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windmillgeorge
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2021 07:55am
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I really think the under 108 square feet rule in the Ontario Building Code needs to be explored more.
I personally think it might be the only solution for young people to ever own something.
I am a life long carpenter, know the OBC fairly well but one thing holding things back is the rule whereby municipalities prevent you from building one until you build a primary residence.
Often I am faced with some obstacles like this and with a bit of gently pushback the inspectors will allow it. I have not tried it with this but plan to. I would like to hear some others' experiences of gently pushing back?
Thanks in advance, george
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2021 08:41am
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Hello George, isn't this supposed to be your government. Why not try changing it.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2021 05:30pm
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I imagine some places/inspectors are reasonable but if it comes down to it; ie, their reputation or even job, you are the one in violation to the rules.
Who will be bit in the butt?
Around here some small structures are often allowed before the major one, presumably for materials and/or tools, etc., but the major building must be approved and permitted and you have to a certain date then construction is to begin. Extensions have been granted but I heard one is allowed so it doesnt become an endless thing.
Ive found most of the local info online. I like that a lot better than going in to talk to folks at the gov office who seem like 'who are you and what are you trying to get away with?'......
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Houska
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2021 08:30am
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Both the rules and their interpretation vary based on municipality. It's the "<108 sqft accessory structure" *together* with "main structure/residence needs to be >xxx sq ft" rules which create problems, and the 2nd one is township dependent.
In our case, we've asked the friendly folks at our local township office about putting up a larger storage shed/garage, preparatory to an eventual cabin build. They've *suggested* we start with an 8x12 (i.e. <108 sq ft) unpermitted Amish shed, and once we have it in place they will "temporarily" consider it a residence and permit a larger storage shed as an accessory. (We are planning to be up to code on the cabin.)
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2021 07:42am
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Ontario has it's quirks, a lot of us can tell you about that. There is a weird rule to your advantage. If you build a 10'x10' with 8' ceiling height they see that as 100 square feet. IF you add a second floor BUT have a 3'6" knee wall instead of a full 8' high, that is a 1/2 Story and does not count as "floor space" as such. The line gets crossed at 4'. (it's a left over within the regs from days long past).
General Building Inspectors in Ontario are NOT Trained, Certified & Licensed as such in general. We are talking about township & county level and even into large cities. They do have different inspectors for commercial/industrial etc... Most are ex-contractors etc with years of building experience.
Much like House Inspectors (for sales / buyers) are NOT trained, Licensed or Tested for their knowledge & experience, most are ex-contractors but many are not even that.... BONE OF Major Contention in the Province and Ford refused to address it several times already... Actually made it worse with rule changes.
To THAT End, you must figure out what the inspector(s) for your area are like. Some regions they are pretty good while others, they are downright Fascistic ! (I had ONE that even measured the nail spacing to make sure it complied with the Nailing Schedule) 2x6 nailing requirement is 3 Nails not 2 or 4 !
KEEP IN MIND - I am talking about Ontario CANADA, rules, regs and "Characters being Building Inspectors" vary everywhere.
A Cousin in Colorado, Commercial Structural Inspector, checks Bridges & such +++ He cannot nail two sticks together and punches holes in walls to find studs ! His niece had show him how to use a Stud Finder! Would you trust anything he inspected ? I Would NOT ! (some did fail - he no longer does that work anymore Thank God for the citizens there)
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2021 07:45am
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Ohhh I should have mentioned, Inspectors within Urbanium Zones are always worse than out in the country. BUT some country locations have been overun by CITIFICATION and the stupidity that comes with that. Simply put, the farther from a city you are the more likely the reasonableness will be encountered.
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windmillgeorge
Member
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2021 09:08am
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Steve, can you please direct me to where the 4 foot or less rule is? Not doubting you, just to educate myself. In the OBC, the 108sq feet is 'building' area, not 'floor area', both are defined differently.
I assume the 4 foot rule allows the 1.5 story common prefab bunkie to exist. But in the definitions in 1.4.1.2, it defines the building area as the 'greatest horizontal area', which in my mind, could refer to the second story which is well over the 108sq feet limit.
The floor area being different seems to lend itself to allowing two floors.
As an aside, I am always amazed how 'a person's desire to read something like they want it to' slants their understanding. I often come across phrases that seem clear to me whereas my son reads it another. I guess that is why we have lawyers.
Thanks so much for adding to this discussion.
I really think these 108sq foot structures may be our only hope for the next generation.
thanks george
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windmillgeorge
Member
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2021 09:12am
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Several people have mentioned 'at the discretion of local inspector'. I get that, I see how they might let something slide, especially if they know you. Also, whether you have a track record of finishing things and having no complaints by neighbours.
But. I would like to get an official reading on this. There are many clauses in the OBC that clearly lay this out.
I am going to call the OBC office, I have done that in the past and have been very impressed with their help in understanding. I just wanted to brainstorm some of this stuff with you guys.
thanks george
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socceronly
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# Posted: 4 Jan 2022 05:35pm
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The killer for me is the septic tank/field.
Since my place is on an island this is crazy time expensive.
I can't get a straight answer on if there is a legal alternative to it. Like an incinerating toilet or composting toilet.
For greywater using an evaporation tank or filter...
I gave up trying to get answers from them.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2022 05:55am
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Some times they can't tell you that an alternative septic is fine...they just cant fail you for it. You will need to find the town/county or state codes your self and read and understand them. Any inspector here cant tell you how to do something, only suggest to get it to pass. if that makes any sence
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