the flip and re-coup a reasonable portion of your initial investment...
of course, if there is only one road access into property, this may not be possible...
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bojan
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2011 08:13am
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hi swapsun
I buy all my land from http://www.dignam.com/ They are extremely reputable (been around for almost 100 years) and have great deals if you check regularly.
For example right now one of their specials is 160 acres for $300/acre.
Hope this helps.
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