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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2017 10:13 - Edited by: Smawgunner
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All of my hunting buddies will take any chance they get to kill a coyote. They all site trail cam pictures and stories of coyotes killing deer. They claim that the deer population is in decline because of this. I tend to rely more on research so I studied this as much as I could and found the contrary. The more coyote you kill the more they repopulate to replace themselves which actually increases their population. Not only that in Ohio at least these animals are not pack animals they are mostly solitary. Research has shown much of their diet does include DEER but it does not show how those deer were acquired. Most researchers believe they were scavenged. Bobcat as well has a diet mostly made up of deer meat. Certainly a 25 lb bobcat would not take down a white tailed deer. These animals are opportunistic and would not waste so much energy and risk injury when they could eat mice and chipmunks squirrels rabbits etc. They would take down a fawn but they are not present all year long. I like to see coyotes and love to hear them howl but it doesn't make a difference to me whether they shoot them or not. It is the reason behind it that baffles me. It's that kill anything that moves mentality. Thoughts?
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2017 10:36
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I personally have no issues with Coyote's or Wolves for that matter. They take out the sickly, injured & feeble which strengthens the quality of the wildlife. They (predators) keep herds moving, preventing over grazing which allows vegetation to grow back faster & better along with being more diverse. This also prevents the animals from compacting the soil reducing it's ability to absorb moisture and nutrients.
We have Bear, Wolves, Foxes, Coyotes, Lynx & Bobcat in my region and there are many farmers with cattle, sheep & goats and incidents with wild predators is very minimal. There is an abundance of deer, wild turkey and assorted small game as well, which is a likely factor as to why domestic animals are safe and very few incidents arise.
I have come across deer carcass and it's easy to see that many different scavenger's have been at it and leave very little to waste. We also have some quite well fed Vulture's flying around, so I guess things are reasonably balanced as farmer's aren't complaining and we do all chat about wolf sightings etc and no one is ever excited or angry.
Only time people got "excited & angry" was a few years back when a Big old Male Black Bear went rogue and started killing calves and went after sheep.... The hunter's took him out right quick and he was quite old and had health problems, so it was suspected that this caused it to attack livestock as it was no longer able to hunt / forage as it had previously. (I dunno but that is what the M.O.E. guy's said)
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2017 10:42 - Edited by: MtnDon
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Here's what the NM Game & Fish have on their website...
"Coyotes are opportunistic. Readily eating
carrion, fruit, seeds, berries or insects,
they also will prey on a variety of mammals.
Favoring rabbits, voles and mice,
coyotes will prey on deer, but usually only
first-year fawns or an occasional feeble
or infirm adult. Coyotes can be livestock
predators and may target domestic pets,
such as cats and dogs in urban locales. "
That said, we in NM have lots of them. They can be hunted and trapped all year long. We leave them alone. I don't like the idea of shooting just to kill them. Make use of the hide, maybe that's another thing.
I'd ask your local game & fish dept to see what they have to say.
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Gary O
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2017 11:03 - Edited by: Gary O
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I love the yotes
Their coats are beautiful this time of year
and
I enjoy their songs so
Their language, their verses describe the landscape as only they can
Seems they too enjoy their rendition of taps
I would very much miss their melodies floating across this land of a morn and evening
yessir
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paulz
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2017 12:36 - Edited by: paulz
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I've not seen a coyote near my cabin but can hear them off in the distance. I used to leave the doggie door open all night for our little lap dog to go out but I've been closing it lately for fear of attack. Am I too paranoid? Sometimes he goes out in the pitch black for 15-20 minutes, no idea where he's off to.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2017 12:46
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You are wise to keep the dog in- coyotes hunt in coordinated groups and once they get the advantage it's over quickly.
There was a story here in the San Jose area about a guy who gets up in the middle of the night to find several raccoons had come through the dog door and were feasting on dog chow. He tried to scare them out- they fought back and won.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2017 12:50
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Quoting: Gary O I would very much miss their melodies floating across this land of a morn and evening
Agreed. It's what makes it wild.
I didn't know you were a poet.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2017 13:02 - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Have lots of coyotes at my cabin. They are plentiful. And the turkey population is suffering. But I suppose as they dwindle, so will the coyotes. My cabin area reminds me of western movies, it those all made in the 50's and 60's in the Sierras. So the coyotes fits well. At night, you can hear them all get real noisy and howling for about 15 minutes, then all is quiet again. I suppose they are gathering for a hunt and later on, real noisy if they get a big kill. We do have wolves in the area now also. Locals are not real jacked. I dont have an issue but wouldn't hesitate to off one of I was threatened or any animal I have threatened, same for the coyotes. But so far, I never even see them, just hear and I am all good with that.
