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Brian Ray
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2020 08:10pm
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Hello, I am currently using an Eccotemp L5 battery ignition propane tankless water heater in my off grid cabin. https://www.eccotemp.com/eccotemp-l5-portable-outdoor-tankless-water-heater/ This is rated at 1.5 gallons per minute.
This water heater has worked fine for our needs - showering, dish washing, etc., But I recently had a scary occurrence with it. While showering, the burner remained lit after water flow had stopped. When I turned the shower head back on, I got a burst of water, then high pressure steam. Luckily I didn't have the shower head pointed at myself at the time. After exiting the shower, I saw the top of the water heater glowing red and quickly shut off the propane.
Eccotemp support was helpful and offered suggestions for diagnosis and repair, but I don't think I would ever feel safe using this thing again. I would think a unit like this would have safeguards in place to prevent such a dangerous situation, but this situation proves otherwise.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a replacement? Maybe something more safe? I do like the battery ignition.
We are collecting rainwater and using a 12 Volt RV water pump to supply the heater.
Thank you
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Bruces
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2020 09:10pm
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I have the same unit and last week I had a small leak that had drained most of my water storage tank .Anyways ,I thought I had lots of water ,but after a few seconds the heater started spitting as the pump picked up enough to send it through .I did 100% notice it kept trying to relight itself when it had the bursts of water pressure .I can only blame myself (actually the pump fitting o ring is leaking ) and can only say the heater did shut off each time it lost pressure and restarted ,so I am satisfied with its safety systems .Mine is brand new in May this year ,so it might be a little different than an older model .
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FishHog
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2020 09:11pm
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They do have a safety built in but sounds like it must have failed. I test mine regularly buy lowering the flow enough that it shuts the burner off
I think it’s a fluke that yours failed and not sure any of the other units that are similar would be any different
Think your stuck with a hot water tank if you won’t trust another on demand unit
Lots of eccotemp units in service and this is the first I’ve heard of that. But in the real world anything can break
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2020 10:11pm
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My L5 is 4-5 years old, works perfectly. Perhaps some debris in the line? Anyway, like FishHog said, everybody has the darn things, if it was a common fault it'd be documented.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2020 07:05am
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If your going to buy a new one I suggest getting away from the Ecotemp brand. All these L5 L7 and L10 ratings are false. You need to find the temp rise at a specific gallon a minute. Any other rating the manufacturer states is prob just there own rating with there own specs.
I bought an iHeat from homedepot for about $30 more than the ecotemp l5. If I remember right it has nearly 2x the temp rise of the L5. I have left ours out in rain storms and have prob burned about 40lbs of propane through it.
The ecotemp you have now could be plumbed in to just supply warm water to the sink. Less chance of a full body burn there.
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Brian Ray
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2020 02:21pm
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Thanks for the replies, it sounds like these units are usually reliable and safe. My L5 is about 7 years old, I think I'll replace rather than repair. Maybe the newer units have been improved.
I'll also look into the iHeat brand. I noticed many of the different brands look identical, possibly made by the same manufacturer and just branded differently.
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Bruces
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2020 05:34pm
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I got my l5 in Canada at Walmart.ca for $135. Canadian best price I found by $50.00 at the time .
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Gary O
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2020 12:06am
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Bought, hooked up the L5.
Seems our water straight outa the well, is too cold (approx. 38°F)
Just got tepid water
Returned it
Maybe the L7 or L10 would be better (?)
Don't know, don't care
I'll make my own coil unit
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2020 08:16am
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Gary. That's why the temp rise at a specific gpm matters so much. The ecotemp brand L5 has a very poor temp rise to GPM ratio.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2020 08:42am
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Agreed. L5 is small if you are starting with cold water. My L10 will heat my water with ice in the tank more than you need
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Brian Ray
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 05:47pm
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Just to follow-up.
Purchased a Marey 10L unit https://marey.com/product/marey-gas-10l-2-64gpm-liquid-propane-tankless-water-heater/ , would only light with the faucet wide open. Returned it and took a chance on a $77.00 unit on Ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/254581185470 . It will light at about 50% faucet opening. Internals look identical to the Marey unit, but weighs significantly less. This leads me to believe it may not be very durable, but it's working OK for now.
The Ecotemp L5 did light at low water flow and the volume did suit our needs, but I wanted to run the unit indoors and vent outside, so decided against another L5.
