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MuskokaNewbie
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2021 10:05pm
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Hi all. I've greatly enjoyed this website and forum. But, I haven't quite found an answer to a particular question about build options on a property (~96 acres) I already own, which was recently inherited.
The property is not accessible via any road (nearest is several km away) and at best is accessible via a kayak through some thick swamp/marshland. But, part of the property is zoned waterfront residential (fronting the marshland); the rest is open space. Trying to decide whether to use it for anything beyond tent camping.
Given access issues (and cost), we're looking for something basic, and we'd only use it occasionally. But, we'd prefer to go the legal route. A bunkie would be great- a nice step up from tenting. From my read of the zoning rules, a bunkie would be fine as a hunt camp in the open space part of the property (up to 1000sqft). Is it ever possible to build a hunt camp in a waterfront residential zone, closer to the water/marsh? I know structures <108sqft don't need a permit if its an "accessory use" but without the primary dwelling, it wouldn't work with that exemption, from what I understand. Otherwise, if we wanted to build in the residential zone, we'd have to go 750sqft+. This is fine (a big square box would be the most basic version), but would the dwelling have to be fully outfitted with utilities, wiring, insulation, etc? For cost, we'd rather not have to do all that (at least initially). We'd just want some basic facilities (outhouse or composting toilet and a small solar generator to power a few lights and other basics). But not sure if this would meet building code for a dwelling? I tried reaching out to the municipality with questions, but they're not answering emails right now (at least they were upfront about that, though...).
Thoughts? Suggestions?
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ICC
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2021 10:13pm
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If the municipality is not answering questions by email, then telephone? Make an in person appointment? They will have all the answers.
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MuskokaNewbie
Member
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2021 10:36pm
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Quoting: ICC If the municipality is not answering questions by email, then telephone? Make an in person appointment? They will have all the answers.
I tried calling too. No luck. And I'm not local, so in person won't work. Their website specifically says that due to COVID and the amount of development applications they're getting, "..staff will only be available to assist applicants with submitted applications." So the municipality isn't going to be much use to me at the moment, it seems. They suggest hiring a planning firm for advice... 
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ICC
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2021 10:51pm - Edited by: ICC
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Well that is unfortunate. It appears that you may just have to wait and hope Covid takes a holiday.
It is of no consequence to you but here where I am I would say that all permit related stuff is taking 2 to 3 times as long as it used to even when checks are sent in with completed applications. Crazy amount of new building going on here.
Waterfront properties come with extra and special rules. And from some of the really bad ideas I have seen here I sorta can't find fault with that.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2021 05:38am
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There are several of us in Ontario here and a few within the Muskoka itself. Yes, they have had to step up enforcement & rules as too many Citiots from Hogtown brought their "tudes" and ill-manners to the region. Why some can't "leave the city behind" when they leave it, is a mystery...
FYI, Building Inspectors & Enforcement in Muskoka is HIGH, they do not mess about, so don't do it yourself. ALSO, some Code Rule Changes are coming into effect this or next month across Ontario and Townships are also updating changes.... STAY ON TOP OF IT !
You can certainly DIY a Cabin / "Hunt Camp" or even setup tent platforms. There are a few folks using Yurts on Platforms. I just saw a Yurt with Hard Insulated Walls (panels) and just trying to track down info on that.
Are you intending to build using Logs/Wood off your land or using milled lumber ?
Without a Road - Driveway access and water / snowmobile access only have you thought about how to get your tools & materials to the property ?
The 10 Square Metre / 107 square foot rule sux honestly, but it can be worked with. Some tricks related to it. They look at the "floor space" from the outter edges of the walls. Now if you go Storey & a half, it does not count as a 2nd floor & floorspace in the square footage calculations. 1/2 Storey meaning 4' walls not 8'. In several cases, people will build Two 10x10's, one as a sleeping bunky and one as a Cookhouse + common area. Plop a Covered Porch or Stand-Alone Gazebo (with screens, it IS the Muskoka afterall) between them and you can have quite a nice space to enjoy the area.
Septic, Outhouse, Composting toilet (or sawdust/bucket system) can be used BUT must be very seriously considered. Being in the Watershed there are extra rules to deal with. Do NOT run afoul of them, they will nail you to the wall for that, that has gotten Very Serious (again thanks to Stupids).
A Word of advice, the inspectors up there are pretty good, they are tough, they have been forced to be because of idiots. As such they have little to no tolerance for stupid - honestly. Be calm, cool, collected and ASK them for their ideas & suggestions as to how best to go about what you are thinking on. It is best to see them in person BEFORE planning things and tell them that you are seeking "their advice & suggestions" while Pre-Planning to make it easier for ALL OF YOU. They DO Appreciate that a LOT ! Simple Nicety but goes a long way to make a good relationship. Just remember the calm country ways & pace and you'll fare well.
