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Gary O
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2011 09:14am - Edited by: Gary O
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Quoting: Borrego sorry, but someone's got to be your realist
Ah, there's that word 'reality' again
The reality is, if TSHTF, two, maybe three of the 800 plus users of this forum could live a sustained life at their camp for any lengthy period of time.
The reality is, we'd all become much more dependant on each other, yeah, neighbors, the ones we barely know, and ration, forage, hunt, gather, share, organize.
The scary reality is, we've been entertained by, and fed off so much violence for the last few decades that there could be more takers than sharers..
Borrego, you and I, and evidently many others in this forum are cut from the same cloth.
Work hard, get things to make things, enjoy the accomplishments, and sip some beverage along the way. Of course there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and many things right with it. Its admirable, and an exemplary testament to those that come after.
Turkeyhunter, you are a rare breed. People tend to live vicariously thru your kind.
MtnDon, we all come to the foot of your mount of knowledge to glean a bit of wisdom.
Then there's the one with just the desire.
Somewhat hemmed in to circumstance.
As mentioned throughout this thread, it's doable.
Just, bless your ol' soul, willing to wrench your mind to an opposing direction in order to help find a way.
Peace is within.
Aragorn, if acquiring a country property does it for you, to give visual tangibility to that peace, make it so.
Once acquired, things tend to fall into place.
Soundandfurycabin is a testament.
Quoting: Borrego You need to think outside the box to make this happen......
There's a box?
Enjoy the journey Aragorn
Keep us posted
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Gary O
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2011 09:26am - Edited by: Gary O
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Quoting: Borrego Again sorry, but someone's got to be your realist. And I can't believe that $1300 mo for insurance is the only option.
Not sure about NYC, but here, there's part time insurance for vehicles not driven much....there's an annual mileage limit........if you so choose to buy a truck.........and store it at your newly acquired friend's place on the bus/train route to your paradise.....
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steveqvs
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2011 02:43pm
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I think its a cool idea. Also remember once you get a piece of ground and establish a residency you might be able to get insurance from out there. If there is free parking at the train or nearby you could leave your vehicle up there too and just use it from the train station to your property... just some ideas to think about. Not sure how keen you are about a motorcycle, but there are several Dual Sports made out there that you ride on road and offroad. Thats fairly cheap, insurance is fairly cheap too. Don't let go of your dreams and you will find a place. Pick a couple of train stations then talk to locals, look around on the internet, hang out in resturants, coffeehouses, or the local convienient mart. You will find something that fits the bill.
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bobrok
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2011 08:03pm
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I've made your quest a challenge for myself and have come up with a scenario that I think can actually be accomplished.
Now there are many unanswered questions, to be sure, and I had to make some assumptions but I think I have valid reasons for making them.
First off, almost everyone I know who lives in the City wants to leave the City, and there is a rather large outmigration by people who have the means to leave, whether it is to permanently relocate or to have that 'place in the country'. Many come upstate (some fly themselves up in their planes), some go to the Poconos, CT, VT and Jersey, and some even (gasp) to the Island. Believe it or not Long Island is very beautiful once you get out into Suffolk County. I've been to Riverhead, dated a girl from Southold who's father ran a fishing business. This is a very nice place, the LIRR runs out most of the way, although most people I know who live on the Island hate it and want to leave. This is a topic for another discussion though because you specifically mentioned upstate.
So, Aragorn, for me upstate starts at Albany and runs north and west from there. For you who live in Brooklyn upstate probably starts once you pass Yankee Stadium (joke). Here is a conflict of opinion. But since you joined a 'small-cabin' forum I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and try to address your big-city desires with my upstate wisdom (if you care to call it that) adapted to "downstate" from my point of view (I hope that makes sense).
You need public transportation, open space, are willing to walk, bike, bus, in some combination to reach your destination. My first thought was take the Metro North to the end of the line (Poughkeepsie) and keep going. You mentioned that Poughkeepsie was far, but doable. I have to wonder how much open space (or available and affordable land) you are going to find in the Husdon Valley below Poughkeepsie because honestly I don't know about that area other than White Plains (malls), Chappaqua (Hillary and Bill Clinton), New Rochelle (mafia), Ossining (prison), and Yankee Stadium (da Bronx).
