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platinumphoenixpdx
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 12:09am
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Quoting: darz5150 This is a battery only CO monitor that we use. Batteries get changed once a year. Kidde Knight Hawk
Thank you for the tip. I'll buy this one.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 12:48am - Edited by: darz5150
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I was really trying not to get too deep into this discussion. I can only talk about our Real world experience.
We have a 600 sq. ft cabin. We have one blue flame heater in one room, and ceramic one in another. Also wood stove.
The highest CO reading ever, was 24 . Well below acceptible levels.
I originally had a Trane XE 90 furnace. It didn't regulate the temp as well as we liked. Even with a programmable thermostat.
People have talked about too much moisture and mold. Right NOW, I am sitting 4 feet away from a blue flame heater. It is 32° outside. It is 74 ° inside, and 31% humidity. Actually not
enough. We often have to use a humidifier or put a pan of water in the woodstove when it's really cold.
If you are worried about lack of oxygen. The O2 cutoff is very sensitive. Very. If it gets too much dust. It will shut the heater down.
After reading this resurrection thread. I went outside and smoked a cigarette. I have smoked for over 40 years. ( My bad for sure) then came in and checked my oxygen levels, sitting close to the ventless heater. If my O2 level is 97%, then I would think that there is enough oxygen to survive another day.
I will state again, I am not saying yay or nay, to a ventless heater. But in real life since 2006, using the heaters. They have not killed me yet. Lol
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 11:07am
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We put our CO alarm at 'breathing level', though with the little fan circulating/mixing the air in our 16x24 c/w cath ceiling it may not matter, just another one of those things that I do that 'seems' to make sense.
I find it curious that in this info-filled, safety conscious age we dont have a bunch of documentation one way or other about these.
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platinumphoenixpdx
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 03:03pm
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Well I have extreme anxiety. Don't worry, I've developed a internal flow chart over the years. So the more I research this topic and look for answers, the more I come to the conclusion, there no threat/nothing that I can do about it if there is. So I figure
-not using the heater while we sleep.
- installing 2 or more co alarm with staggered battery changes.
- opening the door to the house for at least one minute during the houses coldest time (morning, before turning the heater on most likely). IF not being entered or exited with regular use.
yeah I'll use the heater.
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platinumphoenixpdx
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 03:04pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 put our CO alarm at 'breathing level',
What does that mean? How do you do that? Please explain?
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 03:12pm
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If we are sitting around of an evening, watching a movie, games, etc. it goes on the shelf head high in a chair, if laying down it goes on the end table.
I agree that with the normal in/outs, and our Not In Any Way airtight shack we get plenty of air exchanges in awake hours.
At night I shut the infrared heater off, we are comfy, and when I get up (old guy, I do get up...), if cold enough I run it a while.
I like your idea of a pair of CO alarms; ie, 2 is 1, 1 is 0 in an equipment failure.
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platinumphoenixpdx
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 05:31pm
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Well it's a wall mounted unit. So it will always be about 3 feet off the ground. It's a dynoglow propane heater. I install batteries so that one set top/bottom would be replaced in the middle of the other sets run time.
To mitigate my anxiety, I make no quarters for safety failure. For instance I'm such a sticklers about safety checks on my truck. Tires every 90 days. Seat belts twice a year. Rust in chassis annually, Etc. other people I know don't worry about such things. But I have a very difficulty time getting in anyone else's car because of anxiety. So the safety checks let me just-get-in-and-drive. I've always been slightly jealous of people who can just take a stroll in the dark without a flashlight, if you know what I mean. It would be awesome not to worry all the time.
So I figure two alarms below and two on top, although I KNOW that is over kill, will let me move about without fear. I still can't tell how CO tends to linger in the air. Does it sink? Does it tend to collect in corners? does it concentrate in cold air pockets? Hot air pockets? etc.
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platinumphoenixpdx
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 05:35pm
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Think I'll buy an oxymeter too. Certainly won't hurt to have it laying around. My son is currently rolling his eyes at that comment. Lol. I'm glad he's so patient with me. 
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ICC
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# Posted: 18 Nov 2023 06:37pm
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Quoting: platinumphoenixpdx I still can't tell how CO tends to linger in the air. Does it sink? Does it tend to collect in corners? does it concentrate in cold air pockets? Hot air pockets? etc
I thought I more or less answered that...
Quoting: ICC CO is about the same molecular weight as normal air. Because it is produced by combustion it rises with the warn air. Then it mixes more or less evenly with the room air.
Do a search for, 'is CO heavier or lighter than air'.
The EPA recommends eye level height or about 5 ft high for CO alarm positioning. One reason many CO alarms are mounted low is that often the handiest electric outlets are low.
