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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 28 May 2020 10:36am
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I have an older honda generator that my father in law gave me to use as a spare. I have been letting my sister use at her RV she has at my property. In the fall I added seafoam to the gas and let it run through. Yesterday we made it back to the cabin for the first time this spring. I turned the gas on for the generator and gave it a half a pull and it started right up! Nothing like reliable equipment!!
On a side note, it's always nice when you get to the cabin the first time and start things up and everything works!! No trees down, etc! Hope everyone is as lucky this summer!
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 28 May 2020 03:17pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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I'm a whore for Honda gennies everyone in here knows that, Honda power equipment is some of the finest stuff on earth. I am a tech of 40+ years and a real connoisseur of quality and Honda meets it handily. Power equipment that is high on my list is Honda, Stihl and Kubota. Local dealer here carries all of them, that would be IMHO, the ideal biz to play with after retirement.
I get to place, equipment all starts, then I run the fenceline cutting down blow downs, some just rot and fall on fence and make repairs as needed.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 28 May 2020 08:15pm
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I rarely use my generator. Kind of hate the things. But pulled out the one I bought in 1999. Hadn’t ran it in 10 years. Stored properly back then. Put gas in it and started 2nd pull. For a cheap unit I was impressed
If I had a regular need I’d have a Honda as they are so quiet I don’t hate them
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paulz
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# Posted: 28 May 2020 08:29pm - Edited by: paulz
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I have one Honda 1,400w and one Honda powered 6,500w generator. That one I can't get to put out any voltage. It's a pity because the 13 horse Honda starts first pull every time and it's quiet. I tried a new capacitor and flashing it. But I can't understand how it works. It's brushless and has no voltage regulator, other than a box with diodes next to the capacitor on the front panel. No opens in the windings, no burnt looking areas. Mighty Quip went out of business, no manuals to be found, no one knows a darn thing about them.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 28 May 2020 08:58pm
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Paulz, try tickling the rotor coil with some battery voltage, you said brushless, but can still have a rotor coil, if the rotor has no windings, then tickle stator.
You said no regulator, it may use a zener diode to control output, AKA avalanche diodes.
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paulz
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# Posted: 28 May 2020 10:08pm - Edited by: paulz
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Thanks TMT,
A couple more photos. The stator has apparently 4 windings, the two high voltage and two more, one going to the capacitor and the other goes to the box with the diodes, see photos. That box also goes to the off/run switch. Those two windings do not connect with each other.
The rotor does have windings, and a couple diodes and resistors.
What to tickle the stator with, 12v?
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 29 May 2020 03:34pm
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OK, rotor has magnet wire, its 2 coils wired is series, there has to be a beginning and an end, its on the the side of that cooling fan. Measure it for continuity, make sure its not shorted to the frame too. Make a mental note of the wires. Tickle is with some voltage (small battery is al that is needed. Many times, a generator will rely on residual magnetism to get it going and can lose it over time. This is basically a large alternator, ie rotating field, stationary coils/stators producing current. Once AC is produced, the output is converted to DC via a diode (rectifier) and keeps the rotor energized. Output can be limited to engine RPM's, I suspect it runs at 3600 rpm, meaning stator is would with 2 poles, even if its 4 sets of windings, they are stacked I suspect. A RV generator will usually be a 4 pole and produce the 60Hz at 1800 rpm, all diesel gensets are 1800 rpm usually as they have a lower operating speed than a gas engine.
Tickle the rotor, AKA excite it, see what happens.
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paulz
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# Posted: 29 May 2020 05:30pm
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Thanks TMT. Tickle it via the capacitor wires, or the other wires that go to that diode box? They seem to be going to separate windings on the stator.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 29 May 2020 08:15pm
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Not sure without looking at it. But the other end of the rotor, there has to be a circuit. What is the model, I will try to do a quick search for a wiring diagram. Can you get a picture of the other end of the rotor?
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paulz
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# Posted: 29 May 2020 09:44pm
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It's a Mighty Quip MT-8500. They are out of business, I have searched high and low for a schematic. The other end of the rotor is still attached to the engine, how I don't know, I have taken the center bolt out. But the end you see has the diodes, the windings should end there?
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 30 May 2020 11:14am - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Paul, try this site:
https://www.marinesite.info/2014/03/how-does-brushless-alternator-works.html
explains it well. Now the wiring schematic shows a "WYE" wound rotor and stator, I am sure you dont have 3 sets of winding's, but just 2, but just ignore the 3rd leg and it should be the same. The rotor shows a full wave rectifier (6 diodes arranged, a pair per leg, flipped one to give full wave rectification) I suspect you will have 4 for 2 legs if its a full wave, or just 2 total for half wave rectification.