But I do know about New Paltz. New Paltz is a quaint little community across the Hudson from Poughkeepsie. I've been there. I know people who live there. It's country and open spaces. It has land, farms, mountains, country homes, etc. It has a SUNY college and because of this is an ecclectic and hippie-type community if your into that. Small town shops, small town diners, small town down-town, etc. It's about as "upstate" as one can get while still being "downstate" (from my vantage point). It's really a pretty neat place, and it's not all too far from Woodstock if you really want to get laid back.
Best of all, I know a real estate broker who lives there and can work with you.
So how do you do it? Debark Metro North at the end of the line. There is actually a commuter bus from Poughkeepsie to New Paltz. Don't want the bus? There is a bike path as well. Mind you it's something like 12 miles and you will have to cross the river. Not sure if bikes pay tolls, forgot to check on that.
I've put a couple of link pages here for you to follow this scenario. I honestly didn't think this to be doable but one of the link pages is to a forum discussion by folks who actually do this commute on a daily basis to work in the City (Manhattan, no less). That has to be a gruelling commute, but, hey, even the busses have wi-fi!
So you see it can be done! This was a fun exercise for me and I don't mean it to be a tongue-in-cheek soliloquy, but I proved to myself that where there is a will there is a way.
Of course you could always leave NYC and move somewhere else permanently. It's a big country.
Keep on truckin'...
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97Marlin
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2011 08:20pm
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Hello,
I'd check out www.harneyre.com
I think awhile ago they had a property or some land within walking distance of the Wassaic train station. This will get you into NYC daily by Metro North.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2011 09:52pm
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Aragorn
I think bob is a DODGER"FAN " he might be on to somthing!!!A way out of town!!!
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bobrok
Member
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2011 03:42pm - Edited by: bobrok
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Actually despite my many anti-NY posts on here the wife and I are huge Yankee fans. Watching the game now in fact. There are many things I do like about NYC. One of them is the Bronx Bombers!
:-)
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Aragorn
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# Posted: 24 Apr 2011 11:02pm
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Thank you all.
bobrok, You're right, Poughkeepsie is good choice if I can find land there. It's not too far, you're right. Thanks for suggestions.
97Marlin, Thanks, their property is too expensive for me. Seems like they have property for living, to for camping.
Borrego, Yep, in NYC insurance is expensive. New drivers pay $3,000 per year. $1,300 is for experienced drivers. Registering car outside city would be an option, but it's still expensive for me. I agree with you that it would be very hard without car.
steveqvs, you said: "Also remember once you get a piece of ground and establish a residency you might be able to get insurance from out there. "
I don't want to establish legal residency on my (possible future) property because as I understand it, I would have to get permit for house and but all the utilities and house itself would be too expensive. Definitely not what I want. Although I understand that what I want might be not achievable.
Well, so far I'm unable to find anything online. Just nothing. Possible I have to go to a town and look around/ask someone. That's not for immediate future (maybe summer?). Will keep looking online, but again, nothing so far...
Thanks people.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2011 01:41am - Edited by: TomChum
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Build a cabin out in the woods with no truck? Considering that cabins have been built for hundreds of years before trucks existed..... Your project is doable. Just that nobody does it like that anymore.
You have to find some older people to talk to - with good memories. People in their 50's can't even remember what it was like when few families had "2 cars", you'll have to go for 70+.
I think you should look for the land first, which means, actually get out of the city, on foot and look around. Which will be a challenge without a car. That in itself will tell you a LOT of what you need to know. First thing you will learn is whether you really do want to move forward on this project.
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bobrok
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2011 09:55am
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Not my preference but if you want an instant getaway, even temporary, buy an old mobile home and plop it on your spot. Not pretty, but
1) you'll have instant amenities, a closed in area, heat, appliances, etc
2) plenty of stock to choose from in a rural upstate county like Ulster.
3) cheap digs to start with
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2011 11:59am
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How about that want add on cregs list , you can do that from home
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2011 05:14pm
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Hello Aragorn,I am a very stuburn optimist.Where there is a will,there is a way.I admire your desire to want to build yourself your cabin.You can buy a very nice pre built shed/barn/cabin these days.They are built on 4x4 treated timbers delivered and placed on your building spot.I bought a 12 x 20 gable roof shed at work for storage but can't help but think this would make an awesome cabin.The biggest trouble you'll have is getting the building permit squared away in new york state.They have gotten so insane with their crazy requirements.Just tell them it is a garden shed and nothing more.
