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Aeo
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2020 01:31pm
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Hello all, I’ve been reading through dozens of posts across many sites and well, I’m just gonna have to own my beginner level here and ask for help with setting up my plumbing. I’m going from a 275 gal IBC to a cabin w one shower & bathroom sink and one kitchen sink. I thought my order of operations would be ibc, filter, pump, tankless heater, out to sinks and shower. Do I need a pressure tank as well? For specific types of each part I’m getting great info from previous posts so I just want to make sure I’m getting my system lined up properly. I’ll be using pex and shark bite fittings and having disconnects where needed for winterizing. All pipes will be inside cabin except the one from ibc to cabin. Thank you all!
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2020 06:02pm
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Whether or not you need a pressure tank depends on the pump. There are pumps that need a pressure tank and others designed to work without one.
We owned a boat with an on-demand pump (no pressure tank) and it was a bit obnoxious in use. It stuttered a lot at low flow and we thought about adding a small pressure tank. We never got around to it before we sold the boat, however.
That was our experience, other pumps may not have the same issue.
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ICC
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2020 06:25pm
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RV water pumps work well. Shurflo is a big maker of them. Nearly every RV, eve the mega$ ones use one. They need no ressure tank. They have a builtin switch that starts and stops the pump when a faucet is opened/closed. Many off grid cabins use them.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2020 06:43pm
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My setup is identical to what you described. I have a surflo pump and no pressure tank with no issues
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Irrigation Guy
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2020 06:56pm
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Not sure what pump you will use but I would put your filter after the pump. It it is before the pump it can get clogged and starve it for water and burn up.
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2020 08:21pm
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Most of those diaphragm pumps need a filter before. They don’t handle particulate well
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2020 08:40pm
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Yes, filter before pump. The Shurflo can run dry w/o damage.
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Irrigation Guy
Member
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2020 09:56pm
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I have never used that type so sorry for the misinformation. centrifugal pumps on pressure switches you would want the filter after all that..
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 08:00am
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Biggest advice I can give is to build it so you can get to all the parts easily. There is always something that needs working on/ draining/ replacing. The system in out camper is a pain to service because it is more important to save $ and make it look good than to be able to service.
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beachman
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 09:08am
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We have a Sureflow pump with an intake screen/filter and a built-on pressure tank that keeps the pump from activating continuously. It cycles and keeps the pressure fairly constant with the pressure tank. I would recommend one but many here say they are not needed.
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 10:57am
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I have the sureflow. I believe the switch is 40# on 60# off. May depend on pipe diameter from pump to faucets . I put a quarter turn valve on the shower line to control the flow better. Especially if more than one valve is open. And a 5 micron basket filter before pump to catch any fine sands and preserve the impeller from wearing out prematurely. It is recommended to have spares on hand.
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benny8
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 11:29am
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We have a sea-flo pump in our Shamp. It is self priming and can run dry without burning up. We have a screen filter before the pump. It draws from a water barrel outside the Shamp for 3 seasons. Have a quick connect to run out of 6 gallon water totes during the freezing months. Our setup is water barrel, screen filter, sea-flo on demand pump, line out of pump tee's off to cold water on sink and continues on to On demand propane water heater, out of heater tee's off to shower and hot water back to sink. The shower has a gate valve directly hooked to hose of hand held shower wand. It works great. Nothing like a hot shower after working at the Shamp all day.
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justinbowser
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 01:49pm
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We have a Sure-Flo and although it's a great pump I will be adding a pressure tank. The output pulses which seems to confuse our on-demand propane water heater as it requires a constant flow of a minimum amount. The water will come on, spark, go off, come on, spark... All in time with the pulsing.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 02:26pm - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: Aklogcabin preserve the impeller from wearing out prematurely.
There is no impeller in a Shurflo pump. They are diaphragm pumps. As the motor turns it pushes the diaphragm back and forth. The soft valves need to be clean of debris to seal; that is why a pre-filter is a good idea. The design is why they pulse. That can be a problem with some on demand water heaters, but sometimes only at a low flow. I believe that is about the only time one needs a pressure tank. Shurflo used to offer and most likely still does have a small pressure tank available. Doesn't take up much space. Unless you absolutely need on e I would do without as a pressure tank is just another thing that needs to be drained of water when winterizing.