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 12 May 2021 09:39am
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I would put an inline screener from the water supply. Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Twinkle-Star-Sediment-Attachment-Pressure/dp/B081CN82MB/ref=sr _1_5?crid=32Y2TI4I55YWH&dchild=1&keywords=water+screen+filter+mesh&qid=1620826636&spr efix=water+screen%2Caps%2C216&sr=8-5
We use rain water too and I noticed our water pressure was dropping. there is a screen at water inlet on tankless heater that had sediment build up and was cutting down the flow. The inline screen fixed it and is easy to clean/ check
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Brian Ray
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2021 11:27am
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Quoting: mj1angier I would put an inline screener from the water supply.
That's good advice.
I use a screened strainer at the water intake and a cartridge filter at the outlet of the pump http://www.camco.net/tastepure-water-filter-kdf-2-pack-llc-40045
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TranquilMan
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# Posted: 18 Oct 2021 04:39pm
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I am really interested in this topic. We have an L5 water heater and would appreciate comments on my L5 installation. We have an off-grid cabin that is boat accessible only in a remote part of Lake of the Woods, NW Ontario. We only use the cabin from mid-May to the end of September because of the remoteness. For the past 28 seasons it has been a passion project restoring an old property. Our main objective has been to keep environmentally green, simple, elegant, and tranquil. The main cabin does not have a washroom. We have an outhouse and an outdoor shower but a few years ago, I built an outbuilding a few steps away that we call the wash house. It has a sink, shower, composting toilet, storage cabinet and a small propane freezer. It has been a wonderful addition to our simple small cabin lifestyle. It has a small 3-foot square closet that opens to the outside only that was originally intended for a water heater. I bought an EccoTemp L5 thinking I’d install it inside the closet. I installed 2 – 12-inch vents, one low and one high for passive air movement. I thought this would be okay because it isolated the heater in its own space so no CO concerns. After reading a few posts a few years ago I decided to mount the heater outside on the wall until I felt comfortable with the heater. However, this year I decided to try it in the closet space because I found that in between periods away from the cabin insects, especially spiders, loved to get into it. On one occasion, it wouldn’t light so I opened it up and found that a very pregnant mouse had nested in it. The heater was totally packed with nesting material. I got the mouse out before giving birth, cleaned it up and it works fine. However, I am looking for suggestions to improve my design.
At my dock, I have a separate small solar system to power a 12 VDC Shurflo pump with a pressure tank and in-line pressure gauge. There is a filter screen just before the pump. I pump raw lake water up a hill to the cabin and washhouse. The pump kicks in at 20 psi and shuts off at 40 psi. The lake water passes through a filter before the heater, and I have a second pressure gauge at that location. As I said, it works but not without issues that I want to correct. I shut down the cabin and pulled the boat last week, so I have the winter to re-think my design.
One issue is that the in-coming water temperature varies with the season – cold in May, warmer in July and colder in September. This means I must adjust the gas and water flow settings on the heater for season. This coupled with water pressure that changes during a shower (20-40 psi at the pump) means that the water temperature also changes during a shower. My wife finds this a little unnerving.
The second issue is whether the installation location inside the closet is safe given the heat that the unit gives off and especially after reading the incident described by Brian Ray in the first post in this thread.
I have not ruled out pulling this L5 and using it for an outdoor shower and go with a better unit for the wash house. Why two showers? I love my outdoor shower located close by in a beautiful cedar grove with a fine view of the lake. My wife and her friends that sometimes visit prefer the indoor shower when it is cool, windy, rainy, dark, or buggy.
Any suggestions based on experience will be much appreciated.
TranquilMan
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FishHog
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# Posted: 19 Oct 2021 09:10am
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Anyone suggesting that it’s ok to run inside is going to violate the manufacturer’s requirements
That being said my L10 is inside my bathroom inside my cottage. For the length of time it runs to have a shower CO isn’t a realistic concern. Boiling my t kettle on the propane stove uses more propane and would be more of a concern.
And the heat coming from it is again minimal for the amount of time it runs. Now if someone is going to have a 10min shower with it running constantly that my be different. But we don’t do that so I’m not the slightest bit concerned about it
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TranquilMan
Member
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# Posted: 19 Oct 2021 05:36pm
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Thanks FishHog.
