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tedsomango
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 12:47pm
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Hi there I was reading through these forums with great interest as I truly live in a very small cabin. I want to be able to charge my Netbook and my cell phone, and run 1 or 2 lights for a couple hours at night. I have a kerosene lantern and headlamps but I want to try something else. There is power on my property in some of the other cabins but they are a quarter mile away and I want to try solar instead. My budget is a megar 300$ I have seen harbor freight and I am skeptical.
Tell me is this possible!
i have attached pictures of the size of the cabin to make my point, it is small, but i love it!
Cheers!
Theodore
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tedsomango
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 12:56pm
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pictures
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cman47c
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 03:18pm
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I have a 14 X 24 cabin for occasional weekend use. I use 2 X 15 watt solar panels/charge controller($175 total from Cabelas) and 2 X 100 Amp-Hour deep cycle marine batteries($100 each). One would be fine for your use. I have numerous lights with 40 watt bulbs, outdoor light, fan on my propane heater, plus bigger air fan for summer, and a small vacuum cleaner that all can be powered by my 400 watt inverter($60) and one battery lasts a good 3-4 days while the other is recharging with the solar cells. I wired up standard wall receptacles plus a porch mounted receptacle that I backfeed from my inverter or small 1000W generator if I need it but run totally off solar cell/battery/inverter most weekends.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 03:35pm
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5 watt solar panal wall mart 50$
deep cycle boat battery wall mart 80 $
400 watt inverter wall mart 30$
2 . 3 watt l.e.d. light bulbs 20$
wiring and fuses ,any auto store, 30$
small charge controler 40 $ wall mart
total 250$
read the thread on this forum ,,, living without hydro ,,
for hookup rules or talk to mountain Don he is the go to guy hear for electrical stuff!!!!
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 04:13pm
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Like anything else, if you have a little bit of solar electricity you will eventually want more
I'd suggest...
45 watt solar panel
http://cgi.ebay.com/45-WATT-SOLAR-PANEL-SUPER-DEAL-109-Free-Shipping-/130502636509?pt =LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e629033dd
Charge controller
http://cgi.ebay.com/Morningstar-Sunguard-4-SG-4-Charge-Controller-NEW-/280652082569?p t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41582aed89
That plus 2 golf cart batteries will go a little your $300 budget, but you will have room to grow later. You will also have several days of reserve power at your current usage
You can get 12V car adapters for the electronics and 12V LED bulbs are available all over the internet.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 04:24pm
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Q: Where is this? State is good enough to get a handle on how much usable sunlight you get. Winter use or three season (more sun)?
Do you have a good southern exposure, one with no trees, etc to cast shadows on the PV module(s)?
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MikeOnBike
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 04:29pm - Edited by: MikeOnBike
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Quoting: Just 5 watt solar panal wall mart 50$
I would recommend putting a little more money into the solar panel to get more capacity.
$73 - 12 watt HQRP solar panel, Amazon
$83 - 15 watt HQRP solar panel, Amazon
$75 - 15 watt Sunforce panel w/7 amp charge controller (model 50033), Amazon
Make sure you get a charge controller that can handle more than just the 1 amp initial panel. There are a number of them that handle 7 amps. This will allow you to add more panels over time. You will also be able to add another battery as funds allow.
I have the Harbor Freight kit. I paid $129 for it, not $250. It is usually on sale for $159 with a coupon. That would still allow money for a battery, inverter and a better charge controller. Some say the amorphous panels deteriorate fairly rapidly but I haven't had mine very long and at the price I got it at I'm not too worried about it.
If you use the HF panels and its 12 volt lights you could do this.
$160 - HF 45 watt kit
$80 - deep cycle battery
$17 - Sunforce 7 amp charge controller, Amazon
$40 - 200-400 watt inverter, Amazon or Wallmart.
You could sub the Sunforce 15 watt w/inverter kit in to Just's Walmart list and save $15 dollars and triple your panel wattage.
There are a lot of options for a small $300 setup.
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tedsomango
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 04:33pm
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I have great southern exposure but i do live on orcas island in Washington, we get clouds and rain, and alot of it !! Summertime though we dont get cloudy for 4 months!!
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 04:44pm
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Good southern exposure is a great start.
If you are very new to solar you might want to take a look at this system sizer tool. The link to it is below. It is a spreadsheet you can download and fill in the fields to help with what might be needed. Once you have some use based ideas of equipment then you can see what you would need to spend.
HERE
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 04:56pm
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Amorphous silicone is cheaper to produce and are less efficient. Monocrystaline cells are the most expensive and efficient. Polycrystaline are slightly less expensive and efficient.
A monocrystaline pv cell will likely have an efficiency of up to 17%. An amorphous cell usually is about 2 to 4%. They do fall in output after being placed into service. Their rating should be that of the aged cell, but that may be hard to determine. (Less efficient means a larger physical sized panel is required to matvh the power output.
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tedsomango
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 05:08pm
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so if i went with a 20w mono it would be like going with a 50+ what amorphous...
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tedsomango
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 05:10pm
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what about this kit would this do it for me??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160527375895#vi-content
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MikeOnBike
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 05:13pm
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Quoting: tedsomango so if i went with a 20w mono it would be like going with a 50+ what amorphous...
No, initially they will both operate at or close to their rated wattage. Over time, as in at least several years the amorphous silicon will degrade in performance. I have heard that eventually they lose about 10% but I can't substantiate that. If that is try then a 15 watt panel would become a 13.5 watt panel. Mono crystal can be had for only a little bit more money if you shop carefully.
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tedsomango
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 05:23pm
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I can see why the Hr 45w is so convenient
price and usage...