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nicalisa
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2011 08:34pm
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Aragorn,
I think that you have a wonderful goal and believe that you can do it without a truck. First step is to find the property. Go and look in areas that interest you. Take the public transport out to the area to try it on for size and talk to the local folks about you want to do, they will be your best resources and in a small community know anyone who is thinking about selling some property long before it hits the market:)
I also agree with the others that are suggesting that you buy a truck in that it will take a lot longer to get it built without this method of transport. Having said that we are on year 4 and are to the lock up stage only at our lil house as we are water access only and have to rely on a water taxi plus public ferry service, barge service, and truck rentals etc. We went up and met people before we bought and had a support group when we started the project.
We have a quad up there which helps when we need to haul things off of the beach and up to our site. (cheap to maintain, not expensive to pick up a good machine used, can live at the camp, and needs no insurance) We actually had a pick up that died out there last weekend that we were very grateful to have a nice chap who lives there full time take off of our hands as if you can not maintain it on your own, (which we are not inclined to learn to do) it is not worth having.
Slow and steady will win the race and you will learn how to use the raw material on the land in new and creative ways:) We have turned cedar rounds 4 inches thick that we chainsawed into a side deck.....keeps us from having to haul in wood! We have used the quad to haul up sand, and pebbles from the beach to line our "drive way" We have relied on local neighbors that have machines and mills in and bartered things that they needed brought in from the city (parts for their machines etc.) and traded our pick up services; and exchanged some wood from our site for them to mill and sell for services we needed. Heck, in a pinch a bottle or two of beer is a good trade for something small. I have learned that packing in extra food and inviting anyone at the beach over for dinner on nights that we are there, paves the way for negotiations and trades:)
Plus, we got to know some real good folks that we really enjoy that we wouldn't have known otherwise as we would have just been those city folks in the the weekend.
It will not be easy for you to build in this way, and it will not be quick, but everything worth while in life takes work to do, and if you are willing to try, then find that property, find some ideas to make it work, make your brand new mistakes or some of the same ones we all have, and enjoy living your dream.
Hugs and best of luck!
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Gary O
Member
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2011 09:10am
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TomChum
nicalisa
Very nice posts
Very very nice
Quoting: steveqvs Pick a couple of train stations then talk to locals, look around on the internet, hang out in resturants, coffeehouses, or the local convienient mart. You will find something that fits the bill.
Quoting: TomChum I think you should look for the land first, which means, actually get out of the city, on foot and look around. Which will be a challenge without a car. That in itself will tell you a LOT of what you need to know. First thing you will learn is whether you really do want to move forward on this project.
....and there it is
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Aragorn
Member
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# Posted: 7 May 2011 07:59pm - Edited by: Aragorn
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Thank you all for encouraging posts.
Just an update.
I found a small piece of land online, near village of Margaretville. It has a small cabin in bad condition (requires repairs). That still would be better than building from scratch. But the problem is that a bus to the village costs $71 round trip for one. That's $142 for me and my wife for one trip. That's beyond my budget... No trains there.
I figured even if I register a car somewhere upstate NY with lower insurance, that would probably be still beyond my budget...
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Gary O
Member
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# Posted: 20 May 2011 05:05pm - Edited by: Gary O
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Quoting: Aragorn I found a small piece of land online, near village of Margaretville. It has a small cabin in bad condition (requires repairs). That still would be better than building from scratch
Well, Aragorn?
Did you go see it?
Once you walk a piece of land, and stroll around with your mouth open, a fever comes over you, and necessities become miraculously re-aligned, and bus tickets become affordable......
read naturelover66's thread
"i had a great feeling about the place while walking the property. I couldnt wipe the stupid smile off my face for a second."
Priorities, man.
Coffee in place of lattes, walking in place of cabs, kool aid in place of wine, hand washing clothes in place of laundromats, iced tea in place of beer....oh, wait.......less beer in place of beer...anyway, you get my point.
Well, Aragorn?
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Aragorn
Member
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2012 03:04pm
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Well, let me give an update here, even though it's so late. Basically, so far I've failed to find anything with access without car... Yep, as bad as it sounds. What I'm looking at now is a way to get cheaper car insurance, which would increase, but NOT guarantee, our chances of getting a land with a small cabin. So I have these questions now, maybe you guys know the answer:
- Can land with no official building (with small cabin instead) have an official address? Does one have to have a building permit to get address? If I had an address there, I could register car and get maybe $800 insurance instead of $2,300.