I built the wash house with windows on 2 sides so it has good air movement and light. My wife is a birder so can watch the birds from her throne (the compost toilet). Not so happy though when the shower water temperature changes. I know some people have installed them inside but, like you, understand the issue is CO and shower times are usually fairly short. I decided to put the heater and plumbing in a dedicated closet (3x3x7) that opens to the outside, not inside, which works good but the alarm bells went off when I read the initial post by Brian Ray that his heater stayed on after the water was turned off.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2021 08:32am
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Well as I said above I believe that was a fluke as it sure isn’t an issue others are mentioning
Nothing has ever been made that hasn’t broken at some time
If it worries you, you can always test it each trip to ensure it works
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2021 11:49am
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Here is one that looks like its for inside use
https://www.amazon.com/Camplux-Indoor-Tankless-Propane-Heater/dp/B0777K889Q/ref=sr_1_ 20?crid=3TG7TJLHLGQQ3&dchild=1&keywords=propane%2Bwater%2Bheater%2Btankless&qid=16347 44893&sr=8-20&th=1
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TranquilMan
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# Posted: 20 Oct 2021 01:57pm
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My Eccotemp L5 works and is really quite amazing. My main issue, as I mentioned above, is that the water temperature fluctuates because of the pressure drop from my pump down at the lake shore up the hill to the heater. I have enough pressure and flow to dirvive the heater but because the pump kicks in and out the pressure changes causing the temperature to change during a shower. I'm wondering if a second pump in-line up at the cabin would even things out? Anyway, just searching for ideas to make a good thing better.
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Daaaaaaaan
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2021 05:31pm
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A few thoughts/ideas:
1. Maybe setup an LBC/tote tank at the washhouse and fill that up periodically with lake water. Don't pressurize it though. Since you're off-grid, this gives you some flexibility on pumping from the lake when you have the most energy to spare. Might need to dump some chlorine in it. Algae might grow especially if left exposed to sun, so enclose it or paint it black. This tank will be average air temperature (or higher if sunny), which will be warmer than lake water temps (saving you some propane or enabling faster flow). Run a second pump directly at the wash house from that tank: A shurflo with negligible head like this should give you consistent and good pressure. You'll need to figure out how to power it.
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TranquilMan
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2021 10:40pm
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Thanks Daaaaaaaan, this is actually where my thinking has been going. I have an outdoor shower that I love. It is a short distance slightly above the cabin in a private cedar grove. It is a wooden shower stall with a 375 L black poly agricultural grade water tank. I fill it when needed using my generator and a 1/2 HP utility pump. I put a little chlorine in it and have never had an algae problem. This was for our first gravity water system to the cabin. My brother who is a scrounger picked up a Shurflo pump for $25 at a thrift store in Calgary and also a spare pump head for $5 and gave them to me for my birthday. I was keeping them on hand for a spare. A small solar panel and an old battery with some life would do the trick. I'll just have to make sure the tank doesn't run dry while the girls are showering.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2021 07:48am
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Wow. What a spooky story. I had an eco temp and it immediately had issues plus I stopped going to my cabin for a few years (kids were born).
When I started going again I decided to ditch it and I was debating between spending money on a really good tankless like the one I have at home - takagi. Or go the cheap route... I decided on the cheap route: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N1ZM1TS/
When I bought it I paid $170.
It works fine but not that easy to control temp. We keep playing with it but since we have rain collection - we try to not use too much water in general so we try and take quick showers so it works fine for our usage. I just finished our indoor shower (before we only had outside) so now I am right next to it and will hopefully tweak it better
At home I have a takagi. Made in Japan. Beautiful unit so if you want to really be safe and with a high end item you should go for that one.
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paulz
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2021 10:27am
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Quoting: optimistic It works fine but not that easy to control temp.
This is something I've been wondering about. Do the more expensive heaters do something different or in addition to the L5 as far as getting even output?
The L5 has done a reliable job for me for years now but output is always needing adjustment for incoming water temp, there's the hot blast when turning on and off. Or is this just normal for tankless heaters?