Strawberry wolf pack is closest to my area.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/
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Gary O
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# Posted: 12 Feb 2017 20:44
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Quoting: bldginsp I didn't know you were a poet.
I didn't either.....
I do give thought to prose from time to time
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Jebediah
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2017 05:36 - Edited by: Jebediah
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I watched a doe and fawn swimming in my lake and then realized they were being chased by two coyotes, it was getting dark so I don't know if the coyotes followed them using the shoreline. At first I seen just one deer then I seen something following it in the water and I thought no way that can't be a coyote chasing her, it was her fawn.
We had a young lady killed 2/3 years ago in Cape Breton NS by two coyotes as she was walking along a trail, other hikers found her and in another attack girl was bitten as she was sleeping.
Last week my dog and my friends dog were out playing and I think my dogs playful yips drew the attention of two coyotes as we spotted them coming across frozen lake. They came within 200yrds but stopped starred for about 30 sec and headed back the way they came.
I'm fascinated by them and they are so beautiful this time of year.
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buckybuck
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2017 10:18 - Edited by: buckybuck
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My observations tend to confirm yours, Smawgunner. My cabin is in your cabin's 'hood also, but I've never come across any evidence of coyotes acting as a pack. As a matter of fact, our house is in a suburb of one of Ohio's largest cities, and we see A LOT more coyotes (and possums and raccoons) around our house than at the cabin. Always solitary.
Now, feral hogs are another matter. Luckily, we haven't stumbled across any of them rooting around the backyard yet.
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Nate R
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2017 10:56
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Quoting: Smawgunner The more coyote you kill the more they repopulate to replace themselves which actually increases their population.
This is true. Newer research has born out a theory: Part of why they howl is to act as a local population census. They literally have measured hormonal changes in females due to the quantity of howl responses. Litters change in size based on that. So if there's not many around, her litter will be bigger.
They CAN move in pack OR solitary. Very flexible, versatile animals.
As a hunter, I don't see killing them all that beneficial. I wouldn't and haven't bothered. They do seem to be hitting the local turkey population a bit, but nature will balance itself out, I figure.
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bushbunkie
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2017 11:35 - Edited by: bushbunkie
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Glad to hear the responses to this question...all seem fair...don't bother me and I wont bother you seems to be a good code to live and hunt by... I love listening to the coyotes at night up at our cabin, its what makes cabin life great...now if a few came in too close after my Lab Retriever and wouldn't leave after a warning shot, then we would have a problem. I have a buddy who is an avid hunter and will come up with any excuse or half-assed research to kill when he is in the bush, whether its a coyote, porcupine, skunk or racoon...for no apparent reason. Don't see him much anymore.
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leonk
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2017 14:55 - Edited by: leonk
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There are at least 2 types - 'the original' western coyote (smaller) and bigger eastern cousin (interbred with eastern wolf).
Attack on humans are very very rare.
Suburban ones are the worst kind, they lose fear of people and go for cats and dogs. I walk my 2 dogs almost daily in coyote infested woods and I see the yotes few times a year, but never any trouble (knock on wood).
They don't reproduce more because you kill them, they reproduce more (bigger litters, better survival rate) when there's plenty of food.
The biggest coyote I personally shot was 52 lbs male and let me tell you, he was bigger than your typical German shepherd, just to give you an idea. I wouldn't want a pack of those on my tail...
They hunt in packs and they do lure dogs in...
They can take a healthy whitetail, esp. in a winter when crust holds them, but not the deer. They hamstring them and finish...
I've seen the tracks many times.
One fella posted on Ontario hunting forum about a game cam they had on yote den. The pair drugged in 11 fawns to feed the pups. I haven't seen the pics, but I believe it.
I personally came across half a fawn in Toronto park one morning. It was def. yote work. You should have seen some people - looking at it, puzzled, then once they realized what it was, the disgusted faces...
We def see huge decline in deer here in ON in the last few years and we do see yotes chasing deer all year, so I do think they are to blame.