You will see comments on residual magnetism and also on tickling it.
I suppose you could tickle the stator (fixed part, not tyhe rotating part) also or the rotor. But rotor rotating might make it tough. You can hook battery voltage to the coils when its off and setting, this will put magnetism back into it. Also, tickle stator may kick it off too, but if it does kick off, the wires your tickling will all of a sudden produce high voltage AC, so maybe a momentary button and a small circuit breaker? A guy could get creative and leave a "tickle" button in place ie permanently mounted so if you run into this problem again, think of it like a "primer" button. 
Oh, if you wanted to remove the rotor, its on a tapered shaft I bet, so if the other end is threaded on the inside a bolt threaded into the end (larger diamter bolt then the one you took out) and a slide hammer should pop the rotor from the engien shaft.
Hey, worst case scenario, you may be abler to get another generator unit., They use basic mounting configurations, so you could scrounge up a cheap new unit or a good used one somewhere. Be a shame to let a 13HP Honda go to waste. I suspect parts are still available for that Honda engine.
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paulz
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# Posted: 30 May 2020 07:17pm - Edited by: paulz
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Thanks again TMT, you don't know how much I appreciate the help, this thing has been laying in pieces so long on my shop floor I'm forgetting where the bolts go. But today I have it in the back of my pickup, easy to work on. Hope we can figure this out. I read the web page, get the basics, still learning.
A bit of progress. I was putting the stator back on to try the tickle when my screwdriver stuck to the rotor! It's got some magnetism in it now. Wouldn't hold the screwdriver on it's own but would hold a large nut.
Edit: I made a mess of this post, hopefully you are reading it now for the first time..
OK I fired it up. Got 2vac on one of the 110 legs. Hooked up a 12v battery in place of the cap, got about 20vac, went back to 2 when I took the battery off.
Something odd I noticed.. the winding that go to the diode box, there are 3 wires coming out of the stator going to the connector, 2 brown and 1 black. But only one brown and the black continue on to the diode box, the other brown ends at the connector. The two wires that continue on to the diode box are purple. Almost seems like something else might have been in that circuit at one time Continuity between all three with a meter. The connector at the diode box then goes to one side of the on off switch, when the switch is on it's open, off grounds the mag and connects the diode box wires.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 31 May 2020 11:34am
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OK, residual magnetism is perfect, they will fire it off. I suspect output isnt what is is for another reason.
That diode box is probably a 2 phase full wave rectifier (had 4 diodes inside of it) and usually will have 2 terminals marked "AC" and the remaining 2 will be a + and a -, so the 2 legs of AC are inputs and you will have full wave rectified DC out of the others. I suspect this is all for the rotor, it should start up with the residual magnetism you have. The rectifier may not be encased, it can be just a set of diodes mounted to an insulated plate.
The wires out of stator for AC output should not go through diodes unless you are talking about the rotor (spinning part)
Most generators do not use a WYE type winding or even a V type with a center tap, its usually just a coil with 2 ends, there may be more than one coil. Is this generator a 110VAC and a 220VAC unit? If its tappedin the center, one may be for 110VAC for a 220VAC generator. I suspect the brown wires are each leg, so maybe one being used?
Try this. Measure voltage from brown leg to brown leg and from one brown leg to black leg then to other brown leg to black leg. Also check to see if any of those legs are shorted to ground.
2 purple wires marked stator, the stationary part or the rotating part? That black box may be a regulator of some sort.
I gather this is not a Honda generator, but just a Honda engine?
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paulz
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# Posted: 31 May 2020 04:02pm - Edited by: paulz
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Just got your reply TMT. Right, Honda engine, Might Quip genny.
Got an update. Last night I was perusing CL materials section and boom, like a gift from above, there's an add for generator repair:
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/grd/d/santa-rosa-generator-repair/7132998404.html
Called him this morning, he said bring it over. Took him about 10 seconds to notice both resistors in the rotor were fried. I might have noticed it myself if I knew what to look for, and my eyesight was 80/80. I figured he earned the $50/hr he charges right there but I had him go ahead and pull them out and test the diodes and the capacitor. Too bad he didn't have any replacements or could have put it back together. He seemed quite certain that's the problem.
There's an electronics store close enough that I'll check tomorrow, other will have to order online.
He seemed to think the purple wires (yes stator, not rotor) going to that diode box are to provide DC for maybe a fuel shutoff solenoid or other accessory it doesn't have. Said it probably doesn't need that even plugged in to run. We'll see.
Thanks again, more to follow..