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FishHog
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2021 10:39am
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Quoting: paulz This is something I've been wondering about. Do the more expensive heaters do something different or in addition to the L5 as far as getting even output? The L5 has done a reliable job for me for years now but output is always needing adjustment for incoming water temp, there's the hot blast when turning on and off. Or is this just normal for tankless heaters?
temp adjustment is absolutely necessary if your input water temp changes. These are not smart units. They have a flame that is adjusted by the temp control, and a water flow setting. Both will affect your output temp. There is no temperature sensor involved.
I run my water flow at the lowest setting as its lots, then I only have to adjust the temp setting. Typically this is done once upon arrival depending on the water input temp. I have a 250gal tote, so it doesn't change much day to day unless we have a very cold night.
As for the change in temp when turning on/off, you just need to visualize what is happening. A flame under a copper coil with water flowing through it. When you shut it off (navy shower style), the water stops. The copper coil is still hot and warms that water sitting in it more than when flowing. Turn the unit back on and you get a slug of hot water coming, depending on how long your water line is, that can take a while. Then you get the cold water coming in that isn't heated as much after.
When I shower, I run the water away from me until its up to temp. Get wet and shut if off. Soap up, then turn the water back on, immediately I have the right temp water, and that is usually enough to rinse my head before the hotter slug of water arrives, I just turn that water away from me for about 10sec, then I'm back to the right temp and finishing rinsing off.
Its not like it get hot enough to burn you, but it can get hot enough to be uncomfortable for the slug of hot water. Its just the nature of the beast and something you need to live with.
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paulz
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2021 01:03pm
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OK thanks Fish. I do understand the working principle, just didn't know if the more elaborate units had some smarts built in. So I guess people in full size houses deal with the same issues.
I try to conserve water too, so before the hot water hits the shower head I wash my legs, the cold doesn't bother them. When the slug of hot comes through I hit my back, feels good. 
We've been staying 3-4 days at a time, enough that perhaps a small tank heater is viable now. If I see a good deal on one I might jump.
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TranquilMan
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2021 02:49pm
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Quoting: FishHog
"Its just the nature of the beast and something you need to live with."
Try saying that to my wife! I have. But I hear you. They say a happy wife is a happy life - I'm still working on it.
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paulz
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2021 10:02am - Edited by: paulz
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I just remembered my old motorhome had a 6 gallon LP water heater. Worked great, even temp in the shower. Seems viable for cabin use. Why not?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2021 10:47am
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I have used an RV 6 gallon water heater in my remote cabin for over 20 years. I have the Suburban that has auto electric (12 volt) starting with a switch in the cabin by the kitchen sink. I have 4 inches of extra XPS foam insulation on the 5 sides that extend inside through the wall into the counter cabinet.
Downsides:
.. a 16x16 inch hole in the cabin wall, but filled with the tank and covered with the RV metal plate/door that provides outside access.
.. costs more money than those cheapy eco-temp and their clones.
.. not as energy efficient as a quality on demand heater, but my added insulation helps.
Upsides:
.. very dependable.
.. I know what I can do with 6 gallons of heated water. No sudden cold or hot spurts as can happen with the cheapy on demand heaters.
.. it is direct vent; exhaust to outside and uses outside air for combustion. No exhaust gasses inside.
.. easy enough to drain for winter. No burner tubes where water can be trapped and frozen.
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paulz
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2021 11:26am
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Thanks ICC. Yeah I remember the cubby hole in my RV the tank sat in, and the vented door. I don't have much room in my bathroom, don't see why I couldn't build a box outside the bathroom wall.
Something else I've been pondering: If you had say a half gallon insulated tank right under the sink, tankless plumbed to the bottom of it, top to the spigot. In the morning run it until hot water came out, saving the half gallon of cold for the coffee pot or whatever. Then you would have hot, or at least not cold, water for hand and face washing for the day. Repeat next morning.
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snobdds
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2021 11:57am - Edited by: snobdds
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I just ran my plumbing like a real house, with a dedicated hot and cold going to each faucet. I don't try and do my water temp at the unit, I do it at the faucet.
I run a dedicated hot line coming out of the heater that goes to a mixing valve at the shower, sink, etc. The other side of the mixing valve has a dedicated cold.
Then I turn my unit, a marey propane unit with battery ignition, all the way up.
Trying to dial in the proper temperature by playing with the flow and flame setting at the unit, and then just running that one line to the shower is not smart. You get temp swings if the unit senses the water is too hot and shuts down.
It was not hard doing the plumbing like a real house.
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