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MikeOnBike
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 05:26pm
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The ebay kit looks like it has a 20 watt mono panel with what appears to be the accessories kit from the Harbor Freight 45 watt kit. The lights, wiring and charge controller look identical to those in my HF kit. I have read that the HF charge controller is unreliable over time. I'm not using it. I have a Sunguard SG-4 4.5 amp controller that I use with my HF panels.
Yes, reading a little further they identify the accessories as Chicago Electric which is the brand HF sells.
I think instead of this I would go with a mono panel from Amazon or similar for $125 shipped and get a better charge controller.
Do you know what kind of lights you want to run?
For your budget you are somewhat constrained to get the most bang for your buck because you can't afford all that you might use but MtnDon's spreadsheet is still a good exercise.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 05:38pm
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Quoting: MikeOnBike a 20w mono it would be like going with a 50+
In physical size; a watt is a watt no matter where it comes from. From my reading an amorphic panel from a reputable supplier should put out more than the rating when it is first placed into service. It will fall in performance to the rating, if the vendor is a good one. The total fall from its initial use to what it gives over the rest of it's life can be up to 25%. A lot depends on how valid the vendors claims are.
I have two amorphic panels I use to keep my RV batteries topped up when parked and not used. They come nowhere near being able to replenish my batteries under normal use. They give me about 30 some watts on a good day.
To put in as briefly as I can.... The most common failure people experience with their PV system is either running out of stored power in the battery and/or having insufficient recharging ability, panels too small in other words.
Without making a good estimate as to the actual needs you may be setting yourself up for failure.
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MikeOnBike
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 05:39pm
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Quoting: tedsomango I can see why the Hr 45w is so convenient price and usage...
Yes is is pretty simple. I only got it because of the half price sale. For what it is at the $130 I paid for it it was a real deal. I have used it to help keep my RV batteries charged when we go for week long campouts. It doesn't keep them topped but we don't need a genset. I'm now going to use it at our cabin/shed site with the same RV batteries to provide lights, PC charging and music.
If you can get the HF kit at a deep discount it can be a good way to pickup some wattage at a good price point. The are amorphous so expect some degradation over time. They are not badly constructed but not the most sturdy of frames. Plan to clamp them to a better mounting frame than the one that comes with them.
When we install solar for the larger cabin we plan to build I will not put in a bunch of HF kits. I will use name brand mono or poly panels and inverters and charge controllers.
You can get more information on the HF kit here:
http://solarpanelkitatharborfreight.ning.com/
Keep in mind that like most any forum the members will be more positive than negative about something they have purchased.
HF coupon Also check the main newspaper near your local HF store.
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 05:41pm
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Quoting: tedsomango what about this kit would this do it for me??
The 2 items I linked will have double the power output for less money. You will have to buy a MC4 cable set, they start at about 20 bucks
For the 8 months a year it's not cloudy and raining, you will need all the panel you can get
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 05:42pm
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The ebay module is a mono, that's good
For comparison look here...
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MikeOnBike
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 05:54pm
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Quoting: MikeOnBike For your budget you are somewhat constrained to get the most bang for your buck because you can't afford all that you might use but MtnDon's spreadsheet is still a good exercise.
Quoting: MtnDon To put in as briefly as I can.... The most common failure people experience with their PV system is either running out of stored power in the battery and/or having insufficient recharging ability, panels too small in other words. Without making a good estimate as to the actual needs you may be setting yourself up for failure.
To further clarify my point and to put it not so briefly... I very much agree with MtnDon. You may only be able to purchase one panel and one battery to start with but do the assessment to figure out where you want to get to. That way you can size the charge controller and inverter correctly from the start. Then you can add batteries and panels as funds allow without having to replace any expensive items.
Even though I bought the HF kit at a deep discount I did an assessment and knew that it would enable me to camp for 10 days without depleting my RV batteries and that it would let me use it at my shed for successive 3 day weekends at a higher use rate than camping.
You may find that one panel and one battery will get you PC and phone charging but you can also determine what it might take to add lights and plan your system.
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tedsomango
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 06:39pm
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After talking to a friend of mine I am actually considering stepping it up a bit and going with this, Tell me what you all think about charging a net book (during the day) 2 leds and a cellphone. I would get one Battery to start with and then expand to another one when it shows up or i have the time..
What other piece would you suggest for reliability besides and inverter...
i need to know a the little details that i will have to factor into the cost...
http://cgi.ebay.com/SOLAR-PANEL-90-WATT-90W-12-VOLT-45W-x-2pcs-/310308064554?pt=LH_De faultDomain_0&hash=item483fcd4d2a
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tedsomango
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 06:42pm
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possibly this
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Watt-Solar-Panel-Module-10-year-warranty-2-x-50-w-/2507487093 34?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a61c9a9d6
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tedsomango
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 06:58pm
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with Morningstar SG-4 4.5 amp charge controller what do you plug into, do thay moke other stuff that is like the one harbor freight
offers?
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 08:43pm
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The SG-4 does not have a high enough amperage rating for either of those sets of panels listed on ebay. When you connect the two panels up in parallel to use with a 12 volt system that doubles the amps output of a single panel. That puts it over the SG-4 rating. It could work for some other panel but the amps and watts have to be watched carefully.
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Rob_O
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 09:35pm
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Quoting: tedsomango After talking to a friend of mine I am actually considering stepping it up a bit and going with this
Like I said way up there ^^^ too much solar power is never enough
2 panels means you have to buy a harness to parallel the panels. In the end the 85W panel for $209 from the same vendor is a better deal
As Don said, you will also need a bigger charge controller, the 10A morningstar is about $20 - $30 more
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 30 Mar 2011 10:05pm
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tedsomango
well ted you've learned a lot today .. i'v read through it ,and it's all good , best of luck !!!
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