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2020 08:36pm
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Well I soldered in the new varistors in the rotor this morning (6 bucks for a 20 pack!). Low and behold, it works! I can hardly believe it. Didn't even need a tickle. And that Honda engine still starts on one lazy pull every time. Amazing a 25 cent part makes such a big thing inoperative. And the best news is I have 18 spares!
Thanks again for the help.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2020 08:59pm
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paulz, how many items end up in a landfill over a teeny inexpensive part like that?
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2020 09:36pm - Edited by: paulz
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Many electronic things I'm sure. Not like a broken spring or bracket you can easily see.
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95XL883
Member
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2020 08:27am
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Paul, glad to hear you got it running and an inexpensiv fix to boot.
TMT, I had an LG plasma tv that died right after warranty. Parts were no longer available (less than three years old and no parts!). My oldest is an electrical engineer. With his skills and access to diagnostic equipment, he fixed it for $4 and added a couple of pc fans for cooling. That was 15 years ago and it is still running. I bet most of those wound up in a landfill.
I am with you quality equipment is worth more than we realize.
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Gary O
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2020 09:15am
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech I'm a whore for Honda gennies everyone in here knows that, Honda power equipment is some of the finest stuff on earth. I am a tech of 40+ years and a real connoisseur of quality and Honda meets it handily. Power equipment that is high on my list is Honda, Stihl and Kubota
Toy, I'm shopping snow blowers.
Your opine; Honda or Kubota?
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Popeye
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2020 10:09am
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Quoting: Gary O Toy, I'm shopping snow blowers. Your opine; Honda or Kubota?
Ariens. Hands down.
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snobdds
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2020 11:07am
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Toro makes the best snowblower, the commerical line, not the homeowner line.
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paulz
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2020 02:01pm
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Quoting: snobdds Toro makes the best snowblower, the commerical line, not the homeowner line.
Snobdds, what does you handle mean?
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2020 03:35pm
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Quoting: Gary O Toy, I'm shopping snow blowers.Your opine; Honda or Kubota?
Both are top notch. Do you have both dealers in your area? I have a buddy who bought a new tracked Honda unit, he broke a shear pin on it, so make sure you get a few extra pins, and watch for large items ie rocks etc. :D
Shear pins by design protect the rig in the event it ingest a large object.
IMHO, you will be safe with either one, guess it comes down to if you like the color red or orange.
Either has my ultra picky approval.
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Gary O
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2020 10:50am
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Both are top notch. Do you have both dealers in your area? I have a buddy who bought a new tracked Honda unit, he broke a shear pin on it, so make sure you get a few extra pins, and watch for large items ie rocks etc. :D
Yeah, best break a pin than a more expensive part.
Thanks for the reminder.
I'll go with red
Thanks, Toy
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2020 07:06pm
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Quoting: Gary O I'll go with red Thanks, Toy
I found the one he had, looks like Home Depot sells them. Man, little spendy, but like anything of superior quality, it comes at a little bit of a price.
Tracked Honda Snow Blower from Home Depot.
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Gary O
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2020 10:19pm
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech I found the one he had, looks like Home Depot sells them. Man, little spendy, but like anything of superior quality, it comes at a little bit of a price.
Yeah, I'm looking hard at the 32" one for $3200
Coastal here sells/services them
My travails with the local HD 'service' of anything mechanical leaves a lot to be desired
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Brettny
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2020 08:28am
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Dont forget when your snow blower breaks your prob getting out the shovel. I have "worked" on a 12yr old tracked Honda before. Very high quality and not a speck of rust on it but not due to owner maintence.
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Gary O
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2020 08:39am
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Quoting: Brettny Dont forget when your snow blower breaks your prob getting out the shovel. I have "worked" on a 12yr old tracked Honda before. Very high quality and not a speck of rust on it but not due to owner maintence.
Preventive maint is huge out here in the sticks
We shoveled our first year
Don't plan on doin' that again
We have a backup blower
A bit smaller, but I'd much rather walk behind it than a shovel
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paulz
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2024 05:38pm
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Bump! Old thread where TmT helped me get a generator going. Well it’s been working great until this week when I tried a 220v mig welder (220v thread going now). Welder wouldn’t power on until Gcrank mentioned a 110/220 lever on the gen which I forgot about. On 220 the mig powered up’ But when I squeezed the trigger it pumped a bit of wire, slowly, then quit, no more power, light off.
Shut of the gem, circuit breaker hadn’t tripped. Switched it back to 110, that’s dead now too. Dang, didn’t really need the 220 in the first place, but use the 110 all the time. Step backwards…
Going through this thread, I guess I will try another new varistor that got it going last time.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2024 07:06pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Check yer wiring again on that welder & plug, maybe the outlet it was plugged into also, still might be a power delivery to unit issue?
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