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creeky
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 02:59pm
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I use multiple shurflo. I found the small pressure tank to be a pain. It really doesn't do much. I put one in the kitchen to avoid extra noise everytime I turned on the tap. Meh.
In the washroom I have no pressure tank. Runs my on demand propane water heater no problem.
The run dry feature is pretty useful. Just be aware that the pump won't run dry forever. I got away with it one time. But the next time the pump burned out.
Ran for at least five hours. But ... in the end. No more pump. Should have had an inline fuse methinks.
Anybody had trouble with high voltage from batteries? I have a friend who seems to be burning through pumps. She thinks its a higher voltage (up 1v?) doesn't make sense to me. BUt ... anybody else find this?
My personal thought is "cheap chinese pumps." which she acknowledges she's using.
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Ontario lakeside
Member
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 03:49pm
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Another vote for shurflo without pressure tank. We have had our system running for several years without issue.
Below is a link to our setup if your interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=funUNu9zVLQ&t=104s
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 07:01pm - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: creeky My personal thought is "cheap chinese pumps." which she acknowledges she's using.
That's my vote. I have never, in over 30 years of using a few assorted Shurflo pumps had one burn out. The one in my bus/RV was installed about 20 years and has seen a lot of use. I did have to replace the valve housing once because it froze.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 10:18pm
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Shurflo makes a variable flow pump. I had one years ago. The thing I didn't like is it can suck up and waste a lot of water. I believe the one I had could move 5 GPM. I found out the hard way taking a shower, that it sucked so much water so fast, that I used 32 gallons and ran out of water...then had to go rinse of in the creek. Lol.
Also I put an on/off switch on each pump. Its not a big inconvenience to flip a switch when you need water. As opposed to leeching power from the batteries when you don't need to. It also is a little insurance if you get a small leak or worse when your not around. Prevents flooding.
About the cycling of the pump. You can adjust the pumps to meet your needs.
I'll stick with the shurflo revolution pump. I have a 3 pump set up. All the same pump. And keep an extra in the store room. That way if any one goes out. Grab the spare one...and good to go. I use one pump for transfer from water wagon to inside water storage. 1 for the thetford flush toilet. And 1 for kitchen/bathroom sink and shower.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 6 Feb 2020 10:32pm - Edited by: Atlincabin
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My experience is that the 120V shurflo pumps are a lot noisier than the 12V ones. I'm now using a stepdown transformer to run a 12V pump in my cabin instead of the 120V one. A tiny bit of power loss in the transformation, but worthwhile for the quieter pump.
I also like the small shurflo pressure tank in my truck camper - keeps the pump from rapid on-off cycles.
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benny8
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2020 03:27am
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Quoting: darz5150 Also I put an on/off switch on each pump. Its not a big inconvenience to flip a switch when you need water.
I did the same thing when I wired up. The switch is right beside the sink. The pump is under the sink. I also installed a inline fuse right before the hot wire entered the pump. The pump froze up once and the fuse popped, instead of killing my pump. The seaflo I have is 5.1 gallons a minute without a pressure tank. The shower head will waterjet you with all that pressure. LOL
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razmichael
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2020 08:57am - Edited by: razmichael
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Same as most of the other comments - I use a 12V shurflo, no tank and feed split the line through the on-demand propane hot water system. Works great for a small system (one shower, two sinks) but obviously not meant for multiple simultaneous use. No problems with high voltage.
The pump has a built in pressure switch (without a tank this is based on the pressure in the lines) but, similar to the concept of having a switch at each sink to power up the pump, I use Marine/RV faucets with micro switches (connected with light weight wire to a relay providing full power to the pump) so a faucet needs to be open slightly for the pump to power on. Overly cautious but avoids a situation where a line leaks and the pump run continuously until dry.
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rachelsdad
Member
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# Posted: 9 Feb 2020 07:32am
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Ontario,
What make model is your propane water heater?
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