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95XL883
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2017 15:59
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I'm not at kill it just because I can type guy. That said, it depends on where the interaction occurs and what the wild animal does. About a year ago I was walking my GSD when two coyotes noticed us about 25 yards away. My GSD wanted a piece of them but I kept her on leash as there had been reports of coyotes luring pets to be their dinner nearby. They seemed to hold their position as we slowly walked away. About 100 yards later, something told me to turn around. One was maybe two yards away and closing, the other was flanking us at about five yards. I shouted and stepped at the closer one and it ran into the bushes a couple of yards away. Now we were between the two of them. They kept flanking us, with them in the brush about five yards away, until we got to a well lit area. If one ever gets within two yards of me again, I'm putting it down.
If I just see one on my ground, I'll probably let it walk. But if it is stalking a rabbit, squirrel, turkey or fawn, I'm taking a shot. If I see pups, I'm putting them down. I work hard with habitat, food and water to help the rabbits, squirrels, turkeys and deer. Those are food on my table and I will do what I can so that I eat them rather than feed the yotes. So far, I'm winning on the deer and squirrels, think I'm winning on the turkey and I might be finally gaining some ground on the rabbits. (Though for now I let rabbits be. There just aren't enough of them to thin their population any.)
Last summer, I saw a skunk at 3 in the afternoon on a hot sunny day. It staggered a little as it walked. Noticing that I grabbed the rifle and put it down. Most likely it was rabid but I wasn't going to get close enough to get sprayed and I wasn't going to get close to it once it was down.
I've had one possum during the day change its direction to come straight at my wife and I. That was a mistake for the possum. I won't risk my wife getting chewed on. Had another take a look at us and turn and walk away. I let him go.
I would like to thin the raccoon herd. I can get trail cam pics with up to 20 of them at a time. The dog gone critters can empty a 200 lb deer feeder in a week once they learn where it is. They are supposed to be hard on the rabbit and turkey populations. But I'm not down there often enough to humanely trap and haven't been motivated to be there at night during hunting season. So they get to keep hunting for where I move the feeder to.
Feral hogs are only about 10 miles from my ground. I hope to never have any on my ground. If they do show up, they are a shoot on sight varmint, unless I think I can get more by building a live trap. But if they get caught in the trap, I will put them down. Any that are eating size will be butchered and taken to my freezer. Larger ones become food for the yotes, raccoons, turkey vultures and bobcat. Feral hogs are destructive and invasive. They need to be eradicated.
Neighbor dogs need to be friendly. Somebody has a big Cain Corso. Beautiful but scary animal, large and powerfully built. It runs at the sight of me. Cool! Another neighbor has a pack that has shown aggression and runs game. He is doing much better at keeping them in. If his pit ever bears teeth at me or mine again, I will put it down. I really don't want his pit on my ground. It's mean and has the potential to do a lot of damage.
As I said, I'm not a shoot just to shoot it type guy. But I won't tolerate any animal showing aggression at me or mine. A sick, i.e, rabid, animal has to be put down. I know predators have to eat but so do I. And they don't know when to stop. My ground was almost completely devoid of squirrels, rabbits and turkey when I bought it. The deer were thin. It is work creating habitat and increasing populations, especially with predators present. The squirrels are now at a huntable population, the deer are healthy, the turkey are increasing (but something is obviously hunting them as I find a couple of piles of feathers a year.)
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Smawgunner
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2017 18:36
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A couple of interesting reads:
http://theconversation.com/yes-eastern-coyotes-are-hybrids-but-the-coywolf-is-not-a-t hing-50368
http://www.roanoke.com/news/education/higher_education/virginia_tech/virginia-tech-st udy-shows-adaptability-of-coyotes/article_c9893226-ea5a-56dc-8727-13c7bbf6df74.html?m ode=jqm
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95XL883
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2017 18:51
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Quoting: leonk Suburban ones are the worst kind, they lose fear of people and go for cats and dogs. I walk my 2 dogs almost daily in coyote infested woods and I see the yotes few times a year, but never any trouble (knock on wood).
Hope you don't. It was definitely not fun having two closing in last year. A stupid neighbor was feeding them. They had no fear of me or the GSD. The neighbor finally stopped the feeding when animal control and the police threatened him with trespassing charges. (He wouldn't feed them on his property. In fact, he securely fenced his lost because he didn't want them on his ground. I used to catch him at night walking into the park with a bucket of feed for them. Grrr!)
Quoting: leonk The biggest coyote I personally shot was 52 lbs male and let me tell you, he was bigger than your typical German shepherd, just to give you an idea. I wouldn't want a pack of those on my tail... They hunt in packs and they do lure dogs in...
My GSD is 76 pounds but the yotes have thicker, fluffier fur. It makes them look bigger than they really are.
