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Duckgun351
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 03:23am
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I have been asking tons of questions here lately. And the help given is greatly appreciated. My next question is do I try to use well( after draining and letting refill) or just start over. It is hand dug. 25ft deep and played up in sandstone. It holds water year round. Thinking maybe spring fed. It is 300yrds up hill, so I think can start with 1in and be at 1/2 inch by time reach home. Having plenty of pressure. I know testing tells all. But is it worth time and energy.
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Sprinkler Guy
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 06:55am
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Will you install a pump? What are your water Requirements? Pipe is cheap, keep it all the same size. 1†should work depending on how much water you need.
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Duckgun351
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 07:34am
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Wife and myself. Shower, clothes, dishes ect. Can't see big usages. And no pump. Thinking gravity fed
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Brettny
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 07:37am
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Why start over? If the water is fresh its water. Improve it, flush it, shock it, flush it again and if your going to drink it test it.
If you can do gravety feed do 1in minimum. If its got to be pumped you can use smaller. 1/2in would be to small.
I recently got the water system hooked up at our property. 240v pumps from a stream to fill an IBC tote at the top of our small hill. IBC tote fills in 35min of generator run time. The water then gravety feeds down to our build site. We get really great pressure and ran 1in black poly everywhere. We used one 500ft spool and one 100ft spool. Total price with 240v jet pump, plumbing pieces, pipe and two IBC totes was under $650. Nothing was bought used becids the IBC totes.
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Duckgun351
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 07:44am
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Thanks for your input. Was stepping down pipe size just to add pressure at house. 200yrds 1inch 100yrds 3/4 inch and 1/2 in house. That way no tank or pumps needed. It was a theory.
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Sprinkler Guy
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 08:07am
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Quoting: Duckgun351 Thanks for your input. Was stepping down pipe size just to add pressure at house. 200yrds 1inch 100yrds 3/4 inch and 1/2 in house. That way no tank or pumps needed. It was a theory.
That’s not how pressure/flow works. You want the biggest pipe possible (within reason) from the source to the house to reduce friction loss. Step it down at point of use.
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 08:07am
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Maybe think of your pipe head pressure like this. Head pressure equals the amount of water in your pipe. If you stay at one inch pipe the full length you have more water or weight in your pipe. Increasing pressure.
If you had a pump pushing the water and restrict the flow you have the ability to increase pressure.
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Duckgun351
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 08:15am
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Good thought. I never looked at it quite like that. Power for pump would have to be solar. No electricity on property as of yet.
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Sprinkler Guy
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 08:29am
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Quoting: Aklogcabin Maybe think of your pipe head pressure like this. Head pressure equals the amount of water in your pipe. If you stay at one inch pipe the full length you have more water or weight in your pipe. Increasing pressure. If you had a pump pushing the water and restrict the flow you have the ability to increase pressure.
This is not exactly true. It’s not the cumulative weight of the water that gives pressure it’s the elevation. If you had a 1†pipe and 1/2†pipe both 300 yards long with 100’ of Head the static pressure would be the same (about 43 lbs). When you start flowing water is when the 1/2†pipe will show the pressure loss due to friction.
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Duckgun351
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 08:38am
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Drop on hill is approximately 1ft drop every 4 -5 ft. That's why I was thinking step down.
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Sprinkler Guy
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 08:43am
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Don’t step it down it won’t help and will only save you maybe $50
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Duckgun351
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 08:44am
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Okay tyvm
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Duckgun351
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 09:38am
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By the way. Any of you from West Virginia? Would love to meet show off property and get advise. No labor involved just talking cabins and a meal. Wife pretty good cook.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 02:22pm
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Theres a calculaton on foot of drop per water psi so there is a way to calculate the pressure your going to have at a shower head. How you actualy figure out the real drop from spring to shower head i could not figure out with out two people, a level and a long long measureing stick. I just put the pipe on the ground and hooked everything up. But 1ft of drop per 5ft sounds like you have a nice drop to work with.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 02:51pm
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One foot of water elevation = 0.43 PSI. So 10 feet height = 4.3 PSI, static pressure. Not a lot of pressure. Larger diameter pipes will allow for more flow volume, will not increase pressure.
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Sprinkler Guy
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 02:58pm
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Quoting: ICC One foot of water elevation = 0.43 PSI. So 10 feet height = 4.3 PSI, static pressure. Not a lot of pressure. Larger diameter pipes will allow for more flow volume, will not increase pressure.
^ this is correct
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 03:07pm - Edited by: Nobadays
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My math was all wrong!! Deleted the post!
Dang it! Checked my math and it was right! So here goes again, huh open this helps.... another way to look at it. Dusting off my retired Public Works Director hat!
Potential water pressure based solely on numbers given not taking into account friction loss, etc., etc.
Post #1: Well 300 yards uphill from the cabin = 900'
Post #10: 1' drop every 4' - 5'
....Let's figure 1' drop every 5'
900' ÷ 5' = 180' - of potential head.
It takes 2.3066' (2.31') of head to produce 1psi of water pressure.
So, 180' ÷ 2.31 = 77.9 psi is the potential water pressure at the cabin.
As Brettny points out the only way to know for sure is to accurately measure the vertical drop from the well to the point of use.
Since we are talking well this brings up a couple other things. I would have to imagine that you intend to pump from the well into a holding tank, then gravity feed from there to the cabin. The best option for sure.
Now we are talking pump.... a centrifugal pump will really only lift water about 15'. Some will argue 25'-27' but that would be at sea level and you will have problems! So if the well's recharge rate is sufficient to allow the pump suction to be at 15' and give you enough water to fill your holding tank, great! If not you may need to put a submersible pump in there... there are some great solar options for these!
Lastly, if indeed you have 180' of vertical head from well to cabin... and... roughly 78psi, that is really too much pressure for most plumbing fixtures. It would perhaps be wise to set your holding tank about 40' lower than the well which would then deliver about 60psi to the cabin.
Hope this helps!
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 07:44pm
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Quoting: Nobadays perhaps be wise to set your holding tank about 40' lower
Or install a pressure reducer in the line. Whatever is easier to do.
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Duckgun351
Member
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2019 07:48pm
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Thank you for advise. I will let all know what I figure out.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 25 Oct 2019 08:36am
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You could also let it gravety feed down hill to something like s float valve in a tank. Place the tank at the right elevation so you could have 45-60psi at point of use. This way you dont need a pressure reducing valve and gain capacity of water, not just whats in the spring and pipe.
If its done this was you can get away with a very small 1/2in black poly pipe to fill the storage tank.
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