Hope it helps, Good Luck.
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KelVarnsen
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2021 08:29am
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That is a great answer Steve and a very informative post.
Quoting: Steve_S ALSO, some Code Rule Changes are coming into effect this or next month across Ontario and Townships are also updating changes
Can you elaborate on the rule changes? Where can I find out about the upcoming changes?
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2021 08:46am
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I just caught wind of it myself when I meandered in to pay the property tax fees. Some of it is just administrative stuff (more amalgamation cleanup stuff) but some new code requirements & limits too. Here is some more info to watch for.
Rural Waste Management is also undergoing changes too and they are changing what can/can't go to recycle, waste etc... Also the whole Toxic-Waste management & collection too (old batteries, oil and such things). THIS I think is more to align it because it all got messed up in the past 3 years, especially after that one big "Waste Company" and it's debacle - bankruptcy.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/building-code-updates
https://oaa.on.ca/knowledge-and-resources/documents-and-publications/documents-and-pu blications/New-Ontario-Building-Code-OBC-Amendments-
http://www.codenews.ca/
https://www.publications.gov.on.ca/browse-catalogues/building-code-and-guides
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2021 11:26am - Edited by: gcrank1
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Until things get easier to communicate I'd be inclined to build a 'tent platform' in something like 10x10 or 12x whatever sections, easier to haul the lumber in by jon-boat maybe?
Each section built could be joined together to make a larger platform, which would just be a deck on a floating foundation (blocks) and fairly easily moved by a couple of stout lads.
You might be able to do a simple shed roof over part of it, no hard walls, and use screw in hooks to hang tarps as soft walls for a windbreak.
If no roof allowed maybe go with a pergola framing that you can throw a tarp over.
After using it for a while, if allowed to build, the sections are your pre-built cabin deck(s).
It is very nice to have a platform for a tent, up off the ground conditions and whatever critters live there.
If you are allowed a little utility building, even the size of an outhouse, it would be great for storing the always needed tools, tents, gear, etc so you dont have to always haul in.
If a 'structure' isnt allowed maybe build a large weather tight 'toolbox'?
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MuskokaNewbie
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# Posted: 9 Sep 2021 11:33pm
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Thanks all for the info. Helpful to know there's new rules coming down. Appreciate the links.
I like the modular idea- sleeping bunkie, common space bunkie, etc. Definitely an option we've thought about.
Getting building materials and tools to the site will be a serious undertaking. Also part of why we like the bunkie idea over a larger structure. I was looking at some of the "log" cabin kits from companies like Sawmill Structures or BunkieLife. A kit like that would reduce the need for power tools. And we could probably break the kit down into a few boat trips.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2021 07:23am
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I seem to recall another fellow building up there and he managed to rent a Pontoon Boat to haul material. It may be worth asking around because no matter how you look at it, a few hundred pieces of 2X* is a Pita to fart around with, especially on a "usual" boat.
4 walls for a 10x10 alone is 50 pieces of lumber... std build 16oc. add floor, sheathing, roof stuff etc...
As for power tools. Listen, I built my place 90% powertool use was my DeWalt 20V "bundled set" which was IMO the best buy I ever did... All of it still going strong. The generator was used to run Tablesaw, mitre saw, air compressor for nail gun etc. IN FACT, the batteries for the Dewalt stuff are still going good but finally starting to show a bit of loss.... 6 years, 1 house, 3 buildings + a heck of a lot more out of them.
I've seen the Sawmill Structures stuff, pretty nice actually but wood intensive, hard to insulate, you really do at least want to insulate the floor & roof and follow their instructions for that... Umm, remember 3000 Lbs, 4'Wx13'L "bundles" plus roof, insulation etc.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2021 07:48am
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Quoting: Steve_S I built my place 90% powertool use was my DeWalt 20V "bundled set" which was IMO the best buy I ever did
Couldn't agree more. I've did a complete reno on two cabins with nothing but hand tools and a combo set of cordless tools. I could have done 90% of that with the drill and skill saw.
If getting supplies in via boat (and a pontoon boat is the way to go), isn't an option then via snowmobile in the winter is the next best option. In fact it may be a better option depending on how far of a carry from the water to your build site is. I've taken all kinds of heavy stuff in via snowmobile and can pull right up to the cabin in the winter, as opposed to loading the boat, getting to the dock and unloading and carrying up to the cabin.
Takes some planning, but clear a spot in the summer for materials to be dropped, bring in via snowmobile, place off the ground and tarped and ready for the next building season.
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