-izzy
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platinumphoenixpdx
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2023 01:18am
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My apologies. I meant no offense. So I guess positioning the alarms at 1 and 5 feet would be the most logical. My son has a little dog.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2023 07:08am
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Quoting: platinumphoenixpdx My apologies. I meant no offense. So I guess positioning the alarms at 1 and 5 feet would be the most logical. My son has a little dog.
The point is CO doesn't layer, you won't have harmful levels low and not high. It essentially mixes evenly so placement of detectors really doesn't matter. But do what makes you feel comfortable. We all have different risk tolerances
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platinumphoenixpdx
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2023 03:12pm
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That makes sense. Thank you.
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909
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2023 08:18pm - Edited by: 909
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My Martin direct vent was the best money I've ever spent . Couldn't imagine life without it. No mess. No smell. No waking up in the middle of the night to add fuel . No CO. No headaches. It's always the perfect temperature . And they're not that expensive, in fact compared to a traditional home heating system they are incredibly cheap to buy and run. Incredibly reliable and dependable. They just work.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2023 10:47am
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Those Martin units are nice and look very sleek. For me non vented is the smell and it gives me a headache.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2023 11:30am
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Brett, how are you with a propane grill or cookstove, any issues?
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old greybeard
Member
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2023 05:42pm
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Have used a ventless for over 20 years at camp, have used it heavily, but now 99% wood. Never had a alarm from it or a number on the detector. Let a propane light get a small burn issue, detector climbs to 50 and alarms. Clean/adjust, back to zero. So the detectors can be counted on, we run 2.
Humidity is a plus, 20 or less percent when we run the woodstove, we need the moisture,.
How is a ventless heater worse than a gas range oven?
Or lord forbid a propane fridge, which we also don't vent, and has never triggered a alarm.
Don't run one if you're not comfortable, but they and propane in general can be used safely.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2023 06:36pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 Brett, how are you with a propane grill or cookstove, any issues
No issues with any of them. I have a electric stove at home but a gas at camp and dont have a issue. My little buddy heater was only a problem after hours of use in our cabin but there wasn't even insulation in it.
I have used a forced propane torpedo heater (50k) in a garage before that was poorly insulated and still smells terrible and will give me a head ache in short order.
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ICC
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2023 06:41pm
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Quoting: old greybeard How is a ventless heater worse than a gas range oven?
I'd say the ventless heater will be run many more hours and burn many more BTU's worth of fuel than a range oven, unless you cook a couple of turkeys every day.
Quoting: old greybeard Or lord forbid a propane fridge...
The propane fridges I have used burn very little propane compared to an unvented space heater.
The CO is not always an issue. That depends on one's altitude and how the burner orifice is sized. People at higher altitudes have a greater likelihood of having a burner that is going to produce CO, unless they have rejected the burner.
A fridge can produce a prodigious amount of CO is the burner tube is not kept clean. Spiders like the small space when propane fridges are left unused for a period of time. The burner flame does not always burn away the cobwebs cleanly as my neighbors found out several years ago. They developed bad headaches and they were able to borrow a lab-grade instrument that showed how sky-high their CO levels were and that it was the fridge. Their CO monitor was old and failed.
Sometimes the extra moisture from the combustion is a good thing. But, I have been in places where water would condense and run down the window glass and frost form around door openings. I place a pot of water without a lid on the wood burner when necessary.
I, personally have never had a problem with CO or excess humidity. I, personally, also believe in not breathing in the products of combusting anything if possible. Just my preference to breath air that is as clean as possible. No candles. No oil lamps, No tobacco. No indoor appliances that exhaust into the interior air.
I switched to an electric induction cooktop when I built the new house. The cabin still has a propane range and it also has a range hood that vents to the exterior.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2023 08:06pm
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Brett, I discovered years ago that old lp bbq grills with rotting out burners (that probably threw off the 'clean burn') that I could smell the lp and the food tasted of it; uggg.... Rotting burners on those is common.
Similar with a poorly re-jetted orig ng stove to lp, smelled rich of lp.
For at least a decade Ive used an elec grill on the back deck at home, love it. Plug it in, turn to high, preheat for only 10-15min and cook.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 22 Nov 2023 07:08pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 Brett, I discovered years ago that old lp bbq grills with rotting out burners (that probably threw off the 'clean burn') that I could smell the lp and the food tasted of it; uggg.... Rotting burners on those is common. Similar with a poorly re-jetted orig ng stove to lp, smelled rich of lp. For at least a decade Ive used an elec grill on the back deck at home, love it. Plug it in, turn to high, preheat for only 10-15min and cook
I have a webber gas grill so the burners are stainless and last nearly a decade. I have a 1950s era appartment sized stove at our cabin and dont have a issue. Both the forced hot air and buddy heater I bought new and had problems with each of them at some point due to fumes.
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