Quoting: leonk One fella posted on Ontario hunting forum about a game cam they had on yote den. The pair drugged in 11 fawns to feed the pups.
I'm told it happens but haven't seen any evidence of it on my ground. But something is hard on the squirrel, rabbit, nesting ground birds and turkey populations here. My wildlife management has been gaining on it but it is slow going.
Quoting: leonk I personally came across half a fawn in Toronto park one morning. It was def. yote work. You should have seen some people - looking at it, puzzled, then once they realized what it was, the disgusted faces...
I've seen pics and read some reports. It is gruesome when a pack hunts. Bite the loins and run the prey till it drops of blood loss.
I've seen my neighbor's dog pack run game. That was scary enough. Watched a yote flee for its life. It looked terrified with that pack after it.
But deer are pretty fast. If the pack doesn't get a bite in the loins early, chances are they won't at all. Even a two month old fawn is incredible. I've watched them walk up to 4 1/2 foot fence and clear it easily. Deer are incredibly graceful when they jump. I've seen two young fawns race through an easy quarter mile of forest just playing. I can't imagine any dog or yote catching one of those if they aren't hurt.
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Jebediah
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# Posted: 15 Feb 2017 19:24
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When I lived in N.B Canada 1996-99 there was a bounty of 40.00 for coyotes.
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 16 Feb 2017 06:58
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I will keep this short and simple. Wolves and Coyotes are destroying the deer and moose population and also killing ranchers cattle. Yes an adult deer is fast but the fawns just dropped are not. When snow gets deep or ice crusted the deer and moose can not move quickly and they become prey. Also when the wolves attach a moose calf the cow will try and protect her calf till death. Resulting in 2 moose being killed, and moose only breed every other year. Animal populations need to be kept in check. Man is the only predator of wolves and coyotes they need to be kept in check and low numbers.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 16 Feb 2017 10:46 - Edited by: MtnDon
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There is no hard and fast, no black or white answer to the question of too many coyotes, too many deer / elk / whatever. It depends on the area. Generalizations are not useful. Check with local game and fish departments.
Too many deer (or elk) kill people.Interesting article.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 16 Feb 2017 16:56
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Too many deer kill deer. They strip all the browse clean throughout the entire forest, then there is no food and they starve. So now we are letting the Mountain Lions increase in number, which limits the deer, but also causes more livestock kills, and the occasional puppy, but thus far here out west I have not heard of increases in human attacks (one per year in the whole state). Have to find a balance somewhere.
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spoofer
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# Posted: 16 Feb 2017 21:04
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elk and moose taste better than coyote
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2017 00:15
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... never tried coyote....
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manny
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2017 15:52
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Tried it Didn,t like it.
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deercula
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2017 22:16
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Better than eating CROW!........
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leonk
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2017 08:06
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Quoting: bldginsp Too many deer kill deer.
while you have a point, it doesn't apply to where I live.
We have very few deer in the last years.
Humans completely distorted the natural balance of things (if there ever was such a thing), now we have no choice, but to continue our involvement in the balancing, I'd take deer overpopulation over coyotes. As someone already pointed out, we can eat the former, but not the latter.
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Gary O
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2017 10:24
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Quoting: leonk while you have a point, it doesn't apply to where I live.We have very few deer in the last years.Humans completely distorted the natural balance of things (if there ever was such a thing), now we have no choice, but to continue our involvement in the balancing, I'd take deer overpopulation over coyotes. As someone already pointed out, we can eat the former, but not the latter.
My exact thoughts
worth repeating
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groingo
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# Posted: 19 Feb 2017 01:12 - Edited by: groingo
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I've had my share encounters with Yotes over the years and have seen them hunting together with Racoons along my stream.
The Yotes only show up several times a year mainly when they take the young out....sounds like a hell of a party in Yoteville.
I used to have a special place I would sit and enjoy my stream on top of an old root bundle for three years when one day in summer out from under this root bundle crawled out this skinny Yote pup and ran off....all those years I had been sitting on top of a Yote den and never known it.
In Washington they are considered vermin just like crows but to me, they are my neighbors and we all get along just fine....nice to have them around keeping things in balance.
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deercula
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# Posted: 9 Jul 2018 13:59
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Link to ugly coyote video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqDTtMrfsB0
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manny
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# Posted: 11 Jul 2018 19:13 - Edited by: manny
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took this little fellow just at the tail of a whitetail fawn.The two of them ran by me at 10 feet. He was holding on to the little fawns tail,
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