- Some people have suggested that an RV, or "trailer" or anything that has wheels does not require any building permit even though it can be of bigger size than a small cabin (100 sq. ft.). Is that true? If it is then it's probably a better option as long as it can be blocked or anchored somehow.
What do you think?
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2012 03:36pm - Edited by: Dillio187
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any shot in moving out of Brooklyn to a place some place a little more....free? Then you could commute into the city to work, and not have as long of a drive to your property? Then you could have your vehicle and a shorter commute to your land. Just a thought, I hope it works out for you.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2012 04:18pm
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aragorn
nice to hear from you, been a while ,great that you are still dreaming . thats a sign of spirit and thats all you need to make this happen .maybe you are looking to far from home ,what about a roof top in the city!!! solar power, rain water ,container garden..hummmmmm
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dk1393
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2012 06:11pm
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My camp is in upstate NY. I opened a po box when I bought the property. That way I can have mail order goodies go there and I dont have to haul them. That may be an option for you.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2012 08:42pm
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Quoting: Aragorn Well, let me give an update here, even though it's so late. Basically, so far I've failed to find anything with access without car... Yep, as bad as it sounds. What I'm looking at now is a way to get cheaper car insurance, which would increase, but NOT guarantee, our chances of getting a land with a small cabin. So I have these questions now, maybe you guys know the answer: - Can land with no official building (with small cabin instead) have an official address? Does one have to have a building permit to get address? If I had an address there, I could register car and get maybe $800 insurance instead of $2,300. - Some people have suggested that an RV, or "trailer" or anything that has wheels does not require any building permit even though it can be of bigger size than a small cabin (100 sq. ft.). Is that true? If it is then it's probably a better option as long as it can be blocked or anchored somehow. What do you think?
In my state, you can get an address, even with no building, but if you apply for a permit, you MUST have an address. Yes, Park Model type trailers (looks just like a small cabin) is same as an RV, I think the limit is 450 sq feet or maybe 500.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2012 10:28pm
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I just did a search and NY insurance is only $6 more per month than in CA (avg). Just get a truck , get a lot, and do this. Or, if you can't handle the finances, then don't do it, save up and do it later.
It's looking (to me) like you are just trying to do something you simply cannot afford........
But I could be wrong.......
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Aragorn
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2012 01:37am - Edited by: Aragorn
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Borrego,
NYC insurance is much higher than in the rest of NY state. Can't afford it...
Dillio187,
Can't afford a house within acceptable travel time to NYC... but thanks for advice
Where can I find out if bare land can have an address in NY?
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PA_Bound
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2012 08:24am - Edited by: PA_Bound
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I would be very surprised if bare land could not have an address in NY, but that doesn't necessarily mean you can use it to receive mail. Let me explain.
Many areas, for 911 purposes, are assiging street addresses to all parcels of land in their locality. At our hunting property, for example, the township came through a few years ago and assigned it a street address. Why? So if we have to call 911 to report some form of emergency, we have an address to give them. I was told this was becoming the norm as many localities across the U.S. upgrade their GIS systems.
Having an address however does not mean you can receive mail. To receive mail the property must be registered with the Post Office. I would call the local Post Office (or, better yet, stop by) to see what the requirements are for registering a property to receive mail. I know you'll need a copy of the deed (ideally showing that address), but I'm not sure what paperwork is required beyond that.
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jbhernandez
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2012 10:57pm
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Don't just think New York. There's a lot of cheap land in PA, and people commute into the city from there all day long.
Here's a property for under $500 (steep incline).
http://www.landsofamerica.com/land-for-sale/1-acres-in-Monroe-County-Pennsylvania/id/ 872189#contactform
And here's the fare on bus $35 round trip.
http://www.martztrailways.com/fares-commuter.asp
If you can stand a 5 hour RT commute.
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Aragorn
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jul 2012 04:42pm - Edited by: Aragorn
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Mission Abort! I repeat: Mission Fail... 
Long story short... mission failed... which is sad. We will try to make more cash to afford car insurance and gas etc... So I'm starting a new thread asking where I can build without a permit in NY.
New Mission assigned! :
http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/5_2436_0.html
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